SabreDave

I agree that new and old jumpers can and will benefit from the experiences of those around them. So, was there somewhere in my message that said I don't ask for advice from much more experienced jumpers?? To make it clear...I do. I did not say I am beyond learning, in fact, I said quite the opposite. I said I think we are learning constantly or at least should be. In your last post you talked about the quality of the jump over the quantity and I would agree. You also said that me personally jumping without my mentors is "not wise". So how did you come to such a conclusion without knowing what my jumping quality/experience is? Without knowing anything about who I have learned from, without knowing about my background, without knowing what crossover type training/experience I have? And last but not least what kinds of jumps I have done without my mentors present. Maybe for you it is right to jump only with your mentors for 50 or 70 jumps but that does not mean it is right for everyone! Do you take issue with the way newbies in OZ learn?!? Jumping cliffs early on, PCA's from sub 200 feet?!? There are alot of people with alot of varying opinions on what is right or wrong as far as learning. To get everyone to agree %100 will never happen. My point is, it is a different path and experience for all of us. I have been enjoying the ride very much and the great thing about BASE is the personal journey and experience. SabreDave

So.....if you had really hit that freestander hard and square, impaled some sharp piece of aparatus through your body and died would it make sense to blame your mentor or whoever taught you?? Or did you make a decision to jump all on your own?! I totally agree on having a high number of skydives and to throw it out there, all BASE'ers could use some paragliding experience. I also agree that taking a course is a good way to go. Now having said that I didn't take a course. I have gotten in the old fashioned way. I did over 600 skydives, I ran ground crew and took pictures for close to 4 years for alot of BASE jumps! Alot of 3am nights where no jumps happened etc.... I paid my dues but how many are doing that now?? Sure the courses are there, the gear is there but it is getting way too easy to get into some would say..... It is all perspective and perspective is different for everybody. I suspect that there are some on here that would say I didn't progress in the right order also since 75% of all my jumps are off of "E". I believe that it has been right for me. I have had ample respect and fear for what it is I'm doing but I am now jumping without my mentors around all the time. If I choose to go and nail something technical, something a little beyond my skills and get messed up or killed it will be my fault and NOBODY else's. My mentors will mourn my death but will harbour no guilt because it would not be there fault. I agree with Jason's statement and although there should be some filtering system to keep the ignorant away......once you start jumping it is you and only you that is in control of your fate. It is this self reliance that I love, the decision process of go or no go. Assessing the site and conditions and the feeling of being all alone even when your not. I just have to totaly disagree with the statement where you said it's the instructor's fault even if it was the student's. One more thing, I don't think any of us doing this shit ever stop becoming a student!! How many jumps do you consider to not be a student anymore or to be experienced enough that the teacher doesn't get the blame? Put that in your pipe and smoke it! PS- I just got denied today off of local 800 foot+ "E" because of winds!! If I had chose to jump...well you know where I stand. Cheers SabreDave

Dude!! I can't believe you need to ask this question!? After seeing how ultra-rad I looked jumping my Gargoyle in that early morning light last Saturday, what more do you need to know? Oh yeah, Gargoyle with Troll, Gargoyle/Troll...that's the schiznit! PS- dex is right, it's generally what has been saving your ass that you will love. SabreDave

Jaap I think the lid you had when we ski_BASE'd is perfect! I use my Giro ski helmet for skydiving, skiiing and BASE. My buddy Jason made me a very slick, low profile, low snag potential camera mount for it. No chin cup but I have no complaints. I jump with a camera on most jumps. Seems just fine. Giro kicks ass SabreDave

Nice one. So friggin simple yet I didn't think of it! That just makes so much sense I don't know what else to say. Shall keep that one in mind.... SabreDave

Just watched the CBC interview with Will Gadd. For a person who only dabbled in BASE I am quite pleased with what he had to say! I don't think anything he said at all that could be taken as negative. Good work Will! Have to admit I was worried when I heard someone had spoken to the media about this incident. The active locals have been shooting down media requests by saying we would be happy to talk in a few weeks once the sensational accident was on the back burner. Edit: I will edit to say that, as a born and raised Abertan I have know the name Will Gadd for quite some time. I have found his accomplishments in ice climbing, mixed climbing and paragliding to be quite inspiring! SabreDave

I agree with Michael's response. Having witnessed first hand more than one BASE jump made by paraglider pilots here in Canada this year and in Switzerland last summer it seems to me they are very adaptable to BASE canopies. The one PG pilot who really blew my mind can fly a BASE canopy like I have never seen. On a recent ski-BASE adventure I had with said PG dude he was doing things with that canopy that I didn't know possible! I was very impressed with his canopy skills. He was one with the wing young Jedi. Now, granted he is in a caliber all his own as probably one of the most experienced PG around anywhere but he sure has it together. As far as them (the average PG pilot, ther are always exceptions) being on equal footing.....I don't think so personally. Skydiving will teach things that PG won't. Things that are neccesary to surviving and knowing what's happening during deployment etc. Now, the largest majority of the PG guys getting into BASE that I have met have done some skydiving usually after making their first BASE jumps potato style. They have done their skydiving with the goal of developing skills for BASE. This seems like a very intelligent course of action to me. In a perfect world..........300-700 skydives including a bunch of CRW, a bunch of hours under Paragliders and their related micrometeorolgy courses would be a benefit to all BASE heads. In fact I believe that experience flying all sorts of different things from Sail-planes to cessnas will all contribute. Nothing will sway me from the belief that skydiving is a very important precursor to BASE. It is and will always be! For those choosing another way....it will require some serious will power to develop needed skills before advanced object jumps. Take two BASE jumpers,one with say 700 skydives where 200 or so were CRW, another one has 1000 hours flying PG's, they both have 20 potato jumps. I truly believe that the skydiver is far more prepared to deal with the deployment and the few seconds after which as we all know is the most (usually)dangerous part of the jjump. Paragliding is a good skill to have as a BASE jumper but a whack of skydiving is invaluable! Now feel free to file what I said wherever you want! SabreDave

It's true.....he is a total ass!! (Is it a personal attack if I just agree with his statement?) LOL- just kidding. Sunday night was awesome dude! Looking forward to Friday!! C'ya then my friend SabreDave

Hey Jevto That is a generous offer! I am sure he will appreciate it during his recovery period. I will make sure he gets it straight away when it arrives!

I live in Calgary where this happened. I arrived shortly after it happened. I made the decision earlier in the day not to jump that night. NOt because of comditions or anything just because I wanted to go for a burger and beers with a lady friend. The guy in question who I don't feel like naming at this point because he is still in hospital and broken had an off-heading and hit said building. He stayed proactive and fought it all the way to the ground or roof in this case. He tried to get up to get away but couldn't due to a broken pelvis. That is his main injury but does have some cuts and bruises also but nothing too serious. Police have gear but will be returning it as they do here in Canada. No charges yet but they are coming. I am not his mentor, just a friend. I beleieve the person who taught him lives south of 49. He came to worldwide fame because the media nazis are in a feeding frenzy!! For a city of almost a million people not mych happens around here. So when something like this happens they go nuts! Also they go by what emergency vehicles get called to judge the news worthiness of the story. Because he landed on a roof they had to call high angle rescue and ladder trucks. Why you ask?? Because they were not efficient enought to take the elevator up 5 floors and walk out a door onto the roof like the EMT's did. And the bloody police copter couldn't find him with it's FLIR or 10 billion candle power spotlight for several minutes. HE is healing but it will take some time. I am just really happy he is going to be ok!!!! I have not lost a friend to BASE and I don't care to start anytime soon!! That's all for now............. EDIT: Just saw J's post. And yes, again, the media has been nuts!! I was at the hospital until 4am or so that night, Got about 2 hours sleep and then both my landline and cell started ringing and didn't stop until late last night. The media SUCKS! SabreDave

http://www.speedski.com/HarryEgger.htm The short answer is .......YES. They can go faster than a belly flyer!

Nice work dude!! Thanks! SabreDave

I don't paraglide but I believe the device beeping is a "variomoter" (sp?) and I be;ieve it is for thermalling. The tones tell you whether you are ascending or descending and how fast.. As for the control....sounds from the radio talk like rough thermals that helped to collapse the wing but that is only a guess.... SabreDave

Ha!! You have jumped -20C but we all know that living south of 49 has turned you soft!! On the hotel balcony front........ sure it counts! In fact it is a great plan. Wait until it is -20 to -30C and snowing. WE get these conditions regularly and it sometimes comes with dead still air. If you don't want to be seen on urban jumps, just follow these parameters and no one will! edited to add: YEs, Spence, I think it was colder than -20C the night of the full moon bridge boogie or at least it must have been for 1 or 2 of the 10 or so jumps that night?!?! SabreDave

Well, spring is kind of teasing us here in Alberta. WE have had some shorts and sandals weather followed by some more snow storms and well blow zero temperatures. The front range cliffs are now accessable but the big ones will need another 2 months at least. So, about a month ago I did my lowest jump ever and my first static-line. Once I got onto the catwalk I was already tripping. I have seen many jumps done from this bridge in the past, before I started jumping. This one is only jumpable in the winter because of the tall gnarly trees lining the banks. Frozen rivers make great landing strips!

I like this thread! Nice work............

Amen SabreDave

Wow cool photo and good omen. You were awfully close on the names. Ibex. a.k.a. Steinbock. Capra ibex. -Gardner AHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHA YES!!

Well Crap!! It took me awhile to figure this out the fact it was the Alex I met on my Euro-Trip, guess I didn't read the whole thread...etc............ I met Alex back in August whilst in Europe. First in Norway where we were lucky enough to be stuck together and with a few others attempting to use a big rock as shelter from a Norwegian rain storm up on the flats about 20-30 minutes from exit 5. We were all wet cause when it's 100% humidity and driving rain, even Goretex gives up! We made a break for the exit when a break appeared. We talked a bit when in NOrway but not too much, there were 50+ jumpers in the village and campground! Fun to meet so many great people at once.\ Anyway, Alex kind of vanished one day as other jumpers did and then more appeared etc... So, after 11 days in Norway myself and 3 friends left for Switzerand (L-Valley) and on our last night there we were sitting on the patio of the Horner Pub and in walks Alex. His buddy recognized us and we had a chat. Alex and friend had just arrived and we were leaving the next day. That night, Alex and I plus a couple others got into the party mode and I really let it loose as it was my last night there, we were going to leave at noon the next day. So, Alex and I parted ways some time after last call, and after the to-go cups from the pub were dead. I told him to come wake me up at 8am and we would give'er. He was more or less on time but I was far from ready to haul my ass out of bed. So, he walked to Air Glacier to get some insurance and came back. I managed to haul my sorry, hung-over ass out of bed and grab my shit. We walked into town and grabbed the train. That morning it was just me and Alex, both a little worse for wear from the night before. Clickety-clack, clickety friggin clack as the noisy little cog-train grunted its way up the mountainside. Finally we are on our way to the exit via the trail. After stopping to admire some pigs and swiss cows with REALLY loud bells, we meandered our way through the trees, enjoying the early, crisp morning air, the good conversation and the occasional burp of vapour. Then.. all of a sudden, there it was!! The vicious beast that guards those Swiss exit points! WE stopped dead on our tracks, not daring to breathe..........welll ok, we kept breathing but there we were face to face with some Swiss wirldlife. I think it is a Staubach?!?!? I'm sure someone will set this straight as I really don't know. Looked alot like our Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep but with really long cool horns!. I considered it a good omen as we watched it for awhile. Then we moved on. Finally at the exit, totally jacked, I suggest a two-way but Alex already has his plan. He decides to go first and I realize that him going first will leave me with a first. This will be the first time I will have been the last one off of something. The first time at the exit point alone. It sounded good so after some small talk about the jump Alex was ready to go. I could tell he was jacked and away he went! He hucked a nice gainer and was gone........ It actually scared me a little because I didn't know he was going for the gainer. So there I was, all alone and it did feel lonely! It was quiet and I just stood there for awhile soaking in my percieved isolation. It felt as if the world didn't exist, it was just me and this beautiful piece of rock that I was about to make love to. 3......2.......1........?.........go. I was off, it was perfect, I was free again. After a nice landing and a high five from ALex we walked back to town with shit-eating grins plastered on our faces. So, my last jump in Europe was with a new friend and I will always remember it and ALex. Thanks buddy, that was friggin' awesome!!! I guess the point to all this is....perspective! If Alex wants to push the limits I think that is his business. I will jump with him anytime and he is welcome here anytime. The fact is when talking about safety, smart, not smart etc...... 99% of the earth's population would say we are all completely insane and about as far from safe or smart as one can be. Now, we know better, we know that what we do is something special. A quote from divNswoop "do stupid stuff.........stupid stuff happens" well don't worry man, if you are ever injured skydiving, skiing, BASE-ing, downhill mountain-biking or in some auto-erotic asphyxiation accident.... there will be plenty of people to say the same thing about you or me or any of us for that matter. It was your wording! Sounds like words I would expect from a whuffo on tv. It's all perspective! Alex, my best wishes for a full and speedy recovery bro!! Gimme a shout next time your in the Great White North and are itching for some terminal walls! PS-here are a couple of frame grabs from that day

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1494766;search_string=Radiation;#1494766 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=314455;search_string=Antenna;#314455 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=623805;search_string=Antenna;#623805[url] Oh yeah, the bigger the better SabreDave

I read it beginning to end several times before I did my first jump. The things that I didn't understand I talked over with the people who would be my mentors when I was ready. As far as the way it affected me, it really did make me think alot about what I was doing and it still does. I really do think and hope I have learned some invaluable lessons from the info there. ONe thing I learned from it early on was to get out of the skydiver mindset that blindly thinks 3,000 + foot walls are safe yet many on the list are from big walls etc. A very simple point but a valid one I think!?!? There is much more in depth stuff it has made me face and come up with systems etc to avoid. On a lighter note I was just informed of a new object locally. Maybe a story in a few days!?!?/ SabreDave

Shit , this whole previous paragraph sounds like one of those typical "guy that doesn't know what he's doing trying to convince himself he didn't do something stupid" arguments. I'll crawl back into my cave now. My next jumps will be at the potato bridge again. Flame away... Cheers, Jaap Suter Jaap you are a humble man! Your form from preparation, to riding your board, your launch and pitch was all 10/10!! I wish I could say the same for myself! You did awesome dude, you were ready! SabreDave

Bridge nothing! Perfect static line tower as is!!! SabreDave

Hey Jaap! I am still buzzing and processing that jump in my mind! That was the most WAY OUT THERE(for me) jumpI think I have ever done! It was only a 2.5 hour trip for myself and C, so Jaap gets the GUNG-HO award for sure! I know i was feeling stoked and good leading up to everything but a bad fall getting to the exit point left me a little bloody and with a headache. I'd like to take this time to thank my helmet!! Was feeling more tripped on this one than any other jump. I already had experienced a large adrenalin surge and was in a bit of pain. Time to go, still jacked, maybe a little too jacked!!? The conditions were perfect but that is the first time I have heard myself say(on video) "Oh God..please..please." as I pointed my skis towards the edge and started sliding, and I had no idea I had said it until I saw the video. Which is also weird because I don't really believe in a single entity Catholic type of God. I also let out my first involuntary kind of fear yell noise in freefall as I felt myself going much more head down than I expected or wanted. Head position was ok for a BASE jump but not a Ski-BASE jump And for the record I usually only make those noises when I am climbing over railings or such! LOL So there I am, I have pitched and I am rolling down the windows and feeling a weeeee bit scared/tense and then it clicked....that feeling that always comes but at different times on different jumps for me and this time it was late. The settling into the jump and feeling golden. Thanks to the little voice in my head that said, "RELAX DICKHEAD!" and I did just before line stretch and I had a great on-heading opening but with some consequences!!! The opening shock blew both my skis of my feet!! My Bandits are gone........sniff....snifff, they went in! Laughing?? Something funnier?? I didn't notice for about 30 seconds into my flight!! I'll hike up in spring to gather the pieces up. That was my first semi-botched exit and it was quite humbling not that I wasn't already!! I have a large amount of fear and respect for this shit we do. A killer front-flip by the guy we owe for making this possible!! 2 other nice launches and my flailing goose exit. Sunny skies, low to nothing winds..........it was an awesome day!! I lost some skin, some blood and my dear old Bandits but it was worth it!!!!!!!

There is also film footage of it. I have a copy that is about 2MB shows launch and impact. Crazy............ SabreDave