sweep

Although it's important to remember the radio is just a backup and therefore it may fail. You should therefore be prepared to fly your canopy on your own if necessary. Some people even fail to hear talkdown when it's working properly - they just zone it out! Maybe I just have a boring voice If you are unsure about canopy control or any other part of your skydive ask your instructors. That said, it sounds from your first post that you have remembered the key parts of your canopy control and flight pattern. We generally tell our students to use the time down to 2000 feet to play with their canopy, practice turns, flares etc while remaining in their play area and keeping an eye out for canopies etc. Then from 2000 feet concentrate on arriving at the start of your pattern at 1500. Your instructors can give you a lot of tips for things you can practice in your play area, and it's never too soon to start learning how to control your canopy! Hope you enjoy it, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Sorry Jumpmunki but I have to disagree with a lot of what you've said.... As I understand it the insurers already know they are the only brokers who can offer cover. I also think they are doing a very good job at keeping the premium down in the circumstances. If you add up the payouts over the last few years against the total we've actually paid you'll see they haven't made a lot of money at all out of us. In fact I know that one of the reasons for the big hike last year was that they had consistently paid out more than they had taken. The fact that no other insurer was prepared to cover us, at any price, is an indication of how poor our claims history has been over the last few years. Of course that needs to be addressed and equally we all know a commercial company is looking to make a profit but I think the current insurers are working very hard to offer us a deal they can afford. Also bear in mind that if you manage to die jumping, with or without a canopy, your relatives aren't going to start getting chased by the person who's car/house/wife you crashed into. That's got to be worth something. That idea doesn't really bear out in fact though. Producing half as many or a quarter as many would reduce the cost by significantly less than the fraction as printing always gets cheaper per copy the more you print. I agree that the mag isn't all it could be, I'd personally like to see more text than at present, even if it meant losing some of the pictures. I think articles on safety, training, skill development, perhaps a more in-depth look at some of the incidents and so on would add to the mag (compare it to Parachutist or Skydiving) but as a concept I think it is a good tool and there are some parts that serve a good purpose in keeping the membership informed. What about : - You were trained by skilled, current instructors responsible to a professional body for their conduct. - The planes you jump from are all insured, maintained and converted to be suitable for jumping. They're flown by properly qualified pilots, in liason with other airspace users, using fuel which has been properly stored and checked daily. - Your drop-zones have properly qualified staff heading things up and a responsible DZ controller clearing drops, counting canopies, observing landings, ensuring off-landers are attended to and that the people on your lift are suitably qualified, skilled and kitted up for the jumps they are doing. - Your rigger has a full set of technical standards for your equipment and documentation and tools to ensure your kit remains in good condition to save your life every time you jump. - Everyone has a clear set of rules to operate to, but any or all of those rules can be changed at any time if a majority of the CCIs or Riggers feel that a change is appropriate. - Every serious or fatal incident is investigated by at least two separate groups of Advanced Instructors and Instructor Examiners, who recommend changes specific to the incident in question and looking at the broader picture to ensure that your training, equipment and DZ operations give you the best chance of survival. - All malfunctions, deployment problems, off-landings, injuries (however minor) are reported to STC and when patterns are noted these too are investigated. - Your DZ is inspected regularly by people who understand the sport to make sure their systems and operations are legal, safe and effective. And to make sure that there is a large hazard-free landing area as well as provision for out landings. That body have extremely wide-ranging powers to take a range of disciplinary action against anyone and everyone who puts people at risk, and is not driven by the commercial concerns of the drop zone involved. - You have a national body which liases with the government and other agencies in the UK and Europe to ensure the continuing development of the sport and make sure we can keep on operating around the other users of Britain's extremely congested airspace. - You have competitions to compete in with proper judging and training standards. And that's just the start of what the BPA does every day although it might slip by the attention of many people because it happens in the background. In fact just looking at that list I'm amazed we get that part of our membership so cheaply especially when you consider how few of us there actually are putting into the pot. I think, with the exception of the insurance, you'll find that the other parts of the membership haven't gone up that much in the last few years. And I think that most of us are making a drive to cut insurance claims. The new CH1-CH4 canopy handling grades are in part a response to the insurers (not to mention the CAA) getting very twitchy about the number of deaths and serious injuries under open canopies. I know that insurance is an area that the Council are working very hard on. What we need to do is really start taking responsibility on ourselves to : a) take notice of what's happening in the sport and try to reduce the number of incidents and injuries that happen needlessly. b) stop suing each other! I don't disagree that some parts of the website could be easier to navigate - although I don't think it's terrible. But if you look at what's on it I think it's an extremely useful resource. After all, where else can you find : - All the forms you're ever likely to need for anything. - The minutes of all the council, committee, STC, Riggers and Pilots meetings fresh off the press for your information, so you can see for yourself what's happening, what the BPA are doing about the things we care about, how many students twisted their ankles walking down the DZ on their RAPS course, what modifications the riggers want to make to the equipment you use...... - Various safety-related articles, info on progression, info on places to jump, contact details for all the council members and BPA staff, news and lots of other stuff. Of course it could be improved. Anything can. Should we have it? YES! Maybe I come across as naive but I generally believe the BPA does an excellent job. It costs more than other countries but there are a number of people who believe the BPA does more than them. And of course there really aren't that many of us in this country. Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

I consider myself very lucky to be learning to jump at a cessna DZ where we still are in the days of the WDI and there is no GPS used. Means I have already picked up a good grounding in the art of spotting. I am always at the door, counting, watching and ready to climb out in good time to leave at the right separation as soon as the group before me leaves. I jumped with a friend with fewer jumps than me out in Portugal over Christmas, the first group out was an 8-way (UK) and the uppers were strong. We had agreed on 10s between groups. The person organising the 8-way had the door open and was watching the spot when the green light came. He considered we were short and continued to wait. A freeflyer/swooper behind me started screaming "EXIT EXIT EXIT YOU F***ING EXIT!". The 8-way continued to wait and watch. "YOU EXIT NOW! GO GO GO!". They continued to watch. "YOU LOOK OUT AGAIN I THROW YOU OUT!". They continued to watch. Probably 15s after the green light they climbed out and left. As they cleared the tail I could see we were just coming upwind of the very bottom of the DZ. We sat in the door, my friend, obviously hassled by the shouting, started with "Ready" as I counted 4 thousand. I pulled him back and continued to count, starting the "Ready" on 8000. We exited exactly on 10 and were directly overhead halfway up the landing area. I jump a fury and made very little forward motion at all. Had we exited on my friend's count I would have been just onto the very downwind end of the DZ. Had the first group gone on green and even if I'd counted the 10s there is no way I would have made the DZ. The first group all jumped smaller canopies, yet not one of them made it more than 1/4 of the way up the DZ on straight in approaches. My opinions (for what they're worth) : -remember novice jumpers may not make much forward motion under canopy and may need to be out deeper on windy days. On a lift with lots of groups it may be worth them being further up the plane than an experienced jumper would be for the same descent. -don't shorten exit counts particularly following a larger group, 2-ways should be tracking off jumprun, on an 8-way you can guarantee people are coming towards you. -Green light is Clear Drop. If it happens to also be over the spot, ideal -there's simply no need for shouting and screaming! You can always go round or ask to go first... -And I would always check the green light again before exit - in a cessna you can hear the pilot shouting an abort, in a G92 or bigger they're a lot further away. That said I wouldn't pause to do so, I build it into my count.... Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

BPA Student (P6) membership costs £23 this year and is valid for one calendar year from date of issue or until the student progresses to freefall (like Vicki said). It is required for all solo or tandem student descents or training at a BPA centre. Once the P6 membership has expired it should be converted to BPA full membership (the cost of which is consistent from April to August, and then starts to decrease pro-rata as you get further into the membership year which runs to the start of each april). The conversion fee during November this year is around £58. Some centres may simply issue a new P6 membership if you've had a significant lapse in jumping/training and are essentially "starting again". You will need to do a full course again, and if going to a new centre it would be worth mentioning to them your past experiences and bringing along your log card. They may want to check with the previous instructor if there was some safety reason why they suggested you shouldn't come back but it will be at up to the instructor training your new course whether to clear you for your first descent. Based purely on your description of events though it sounds more like they couldn't be bothered, since if there was a safety reason they'd more likely have told you that than give you false info about insurance. You can find centres near you from the BPA website (www.bpa.org.uk) and also contact details to let them know about your experience last year if you want to go down that route. Although I would first recommend speaking to the Club Chief Instructor or manager at the DZ involved to see what they say. It may be an instructor problem rather than one affecting the whole DZ and it's often best to try and handle things locally first.. Get some thermals and book on a course this week! Best of Luck, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Lintern : Scargill : I sure hope they'll be getting another plane in for the once a month then! You'd probably be quicker flying out to Perris than going to 20K in a Cessna and by the time you got the Islander up there everyone's feet would have fallen off from the lack of blood ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

All the other places suggested so far sound pretty cool and I hope to get to many of them soon. As a UK jumper, you might be interested to know in the Skydive Algarve boogie organised by Target Skysports (Hibbaldstow). They take their two dornier G92 to an airport in Alvore,portugal and set up shop for a few weeks over Christmas and new year. Very cheap flights UK to Faro (£150 or so return easyjet, or if you go via kent with www.eujet.com you may get flights for about £30 return (I just did). There's also cheap car hire and cheap apartments (off-season holiday apartments think it's something like 20 Euro a night for four person apmnt). Also lots of people from around the world including a strong contingent of UK jumpers, instructors, WARP coaches etc. Jump prices are more expensive than the US, think they might be about 18-20 Euro to altitude... I've never been but I'm going this year as are a number of regulars from Strathallan, apparently its an absolute blast... Beach jumps and all sorts. More details on the Hib website at http://www.targetsky.demon.co.uk/Algarve.htm BTW I'm not involved with it, I just know a lot of folk that have been regularly in the past... Blue Ones, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

True story I was told at my DZ a fortnight ago when the weather was bad : There was a meet of all UK airsports a few years ago, to discuss a variety of topics primarily a response to new european legislation on airways etc. As part of this there were break-out sessions on things like crisis management, fatality procedures etc. When they were grouping up to go off and discuss these, the chairman suggested to the representatives of the aero-modellers (the people that fly remote controlled model aircraft) they might like to take a break since this session wouldn't really be relevant to them. The chair of that group indignantly pointed out his sport had had four fatalities that year already. Amazed, people asked for more information since it was apparent that for the year-to-date, aero-modelling was the UK airsport with the highest fatality count. Apparently, there had been 2 when a guy flew his plane through the hatch of a burger van at a festival, another one where the pilot had flown the plane into the back of his head, and another where the pilot had wanted to fly his plane straight at his camera to film it pulling up at the last minute. He bent down and watched the approach through the viewfinder, then as he pulled back the stick stood up to watch the rest of the plane's flight, flying it straight into his face. The representative finished off by saying "that's just the fatalities, we've had several serious injuries too!". The session degenerated into chaos. My point? Every sport has dangers, even when you don't imagine they possibly could. We can control them but they will still exist. And, at any given moment, any sport can be statistically more or less dangerous than another. Most people would imagine that building and flying remote control model aircraft was safer than going up in real ones and then jumping out - yet there was a period in the UK when statistically aero-modelling was the sport with the higest fatality count! So I don't think there can ever be an accurate or useful answer to your question, sorry. Tom's article quoted above is a much better explanation of why not than I could come up with. Best just to concentrate on minimising the risks of the sport we're in than worry about how they compare to those of the ones we're not, and accept that anything worth doing comes at a price. BSBD Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

I wouldn't entirely agree with that comment, although things may be different for military jumpers doing demos as part of military duty. Certainly under the sport rules (applying to civilians and military jumpers off-duty) holders of C licence and above on display jumps are permitted a container-opening altitude of 1500' as opposed to the normal 2000' for experienced parachutists. The reasoning behind this is to allow for hop and pop style jumps when there is a low cloudbase. Realistically therefore display jumpers should not exit below say 1600' AGL. However that is civilians - I don't know about the rules for military dropping, but I did see paras doing static line rounds out of a Herc at approx 800' AGL on a military DZ the other day : quite a sight! They do a relatively high-speed run-in to provide airspeed to get the canopy open, and the canopies are open not much below the level of the A/C, initially almost at right angles to the ground but then the para swings back under it. So it may be that on a military display people might exit 1000-1500' but I have to say I'd be surprised as I understood usually displays were done under the sport rules... BTW I know I have low jump numbers to be spouting off on stuff, but I've been doing a lot of DZ control for a display team this summer, so this is an area I'm quite well mugged up on.... Cheers and BSBD, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Quote Can anyone say "Round" May not be pretty but it is pretty survivable... Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

I guess it depends on the exact circumstances of the low pulls but I'm surprised you included those as saves. Fires, obviously, but if these are the "The jumper lost altitude awareness and deployed low. During the main deployment sequence the CYPRES fired" type then personally I'm not sure I'd consider it a save. Since the jumper now has the problem of a two-out to deal with at best, entanglement / deployment problems at worst. Although the other side to the argument is I guess that if you're throwing the pilot chute at 800' it's not a good time to be waiting for some 1000' snivelly "comfy-pack" opening and maybe getting a fast opening canopy up there is a better idea. Not really fighting for/against CYPRES just interested in people's perception of what counts as a "save". Blue Skies Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Just a theory, but I reckon something light and flat like a hook knife is going to hurt more than something heavier like a shoe or an alti. Especially if you're a bit away from it. Reason being I imagine shoes and the like will fall quite a bit faster than a hook knife / glasses / goggles etc and the speed it hits you will actually be lower the faster it falls (until it starts falling faster than you). So I reckon something like a hook knife could really sting. Just a theory though, I've lost my shoe once (on deployment) but it never hit me or anyone else. Blue ones Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

C206 (including once from 13K in Scotland with no door, boy that was cold!One of the others had damp trouser legs which froze into solid booties!) C182 Islander G92 Really looking forward to adding more to my list! One of our pilots just left to go work for BA so maybe we can persuade them to lend us a Dash 8 Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

ROFLMAO! Very cool! Have a great Birthday Chris, thanks for all your contributions to the site..... Blue Skies, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Surely you mean : Cudldle until I hear the kit up call? Unless - short intake of breath - you're spending the weekend off the dz? Quick Quick impostor in our midst ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Hey folks, One of our best pilots is soon leaving us to fly planes with seats, specifically Dash-8s (Dehavilland I think). I'm sure I've heard of someone using one as a jump plane and it would be really cool if anyone had an exit photo or something like that we could print off and frame up for him.... I'm sure he'll be back once he realises they're awful stuffy with the doors on and it's odd landing with people on board.... But it would be good to drop him a hint..... Many thanks for any help, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

The UK has become the first country in the world to offer the new Very Accelerated FreeFall course. This exciting new training syllabus was advertised on this evening's "Hollyoaks After Hours" soap on Channel 4. The course begins with a short period of ground school, however if weather conditions are changeable "we need to be ready to go at any time so we'll just do a quick review of freefall procedures". There is a short section on PLFs however students are free to wander off and talk among themselves rather than join the session, or practice the alternative HPLF (Head-first PLF). Candidates must train in reserve drills and emergency procedures until able to grab some of the correct handles and the instructor is satisfied that "oh I guess that'll do. Go get your kits on". Students will then be able to help each other kit up, then wander around the DZ without supervision and with legstraps and chest-straps flapping in the wind. They will be sufficiently trained to answer their friend's questions such as "What if it doesn't open?" "Then you have your emergency chute" "Yeah but why does the ripcord have to be halfway up my back?". After completing this training and proving they are capable of getting a minimum of one limb through the correct part of the harness on their own, they are cleared to make solo descents from 10,000 feet with five students to one instructor. Fortunately the plane is equipped with a loud siren which will sound in the event of an aircraft emergency. The instructor will then throw each of the students out of the plane right behind each other, despite cries of "look, we're headed for the sea. We jump we drown!!" During the next 5,000 feet of freefall, the first-jump students can all get together using their relative work skills and discuss their fears that the canopy may not open. They are then able to try some freefly, then deploy their canopies and practice a little bit of CReW before navigating to a safe off landing. Fortunately the course includes training in DZ management and incident procedures as the three students who landed on a nudist beach, after having two naked women help them take their rigs off, are able to locate the remaining two students who landed in someone's back gardens, dump the rigs where they landed and then get in a minibus and head into town for a beer without needing assistance from instructors/DZ controllers/Experienced Jumpers (in fact the only time anyone other than first jump students needs to be involved is for reserve drills and dispatching.) The only downside to this training system is that due to having to replace complete systems with Javelin containers on every student jump the course costs are high. This is however somewhat absorbed by the avoidance of costly static lines or AFF/Tandem instructors. And I thought "Cutaway" was badly written....... I didn't know whether to fall about laughing or shout at the TV Blue Skies, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

You'll also find the ops manual on the BPA website at www.bpa.org.uk/safety.htm. Means you can read your very own copy online or print it out : something to do at work midweek perhaps I went up to the classroom one day in the winter for a 'Jumpmaster brief' towards my IC1. The instructor taking it started off by asking us what the jumpmaster's responsibilities were. People had various guesses but no-one knew for sure. Kieran then suggested to us it might be wise in future before getting a briefing like that to actually read what the ops manual had to say on the subject Sweep ---- If in doubt, increase your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky. ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

The landing's impressive enough, he's also not mentioning that the jump also involved taking me on my first ever four way And that we went to 13k in a Cessna 206 with no door (we were expecting 5k but the club chief pilot decided to give us more as a treat), and we built the 4 way despite one of the jumpers having rigid booties caused by damp jeans legs freezing solid during the climb Thank you thank you thank you Rupert I think I may stop smiling around September...... ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

I think we may see it differently the other side of the pond (surprise surprise)

Hey Neil, wondered where you were

At my home DZ, there is an absolute maximum weight limit of 14 stone for any jump (although that's more governed by the wingloading on our student main and reserve canopies). That's in addition to advising students of the higher risk posed by a higher than average body mass index. In the early stages of the static line courses, the instructor takes the course for a jog to the bottom of the airfield and back. It means they can simultaneously warm up the group prior to beginning body position training, orient them to the DZ and point out hazards and out-landing areas, and show them how to move around the airfield safely. And at the same time the instructor can see anyone who may not be fit enough to continue with the course. I have seen people turned away for being overweight or ludicrously unfit. Sometimes they are annoyed but usually when the risks are explained to them they accept it. Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

It doesn't say "very few". It says that the group from Strathallan (where he jumped occasionally and often on Friday nights when the DZ is quieter) was "much smaller" than the group from his home DZ. But that is to be expected : people at his home DZ knew him better, he had a lot of friends there. The vast majority of people on this site who have read and discussed posts in these threads did not attend the funeral. And probably wouldn't have done even if it was 10 minutes down the road from them. Because they are angry? Or perhaps because although they know his name and a little of his story and may even feel they have a connection they didn't know him, and couldn't feel comfortable calling themselves one of his friends. The concept of people shunning the funeral has been invented by the papers because it is a good story. The truth is that his friends and family came from many places and went to the funeral. Some people didn't know him that well and chose not to go. But beside even those facts, grief and mourning is a personal affair. Of course it's important for a family to see a person's friends come to say farewell. But everyone handles these things differently and I wouldn't be comfortable being told to go to a funeral or not to go to a funeral (for anyone, close or not) by someone else. In fact I would consider it to be none of their business. And if you're interested, the newspaper article saying that everyone was boycotting the funeral was printed because the club was asked who was going and the journalist was told that it was a personal decision and not anything the club should, could or would comment on on their behalf. Please don't use articles in the Daily Record, or any other media outllet, to guess what people are thinking from the other side of the ocean. [No personal offence intended to anyone] Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

My DZ charges a fee for CCs, though I was manifesting a 35-tandem day on Saturday and was starting to consider a cash handling fee for them.

Just thought I'd say a quick hiya, I've been lurking on the dropzone forums a little while but haven't posted till today. I'm relatively new to the sport, did my first jump on the 31st May last year, did RAPS progression and got my A licence early this year (jump 27). I jump at Strathallan, the only remaining club in the UK (as opposed to a commercial DZ) and I love it. My nickname comes from the fact that during our course we were told that the DZ was a club, with no paid staff, and so the club members were responsible for looking after the place. I camped there that night and the next morning woke early with the sun. Got up, saw the hangar floor was a bit messy so I went and found a broom and started sweeping up. I'm fairly close to my B licence, just three declared landings a spot from 10K and four jumps left. Also going for my radio licence so I can start helping with DZ control sometimes when I get it, already take turns as one of the manifestors. Started my WARP a couple of weeks ago which I'm really enjoying, very cool to be in the air with someone else! Still buzzing from a jump yesterday when I went up and did a hop&pop before a friend who was doing his first freefall - blew him a raspberry as I went out the door and then sat under canopy and watched his exit. That made me smile! So, that's a bit about me, look forward to talking to you all on here or at a DZ somewhere in the future! Blue Skies, Sweep ---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

Or indeed skydiving! I have found it helpful to spend time through the week picturing dives - maybe while taking a screen break at work, just sitting back in the chair, closing eyes, chilling out and remembering a jump or imagining one. Makes the brain associate the images more with being relaxed than nervous. Also helped me to buy and watch some good skydiving videos with good music and watch them often. Then in the plane if I'm nervous I imagine the music from the film and visualise the jump I'm going to do. I see my jump as perfect and as visually stunning as the footage of the pros in the vids... Still not all the way there, but I'm much more relaxed than I used to be. Sweep