nbblood

Well, I'll take a stab at this. Let me add this disclaimer. I work at the Houston area DZ that has the "A-license in a week offer" Here's another thread where I discussed a little about why I think our program is exceptional. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3520898#3520898 As for questions to ask. In no particular order.... What is availability of AFF instructors? How many available on any given day? How many jumps is your program designed for? Do you offer video for every student jump? Is there any additional cost for video? Do you have a course syllabus and study material provided to the student? How many aircraft do you operate on any given day? Do you offer a pckage deal? (We have 3 different package deals; 2-jump packages, STP or 18 jump package, and A-license or 25 jump package)(you obviously have already looked into this but leads to the next question) Are there any additional costs? I say this because our A-license in a week program and STP package program assume you have met the tandem requirements. We require two tandems before entering the solo student course. You may not have realized that. If you're interested in more details or how to minimize cost on that, PM me, I'll be glad to let you know. There may be an additional charge if you choose a packing class. Our program packages do include the ground course though. Some places have additional charges for that. How many student rigs do you have available for student use? These are some of the questions that I can think of. I definitely echo those that said to visit the DZs and check them out for yourself. I'm trying to be as objective as I can, but I clearly think that our DZ has an excellent student program. Other DZs do as well. There are different vibes. See for yourself. Keep in mind that completing the student program quickly relies upon a lot of factors. We cannot do anything about the weather. Virtually every student has been frustrated by weather conditions at some point. Instructors would love to jump too, but we just can't do anything about that. Also, you have to be committed to be able to complete the program in a week. You can't show up at the DZ at 2 p.m. and expect an instructor to be waiting on you. Early is better or at least let the DZ know when you're going to show up. Sometimes that means you have to wait until fog lifts or a load gets together or clouds pass or wind dies.....you get the picture......spend that time learning to pack if you can. It takes a commitment to progress as quickly as you are thinking. Every student is different and progresses at their individual rate. I am a firm believer that there is such a thing as too many student jumps in a day. Bodies that aren't used to skydiving tire and get sore from using muscles they aren't used to using. Tired/sore bodies and minds many times don't perform as well as they could. Pace yourself. Stay alert and feeling good physically. You will perform and learn better. I personally think 3-4 student jumps a day is pretty aggressive but doable. (depending on the student) Sometimes students need to repeat a skydive or skill. Again, it depends on the individual's performance. You shouldn't be satisfied with "getting by" and not completing a skydive satisfactorily either. It is your life and safety that the training is meant to save. I am intricately familiar with my DZs student training program. I'm trying not to "advertise" here, but I'd be glad to answer any specific questions you may have. Ok, I've rambled on long enough. Here's not only some questions to ask, but things to consider. I hope this helps. Again, I'd be glad to answer any direct questions about our program. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

The link takes you to the wrong episode. You have to watch the next one. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Yeah, there's infomercials on how to get rich overnight all the time. Stay up until 3 a.m., find the one you want, and order the book. It's that easy. Everybody's doing it. Cash is always easy and quick to get. Everybody should be millionaires by July or so. That'll be 3 easy installments of 49.99 plus shipping and handling of 19.99 for the referral. Let me know how it works out. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I'm married with a two-year old and I work there. My wife is on a 4-way team that trains frequently, so I understand the problem. We are constantly battling the issue too. Our daughter is regularly out at the DZ with us. But one of us is always grounded with her. Now you know another Spaceland jumper/staff.....with a very similar problem. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I agree with all, particularly that variety is good. I think JP and another stated that earlier. S/L is still certainly a very viable option for those short on funds that want to jump and certainly has other advantages as well. I suppose my emphasis on the other has precluded that, but yes, I agree. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I agree with all. If you consider "up-front" costs the determining factor, then S/L is definitely the less expensive option. In a lot of cases people don't want to wait to accumulate funds. They want to skydive now. I understand that. I am merely pointing out that considering value for the $$, there may be better options. I know plenty of broke-ass 18-year olds that packed their way through AFF and on to hundreds, even thousands of jumps. Sometimes it's worth considering what you're getting for your money (or your pack jobs) rather than "up-front" costs. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I know for a fact that I've given students their disc, they go home and put them on Youtube, then bring them back and I record more on them. I do finalize each chapter after recording. I still don't know how it works, but I know it can be done. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

While I understand what you're saying and why, in some cases I disagree. The STP program I described is nearly as long (in jumps) as a static line progression. And I spend SIGNIFICANTLY more time with each student on one-on-one instruction/coaching for each jump, particularly in freefall. We don't deal with 3 students at a time. We provide a detailed video debrief of each jump. I realize that many AFF programs don't offer the same. But there are many dropzones that continue a coaching/training program beyond the minimum requirements. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I'm not technical savvy, but I know we use DVDs to record AFF videos. I record them as they occur on the same disc and give it to the student that day. He/she can watch them and when he/she comes back they bring the disc and I can record more jumps on it. I don't "finalize" the disc. But I can easily watch the jumps as "chapters" on the disc at any point during the progression. As for the original topic, I still do not see any advantage for flash drives. For the same reasons already posted, I see them as a disadvantage. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I'm not saying my students are better than yours. I realize that each student is different. That's why I said "average". I am however saying that I believe our STP program is a better program than S/L. BUT...I am NOT saying that S/L is not a good program. I believe it is a viable student training program that is proven. But I believe at the end of each of these programs, a student from our STP program has a significant advantage that is well worth the extra money spent. I believe this from my experience with students from both programs. Like anything else, generalization is not the best way to judge and I realize that. But this thread seems to be comparing AFF vs. S/L. I don't know another efficient way to discuss the differences without generalizing, at least somewhat. You say that S/L has 3-4 jumps per AFF jump. I said our student program does 18 jumps and I used for comparison a S/L student and STP student, each with 25 jumps. That's 1 for 1 if I'm not mistaken. I used the A-license requirement for a means of comparison. Again, I'm not knocking the S/L program. Many, many fantastic skydivers entered the sport through that method. But I am a firm believer that our STP program is better, much better. This thread has also discussed costs involved. Yes, the STP or AFF program is more expensive, but I believe our STP program is more cost effective in the long run. I've heard the arguments both ways. I've seen and experienced both programs. My opinion remains firm. BUT, it is just that.....my opinion. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Skydive Ogden in Ogden, Utah. Wasatch Mountains on the east and the Great Salt Lake on the west. Fantastic scenery! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

My DZ uses a Student Training Program (STP) that is based off the ISP training objectives. We don't do the minimum 7 jumps and "off you go" AFF. Yes, the jumps cost more and there is more expense to the student ($2000-$2500 or so window depending on the student). A lot of people think that's the DZ pinching the students for more money. I disagree. The education that student gets for the money spent is worth it, IMHO. I have a difficult time believing that a S/L student has any greater canopy skills than one of our STP students. We spend 18 jumps with not only freefall objectives, but canopy flight objectives on every jump. Our pull altitude for the first few jumps is 5500, not 3500, so the students are actually spending more time under canopy, at least initially. Students learn to find the DZ from a long spot at the end of jump run. They don't always exit right over the top of the DZ. Our students gain experience flying in a canopy pattern, entering and flying the pattern. I'm not saying that a S/L student doesn't do this, but I believe there is something gained from flying with more than 2 or 3 other canopies in the air. Perhaps a S/L student spends more time spotting, but we also teach that. But a student learns to spot a "window" for jumprun, not just get out over the DZ. I guarantee that our average student at 25 jumps will outfly the average S/L student in freefall! Bold, yes. But that's how confident I am in the program. A S/L student will spend the $$ they saved trying to catch up. We have detailed training objectives that focus on all aspects of the skydive throughout the program. There is also "student choice" dive-flows for students to focus on specific skills they need work on or want to get better at. We provide instructor video on EVERY jump (no extra charge). We provide that video to the student on DVD. So, say what you want about initial cost. The A-license proficiency card contains "minimum" requirements. I sincerely believe our program exceeds those requirements and offers the student/customer greater value for $$ spent. If you think a S/L student at the end of 25 jumps is at the same level of skill as one of our STP students, I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I'm an Avalanche fan. The season's been over for a while now. Oh well, I suppose I'll jump on some team's bandwagon for the playoffs. It certainly won't be the Red Wings though. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Nah, they wouldn't taste good. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

One of the better DZs I've been to, the Ranch, in New York, is a club and it is a fantastic DZ. Of course the DZ I mentioned in my earlier post was also a club. Each DZ should be judged by its own merits and shortcomings, not generalized. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I know of quite a few dead deer and elk that would testify (if they could), that Rugers shoot just fine. I've never heard that about Rugers and never had a problem with mine. Their pistols are another story. But Winchester had some pretty rough years when they were making total crap. You couldn't give me a Savage (well, yes you could, but I'd just sell it......CHEAP.). Betwween my brother and me, we have 5 Rugers in various calibers and finishes. For the money, I say they're the best deal out there. Are there better choices for more money? You bet. Like I said, I'm a self-proclaimed Weatherby fan. I like the Kimber, the Browning A-Bolt, Sako, Remington 700 CDL, ah, hell, really, I like em all. I'm trying to get one of everything in every caliber! You're right about the Ruger extractor. It is very solid and reliable. Don't let how they shoot hold you up. They shoot just fine. But then there's choices, choices, choices...... Damn, I need more money! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Here's one on gunbroker.com that I found. Hurry, only 6 1/2 hours left! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124874099 Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I see you're at Spaceland. If you need some practice packing, I'll let you pack mine. If you can get it in the bag and close the container (and I'm sure you can), I'll go jump it. Then you'll know the pack jobs work just fine! Seriously, I don't think we've met yet. Find me at the DZ. I will MOST CERTAINLY help you. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

The Ruger M77 is available in an excellent laminated stock with stainless barrel. Ruger rifles come with scope rings. You'd be well under your $900 mark with that too. It's an excellent rifle for the money. I have the laminated stainless combo in 22-250. Very reliable gun and shoots well. For more money, I really like the Kimber rifles, but really, I'm a big Weatherby fan (I have 5). Edited to add photo: P.S. Ruger also has a black laminate (added another photo; it's a left-handed bolt, but you get the picture) Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I showed up at a small cessna DZ one day to make a few jumps. As I pulled up, I saw the load of skydivers pushing the plane back to the hangar from the grass runway. As I started talking to them I learned that as the plane was taking off, the pilot felt a serious vibration and aborted the takeoff. As the plane came to a stop, the strut on the front wheel collapsed. Soooo.....they pulled out their second C182 from the hangar and started "pre-flighting" it. That consisted of the pilot jumping in and attempting to start the engine. It wouldn't start immediately so they began troubleshooting it. While they were doing that I decided to check out the packing area and office and such. When I went in to the office area there was a white board that had the tail numbers of the two aircraft and their annual inspection dates recorded. The dates were over three years old. (I realize this could have simply not been updated, but come on, the data was there for anybody to see.) I went back out to check on the progress of the airplane. They had pulled a spark plug which had corroded the electrodes together with no gap. I'd seen enough. I packed my stuff and left. You mean a place like that? Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

It's a bit of a drive to any of the DZs anyway. Going to Mesquite is not really any more hassle than the others. Ok, they may have shuttles and such, but you and your buddies will be much more satisfied if you call Brad and make the trip to Mesquite. It's worth it! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Did anybody ever think that if you have a cutaway and reserve ride, the rigger is going to get another reserve repack? You know, job security. Intentionally pack a mal to get the next repack. Now, I don't know ANY rigger that I would think would do anything like that, but it could happen. As a rigger I would not pack the main to avoid this accusation were it to accidentally occur. Note: I'm not a rigger, but working on it. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

There used to be several but they all fell one by one. There were DZs at Fort Lewis, Fort Polk, Fort Campbell, Fort Bragg, and Camp Casey, Korea, that I know of. There were probably more than that. Seems like Fort Benning would have been a likely candidate to have had a sport parachute club There were actually three sport parachute clubs at Fort Bragg at times. Most or all operated military aircraft and were run by MWR programs. They had low overhead and had very good prices. All have gone away, doubtful to ever return. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I sent him an email looking for a container. He said he was "retiring from the business." He still has some stuff. If there's something in particular you're looking for, email him and ask him if he has it. He may or may not. I've bought quite a bit of stuff from buildarig and I've always been more than satisfied. It never hurts to ask and see if he has what you want. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

It's been a while since I was in the area, but last I knew Missouri River Valley Skydivers allowed students that were 16 and over with parental consent. There are a few DZs around that do, MRVS is the one that I believe does in that area. Call and check with them. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.