freethefly

Honestly, I expected nothing less than your typical condescending, rhetorical reply. You are the King. It is clear that you are incapable of writing a proper argument to support your complaint. Why am I not surprised? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Yes, we're all aware that any situation in which the union doesn't save the day is a fallacy to you. Again, The King of the Eloquent Prose hits back with another pop fly condescending rhetorical reply. His swing is weak. The crowd is not impressed. It's another out for the King's team. Mike, I repaired your error. Immaterial. The question didn't ask who you'd hire, it stated that you have 2 existing crews. And I answered accordingly, concerning two crews. Why is it such a major concern of yours? What is your argument? Please explain in detail. Include a thesis statement, evidence and support, and a counterargument. Be aware that points will be deducted for misspelling, improper use of punctuation, as well as mechanical errors. I will expect your argument to be clear, as well as relevant. Your argument will contain the opinion versus argument. Be sure to include weak versus strong arguments. Failure to include these elements will result in a non-passing grade. Good luck in satisfying my requirements. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Yes, we're all aware that any situation in which the union doesn't save the day is a fallacy to you. Again, The King of the Eloquent Prose hits back with another pop fly condescending rhetorical reply. His swing is weak. The crowd is not impressed. It's another out for the King's team. My original reply was to only only hire what was needed. That is a very common practice in siding. Most large siding contractors use subcontractors to carry out the work they bid on. You know that when the job is completed, your back on the bricks, until the next one. I stand by my answer. Your opinion of my answer is meaningless. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

How is that incorporating America? Explain in detail. It is extremely funny that so many republicans will bitch and moan about having to pay for someones healthcare, but bitch and moan in the opposite direction when someone says that everyone will pay for their own. Yup, Bush must had been a Democrat disguised as a Republican when he got America into two wars. You are funny. Ever consider giving America's Got Talent a shot? Oh, what a second! You don't live in America. Does Kosovo got a talent show? Maybe you should give it a shot. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Yup, that's about all you've got left in regards to any argument. Coming from the King of the Eloquent Prose, that is funny. Considering that the extent of much of your replies consist of nothing more than condescending rhetoric. Make a response that deserves more than sarcasm, then. Answering the posts as they're written rather than changing the scenario to support your answer (as you admitted in the union thread) would be a start. Impossible to answer that which only leads to fallacy. The hypothetical question could only be answered two ways. Both conclusions led to firing employees. Either way I answered would had led to that. I don't believe that he intended the fallacy. I have explained my answer. The person who asked it did not reply, either positive nor negative. I can only conclude that he accepted my answer. Whether you accept it or not means nothing. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Oh, how they would roll like pigs in slop if only they could incorporate the country and send everyone they consider under them off to war. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Yup, that's about all you've got left in regards to any argument. Coming from the King of the Eloquent Prose, that is funny. Considering that the extent of much of your replies consist of nothing more than condescending rhetoric. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Ponty with Zappa was before my time. First saw Zappa in 1974, I think, might had been 73. Saw Ponty about a year or two later. Saw him several times in the 80s. Beach Girl, from Taste for Passion, is my all time favorite Ponty composition. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

False premise? These so called "companies" are nothing more than a name. If they are not illegal, they should be. Even though Ingersoll-Rand didn't operate under a shell, they were still able to avoid paying taxes to the U.S. by claiming that Bermuda was their headquarters. They had no office in Bermuda, only an address. In 2002 they avoided $60M in taxes, they were able to get more than $300M in subsidies and loans from the Export-Import Bank. They have continued ti exploit America since. Currently, Ingersoll-Rand is "headquartered" in Ireland. It is pathetic, the number of companies that call themselves an American company. They are not. They enjoy the protection that America affords them, as long as someone else pays for it. They flat-out refuse to fund this country. Americans, they are not. http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2009/06/ingersollrand_replaces_bermuda.html http://books.google.com/books?id=oWMZh1nqt3sC&pg=PA15870&lpg=PA15870&dq=how+ingersoll+rand+avoids+paying+U.S.+taxes&source=bl&ots=rzI9yk-9XZ&sig=90THZmS7yXHPj2mts1t6xh6YRJw&hl=en&ei=m0VUTpGuK6izsAKA4NXFBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false From the link: "Or let's examine corporate expatriate Ingersoll-Rand, formerly of New Jersey, and now also in Bermuda. Ingersoll-Rand earned as much last year in U.S. defense and homeland security federal contracts as it avoids in U.S. taxes annually merely by renting a mailbox in Bermuda and calling it ‘home.' If Ingersoll-Rand paid its U.S. tax bill, Congress could easily afford to fund the Cyberspace Warning Intelligence Network, estimated to cost $30 million, or it could also buy 400,000 gas masks for American citizens." http://guerillastickers.com/corporate_welfare.htm I send letters on a number of issues, that concern me, to my representatives. I have a whole list. As for China taxing so called U.S. companies? They should. They should, also hold them responsible for everything from healthcare to environmental issues. They should hold them responsible for everything and anything that they would be held to here in the U.S.. They should be held accountable for the exploitation of people in sweatshops throughout China. If you are about to balk, just Google "sweatshops in China'. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

That is kind of funny (morbid, but funny.) Seriously, I would consider any group that touts a religion or any type of belief as their motivation to cause harm on any scale to be a terrorist group. From words of hate to weapons of destruction the aim is the same, to instil a sense of fear, That is terrorism. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Nice spin attempt - gotta love the lame attempt to tie it to Cheny, too. Unfortunately for your argument, it's legal - just like the Indian tribes in the other thread. It's legal? just like all the people receiving welfare, food stamps, and unemployment. Funny how the Right calls all of these people greedy and lazy, yet when corporations do it, it's legal. If it were a US company, I would agree - unfortunately for your little diatribe, it's not. How can you defend that which is nothing more than a file on a computer in the Cayman Islands and used to evade taxes? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Christian and Hindu extremist groups have been active in India for a very long number of years. We just don't hear about them. You know, out of sight, out of mind. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Lame? I'm sure there are just as many Islamic extremist attempts that are not reported. Have you heard of the group 'Repent Amarillo'? They are very real and promote violence, yet not in the national media. The KKK is still very much active, not so much in the national media. Just because you don't hear about them does not mean they are not plotting and committing small scale terror attacks. Westboro Church commit psychological terror attacks each time they show up at funerals. Funny how they hide behind 'freedom of speech' to commit these acts. Maybe you only consider it to be terror if a bomb goes off? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If able to carry out their plans, the Hutaree Christian militia would had surely killed as many as they could. They were arrested in March, 2010. Without doubt, there are many just like them waiting for the opportunity to attack. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/TheLaw/michigan-christian-militia-hutaree-targeted-law-enforcement/story?id=10228716 http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0329/Hutaree-militia-arrests-point-to-tripling-of-militias-since-2008 Now, I'm sure that one certain person will balk that March 29, 2010 is more than the one year time frame that Rushmc mentioned. I'm sure that there as been more than just the Hutaree group since that has been arrested. I'm sure there is a lot that we do not hear about. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Did you catch the news item when Osama was killed, where some old line Reaganites were claiming some of Reagan's past actions had a hand in bringing him down - when in actuality Reagan funded their very becoming. To be fair, U.S. involvement began in 1979 under Carter. It amounted to small scale covert operations to assist the mujahideen's opposition to the Soviets. Under Reagan the funnel of cash and the arming of the mujahideen began with the assistance of Charlie Wilson (D), and Michael Vickers (CIA). The arming of jihad fighters was known as 'Operation Cyclone'. Reagan, affectionately, referred to the jihad fighters as "Freedom Fighter". They were anything but. The 'Reagan Doctrine' is responsible for arming and training rebels in several countries. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

No, but there are plenty of American Christian militias (terrorist) willing to do the same. The difference is the American Christian terrorist hides behind the Bill of Rights and their bible. If not caught, militias, such as the Hutaree and Gods Army, will surely kill other Americans in the name of their god. Anyone who does not believe that groups like the Westboro Church (which can drastically escalate their tactics) is not extremely dangerous, are as loony as the groups alone. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The Torture Never Stops from Zoot Allures is amongst my favorites. Last time I saw Zappa was during bootcamp liberty, San Diego, 1980. Acid and Zappa. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw05xgp5Gw8 Should, also, add 'Black Napkins'. I think it is amongst the best of jazz fusion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI5JQFdv8Fs "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Made your point? I did no such thing as you have never made a point (GM management has admitted they were to blame). The most you are capable of doing is poorly formulating one or two lines of age old rhetoric. Try investigating what brought GM to the edge. Start by avoiding right wing and left wing websites and focus on unbiased analysis. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

"You people"! That's insulting. Besides, I used it first to lump all of "you people" together. Has originality died, here at SC? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

New hires at GM start at $14.00 an hour. Overtimes does not kick in until a member works a straight total of 40 hours. Their retirement package is not the same as veteran employees. It was the UAW that pushed the new package. 75% of the membership voted for it. Laying complete blame on the UAW is nothing more than scapegoating from those who have an extreme hatred towards unions. The UAW did admit that the legacy retirement package is a burden. They offered a different deal and it was accepted by GM and the membership. That alone should had removed close to $2000.00 off the price of a car. GM looked, long and hard, at how Honda and Toyota mange their business. They made changes in the divisions, reducing them to four, GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and Buick. With the support of the UAW, they cut the workforce dramatically, with buyouts, The buyouts allow for new hire, when needed, at the new pay scale starting at $14.00 per hour. They're also paying attention to what people want. The new Camaro is their best selling car in years. They should had never ended the line. Furthermore, they should had done a retro muscle car Camaro instead. Also, instead of ending the Pontiac brand, they would had done well to close Buick and introduced a retro muscle car Firebird. That would had grabbed the devotion of 60 era Firebird lovers, particularly baby boomers that are retiring and want a part of their youth back. Retro Camaros and Firebirds would be awesome and could had grabbed a greater share of the market. That is a management mistake as were the mistakes of the past. The UAW shares some blame, but GM management deserves to shoulder the greater burden of fault. Their management style stayed the same for near 40 years. They failed to keep an eye on the competition and the competition zoomed right past them. Thanks should be given to the union for pushing the concessions to their members. Thanks should be given to the 75% that agreed. Thanks should be given to the taxpayers for the bailout that saved near 1 million jobs nationwide. It is shortsighted, ignorant, and outright bias hatred toward unions to say they are to blame 100% as GM has admitted fault. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

That is ridiculous. Of course they are in the same boat. The better the company does the better they all do. If the ship goes down, they all go with it. A large number of union people are also stockholders. Hmmm... I do believe that would make them part owners of the company. So a lot of them are in the same boat. The better the company does. The better they all do. Hussmann employees agreed to concessions during down turns. Why wouldn't they when near every one in there were stockholders. The same went with UAW members. 74% of the membership voted for concessions that will save $1.3B per year in labor cost. Do you honestly believe that no UAW member owns stock in the company he/she works for? If the company tanked, their boat is on the bottom of the ocean. UAW members at Ford did the same thing. The majority voted for it. That is the democratic process in action. Those who do not like it? Oh well, the majority rules. That is absolutely ridiculous. Do you honestly believe that the majority of people are so stupid that they do not care if the company makes a profit? What caused GM to nearly sink was not entirely the union. The union had a very small share of the blame. The vast majority of blame belonged to management. GM has admitted to it. They also admitted that lack of innovation, cars that they could not sell, was part of their problem. Ending models that people did want. They have faulted CAFE legislation from 1975 as part of their problem. They designed low quality cars that met the CAFE standard and satisfied the government so they could continue with large trucks that could be pushed in fleet sales. They failed to keep an eye on what their competition was doing. They failed to change their way of thinking and stuck with the status quo. More than anything it was putting people like Rick Wagnor, who came up through finance, at the helm when what they really needed was someone from design. They needed a car guy. Someone who understood what people want. John DeLorean pointed that out in the early 70s. Bob Lutz knew it. If all a company focus on is the bottom line, they fail to see what actually sells. I'm damn glad that a car guy brought the Camaro back. Best decision GM has made in years. I'm sure all of those stockholders on the factory floor feel the same way. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Do you people not have capitals in Switzerland? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

In the case of Hussmann, the union and the company had a great working relationship, when the company was not part of a conglomerate. There was tension when the company was owned by Whitman Corp. After they spun us off, tension eased greatly. The came Ingersoll Rand. Company and union picnics were once combined. Without an overlord attitude from some sort of mega-god CEO, life was real good in the plant. When Ingersoll Rand took over, everything changed for the worst. No longer were company and union people permitted to fraternize. Hence, company and union picnics were no longer combined. The same for the annual golf tournament. I believe that sort of separation breaks down friendly negotiations. People stop viewing each other as friends in the same boat. It erodes the trust that was gained when people were able to see each other outside the plant. You see that those in the union and those who are company are no different. Everyone has families, kids, and homes. You know, people talk to each other about something other than the job. You start to see that everyone is in the same boat. That was healthy for the company as well as the union. My view is when a wall is put between the two, union and company, each side fails to see the other side as people and only as numbers and tools. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

What sets me off into a homicidal rage is when someone uses a credit card, WIC card, and/or write a check. And if that isn't bad enough, they have more than 10 items in the express line. The rage goes up a few notches if their Guatemalan. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Do you not realize that Eisenhower was the first to use the teleprompter? He introduced it into the Presidential speech. Every President since, except G.W. Bush, has relied on the teleprompter. Bush did not use one because he would fumble as he tried to read from it. He used large index cards instead. Nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes them more comfortable. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4848259-503544.html "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young