SBS

Only by trying can anything happen, and can you improve the woeful political choices. ------------- I wholeheartedly agree...the difference in opinion lies in the fact that I think that not voting in an election does not mean that I am not trying. I think that part of trying is searching for where you think your efforts are best directed. I have yet to find where I believe that mine are. I do not put as much importance on voting as you do, because I believe, as I said before, that the problem lies in what people appear on the ballot, and how they do so. By the time we are punching that ballot, the damage is done. ---------------- There is no way to tell if you don't try. The only certainty is that doing nothing will result in nothing. ---------------------- Again, fully agree. ---------------------- Maybe all you need to do is get onto the Internet and be a stubborn mule. ------------------- Isn't that what I'm doing? :) ------------------- But I think that some form of civil activity is important. ------------------- I think that discussing it as we are is a form of the 'civil activity' that you mention. ---------------------- At least we have had a mature conversation about it. ---------------------- [immature voice/] Butthead! [/immature voice] he he he --------------------- So, you gonna vote next election? --------------------- There will be 2 factors that will decide that: A) If I feel like I have enough knowledge about the issues that I am capable of making a logical decision. B) If I feel like there are people/choices on the ballot that are worth my vote. I don't know what you think about what has been said, but I think that both Rhino and I have done more than just bitch and moan about our political system. We have presented reasons to support what we have said, that I think are pretty solid. You have your points of view and we have ours. By presenting them to eachother, I think we have been doing what you have called "civil activity". Being involved is much more than going to the ballot box or not. Not going because you don't care is one thing, but I hope that we have communicated to you that for us that is not the case. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Scenario 4: Find some person you do like, and help their campaign. Work to get someone you like into office. ----------------- Refer to previous post...everything that I do will be countered 10 fold by more powerful people on the other side. Not saying that this is not an option, but this alone is not the answer to the problem ------------------------ Scenario 5: Write well-written factual articles about problems you see with a certain candidate, offering remedies and tangible solutions. You can help influence people so you have "less sucky" choices next time. ------------------ And how exactly does one in my position gain credibility and/or get his words seen by the number of people necessary to make a difference? This is a reasonable idea, but again, isn't really going to solve the problem. ----------------- Scenario 6: Run for office. You believe in yourself, right? --------------------- 2 things: A) I never said that I could be president, or that I would do a better job...I don't know 5% of what I would need to do in order to run this country...there are people that do, though, who I would believe in. Unfortunately, they are too honest to get the financial backing that they would need to make a reasonable run at the White House. B) Maybe I personally don't have the desire to be President, even if I do, in fact, have the capability. I too believe that voting is one of our fundamental liberties, and appreciate the fact that people have fought for my right to do so. That is very important to me, and I consider it to be one of the great things about living in the United States. Just because sometimes I choose not to vote, I do not feel that I am disrespecting my RIGHT to vote. I am making a decision, and that is one of the liberties allowed me...another thing that was fought for and for which people died. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

No, you haven't waived your right to that. But please be honest with yourself and say "Yes, I hate the way things are now, and I share part of the blame that they are this way." A small part, perhaps, but a part nonetheless. ------------ Agreed. Just because I can say that I believe that there is a problem does not mean that I know the answer, or can contribute what is "right". -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Last I heard, you aren't limited to voting for one of two people. Maybe Perot was just in my imagination alone. (If that's the case maybe I should write for SNL as I must have imagined tons of the episodes that I remember.) -------------- And did Perot win? The only thing that he did for that election was decide who among the front runners won. What got him there??? Money. My point still stands...when you get that high in government, 1 of 2 people will be elected. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Effort and energy can help swing votes too, and they don't cost anything besides time. -------------- My effort does cost money...I have to work for a living...if I choose to ignore that fact, I will be one of the homeless people to whom you were referring. Even if it did not cost money, my effort can be defeated by money. Phone calls cost money...for every person I convince to get on the phones and every phone call that we pay for, Corporate America will pay 5 people to sit on the phones, and have them make 10 times as many calls. For every letter that I send out, Corporate America will send out 100. For every door on which I knock, Corporate America will knock on 10. They WILL win. We are talking about the most powerful positions in the world...you think they are going to sit on the sidelines and not answer my every effort (if they even take on a large enough scale to merit answering)? There is more to this political system than voting, and to pass judgement on someone because they choose not to partake in the activity, and say that you are fighting while he/she is not lifting a finger is just not a reasonable statement. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Ok, so let me get this right... You are presented with effectively 2 choices, neither of whom you would like to see in office, because you think that they both suck. Scenario 1: I vote for person A, even though I think he sucks. Now, I can complain about anything I want, because I voted for someone that I didn't think should be in office in the first place, but was the lesser of two evils. Scenario 2: I vote for person B. Refer to rules of complaining listed in scenario 1. Scenario 3: I choose not to vote, because it really makes no difference to me who is in office, because I think they both suck. By not choosing one of them, though, even though I think he sucks, and doesn't deserve my vote anyway, I have now waved my right to express my opinion that he sucks. I'm sorry, I don't think that I will ever understand/appreciate this point of view. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

When you start referring to the effectiveness of the political process by "who blows who," I think it's safe to say that you have written off the political process. -------------- If you really look at it, just like there are legal monopolies, this is a form of legal anarchy...we don't choose who is in office, the almighty dollar chooses that. If that weren't the case, we would have political science professors, and historians, and people who really know this shit in office, not representatives of corporate America. I think that the political system itsself works, as in person A holds this position, and does this job, person B holds this position and does this job, persons C-N hold these positions and do these jobs. The problem that I see is WHO we have filling the positions. In theory, an engine works...if you build it with the wrong parts, though, there is a problem. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Especially when you start by writing off all of government and political processes as a lost cause, ie, not voting. ----------------- Not voting does not lead to the statement that you made. We have tried to explain the reasoning behind the vote vs. not vote, but you don't agree with it...that is fine. What you have done as a result is created a fallacy, linking two seperate issues together, A) not voting and B) writing off the political process. A does not lead to B. I, for one, think that voting is a very important right, but not all that useful when presented with sucky choices, neither of which you would like to see in office). -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

So, what's preventing you from getting involved in the party and being one of the blowers/blowees? Yeah, it's harder than saying, "This sucks, I'm just not going to vote." But if you're really bothered by the choices, do something about changing them besides saying there's nothing you can do. Here's another analogy for you. Uh oh...bag lock. Time for plan B. Damn, I have massive line twists on my reserve. Oh well, did everything I could do, guess I'm going in. --------- A) Not everyone is cutout for politics...it is not what everyone wants to do with their lives. There are a lot of things that are wrong with this world...that doesn't mean that it is one person's job to go fix it all. There are problems in the corporate world, doesn't mean that I am going to set a goal of being a CEO and fixing it. There are problems with disease...doesn't mean that I am going to become a doctor and try to find a cure for them. B) I'm a 23 year old college student...maybe someday I will be there trying to fix these things that I think are wrong...who knows. C) Your line twist analogy is a good one. My point is that the kicking out of line twists, while necessary, is not, I believe, done by voting. I think that when it comes time to vote, it is already too late. We do not have to give up, but we have to figure out a more effective way of kicking out of our political line twists. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

My point wasn't having the option to negotiate, but having the option to take it upon yourself to change the choices you have or present a better choice. ------------- Which is addressed in the rest of my last post. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Well that's still the Husband's problem. It could have been like this: Wife: Sweety, do you want Lasagna or Spaghetti for dinner? Husband: I don't really like either of those. How about pizza, or maybe I could throw something on the grill. You're only truly powerless if you refuse to make a choice. ------------------ Stop and think. We are not talking about a husband and wife that can talk to eachother and negotiate...it's an analogy!!! Yes, if it was a husband and wife that were sitting in their kitchen, they could negotiate. Guess what, can't really do that so much with the President, can you? Don't really have the democratic and republican parties sitting in your kitchen, do you? We are presented candidates not based on who is best for the country, but who blows who and how well, without the benefit of negotiation. Yeah, we have the primaries, but then, it is still a panel of people from who we have to choose...not like we can randomly pick someone that we think would do a good job and expect them to get more than 1 or maybe 2 votes. The front runners are always the front runners, and it's not the people who have put them there. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

you probably also fit the clinical definition of a sociopath .... ---------- True! ---------- I just think introspection, even if it makes you slightly less effective/efficient at your job, isn't a bad thing. ------------- We're not talking about a car salesman deciding not to convince a woman that she NEEDS a certain car, because the voice of reason chimed in...we are talking about war, where "somewhat less effective" may not only cost your life, but the lives of hundreds/thousands of others... -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

WIFE: What do you want for dinner, honey? HUSBAND: I don't care, whatever you feel like making. Dinner arrives... HUSBAND: Lasagna? I hate lasagna!! --------------------- Here is the scenario that is closer to what Rhino is referring to... Wife: Sweety, do you want Lasagna or Spaghetti for dinner? Husband: I don't care, you know I don't like either one. Dinner comes: Wife: Why do you look so unhappy? You said you didn't care what we had... Husband: Yeah, because both my choices sucked, what was the point of choosing? -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Um, Rhino, I really think it's important that you open up and make your feelings known...there's no point in holding back, we are all upset by this...you are welcome to say whatever it is that you would like to say. :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

It's up to you, do you love her enough to change your lifestyle or are you just selfish? ------------- I hope that was a joke... The other extreme works just as well..."does she love him enough to let him spend as much time as he wants doing what he loves to do, or is she just selfish?" Answer is: If they love eachother enough, they both will comprimise. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

(Of course, it could just be my British accent that wards off evil) -------------- It could just be that they have standards...they don't hurt women, children, or those who consider Badmitton a sport. :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Careful Quade...your geekhood is showing through... :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Um, their whole goal is to be with more and more guys (or girls) at once??? :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

When you have a relationship that is going to last, it doesn't have to be perfect, but if it is worth saving, these issues should not be issues. If you are, in fact, paying more attention to jumping than you are paying to your other, then you are making a decision that says that jumping is more important to you. If you are not really paying more attention to jumping than to her, and she is being overly sensative, then there is a problem on her end. Either way, there is a problem in the relationship that is manifesting itsself in this situation. Basically, I have always looked at situations like this as a symptom, not the actual problem. I had a relationship before I started jumping, and it lasted a couple of years after I started. The reasons for us not still being together did not revolve around skydiving. She had her things that she loved, I had my things that I loved, we each understood that, and understood that we loved eachother very much. I think that barring anything unethical, a truly great relationship can survive damn near anything. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Quote- which head do they bite? Answer- Dude! Does it really matter?!? ----------------------- I second that answer!!! :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Just remember that after sex the female mantis bites the head off the male. Ouch. ---------------- It'd better be really freakin good for me to agree to that... :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Hmmm, Paul, you may have hit on something here. :) (referring to your first post, about T vs. A) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

they're all really flat... ----------- Um, check the middle of "random wffc stuff" for the Bytch's post...um...I beg to differ with your opinion... (I'd post the picture for reference, but she'd walk around the table and kick my ass) :) I don't really care what they do...we just need more chicks that jump. :) -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

Hell JusticeIsn't that what we all want and are willing to fight for. --------------- Reread my statement in context, and you may understand...of course we are all fighting for justice, but in today's society. A murderer getting put on trial and convicted...that's justice. Making his children, grandchildren, and on, pay for his mistake should not be considered any form of justice, and that is what we are addressing here. The BEST thing that we can do at this point is to cut our losses and move on...you owe me for this and you owe me for that, is never going to accomplish anything. There are enough people on each side of this, white and black, that think LF is on crack. The likelyhood of this bill passing is not in the high percentile, from what I know, but what it is doing is stirring the pot. Moreso than anything else, that seems to be what LF is good at, and he is doing a hell of a job this time. We're not talking about a peaceful, loving man...he wants revolution, and he is doing everything he can to stir that up. I say again, "why can't we all just get along?" -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

I don't see anything in there about repressing the prior represser to get back at them or to overturn a history of racism. ----------------- That statement "getting back at them" is what this is all about...it's not a fight for equality, it is a fight to get some sort of feeling of justice being served for the mistakes of people who lived hundreds of years ago. This isn't something that is limited to the United States... Excuse my racial slurs, but I want to list examples... Here we have, for example, the word Nigger for blacks, Spic for Mexicans, and on and on... In Canada, they have the word "Newfy" (SP?) for people from NewFoundland... In Mexico, they have Gringo In Costa Rica, they have "Nica" for the people from Nicaragua In France, they look down upon people from the middle east, who immigrate to the south (don't know the word for them). EVERYPLACE has racism in one form or another, or some sort of prejudice based on sex (look back at the middle east again), age, skin color, language, RELIGION, etc. Someone will find something to bitch about, it's our nature, unfortunately. The way to solve it is not to punish those who have not perpetrated past crimes (as would be the case if I had to pay out a dime to "make up" for slavery, considering that my ancestors immigrated from Europe in the early part of the last century), but the ones that allow the racism of the past to continue today. I like what others have pointed out...even if money would make it better, who do we collect the money from??? All the white people, whether they had anything to do with slavery or not??? Is that not racist??? My question is, when was the last time that you heard someone, unprovoked, complain about there being an "all black entertainment channel", or an "all black college fund", or an "all black parade", etc.? Why is it when something bad happens to a black man, it is generally considered racism? ex...Columbine, there was one black kid killed, a number of white ones, and the dad said that he thought that his son being killed was racially motivated. Tennis star Venus Williams and another player, Irena Spirlea (SP?), bump eachother as they are crossing from one side of the court to the other...Richard Williams comes out screaming that it was "racially motivated". The stories go on...some are more ridiculous than the last one, and some are not. Point is, racism does exist...the majority can keep it alive, but the minority can as well...it will never die if the minority does not allow it to. -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...