nimbus

I agree with Donna & Zennie... it's such a complex situation, any retaliatory action needs lots of thought behind it, to react rashly and harm other innocent people would give no justice to those who died. I think of myself as a pacifist, but also concede that something needs to be done about terrorism. I don't necessarily think bombing Afghanistan will do anything, though. Many Afghani people have fled the cities, apart from the poorest of course, who always come out worse in many situations, including war. The country has no food, snow-bringing winter is coming, the mountains are treacherous (Kush means death), the plains are littered with landmines. Is bin Laden even there anymore? Some who have studied this country for years think he may be in the Pakistan highlands, an unlawful and violent area. As for not wanting war, well who in their right mind would want war? Some kind of retaliation & justice is deserved in this case against the people who planned, aided and carried out the attacks, so we may have to have some kind of "war" but we shouldn't be happy about it. I don't think the protestors are stupid, just scared, and I can't imagine they mean any disrespect to the people who died in the attacks. There are so many deaths all over the world every day to cry over, to rail against. We should fight for all of these people. Larissa

Just saw this on the 7pm news... this is the text on the ABC (Australian) news website... " Man dies in parachuting accident Separate parachuting accidents at the same location in Sydney have killed one skydiver and left another critically injured. An ambulance representative says a man in his early 30s suffered multiple fractures this morning after his main parachute failed. The man was flown by helicopter to hospital. Three hours later, a second parachutist died. There are so far no details about the second accident, which also happened near a parachute school in south-western Sydney." I'm sure the TV news says that both died... the first accident had two canopies entangled...That's all there is at the moment.... very sad. My thoughts are with all those who were there, the friends & family of the skydivers, and to the skydivers who died, now you can fly forever... Larissa

skyhawk, lots of universities and TAFE colleges have short courses in film making that may be appropriate for you, or adult education groups. As for what would be good... following a first-time AFF jumper as was suggested sounds good. Or "A day at the dropzone" thing. Sounds like a great idea, good luck. Larissa

Icarus is a cool name, but don't forget what happened to the original Icarus!

Good luck with the house Speed Racer. I'm buying mine too, and it is hard at times, but good too. And when the value increases you can refinance and have money for a rig & jumps! That's how I got the money for AFF (which I'm only half way through... damn fear damn winter) It's all good. Larissa

yes, that's some good news in the midst of bad... congrats to all of you....

I'd gone to bed early as I was sick, and left the tv on, thinking I might wake up in a while and sometimes I hate the silence. So I did wake up later, around midnight here I think, and went down to turn the tv off and saw buildings, balls of smoke, flames, bits hanging off, people leaning out. The commentators were saying words like "attack", "hijack", "planes hit the towers". It was unreal. My mind was foggy from sleep and I just sat there, not understanding. What are they talking about? I thought... that's New York... what are they talking about? Then as I woke slowly it became clearer and then the pentagon was hit and then the buildings collapsed, and I sat there all night just watching, sometimes I cried, mostly I just couldn't believe it. I went back to bed around 6am for an hour or so and woke up thinking, god I hope that was a really bad dream. But it wasn't. What you guys in America are going through must be much worse than my feelings. Even though my best friends are living in Brooklyn right now, I tried not to worry about them as I doubted they would have been doing the tourist thing, especially at that hour. I've since heard from them so they're okay. I know a lot of people, an unimaginable number of people, won't share that comfort. I've been saddened before by things that have happened in the world - Bhopal, Chernobyl, hurricanes and earthquakes that kill tens of thousands, god there's so much to despair at. I've had tragedy in my own life like I'm sure many of you have. Now I keep seeing those images in my head, the planes, the people. I really don't think watching violent movies has kept us from feeling the horror and pain when violence happens for real. but I've gone off the subject here... I just can't stop thinking about it. Larissa

Yes, I'm ashamed people are acting like this. It does nothing to honour those who died nor those who are missing them. The Lebanese church attacked in Australia (mentioned in the article) was actually a Christian church. Shows the knee-jerk ignorance of some people. Larissa

You all have to stop because I have an extremely sore throat and really shouldn't be laughing so hard. Hey Viking, it sounds like he'd been watching that show "La Femme Nikita" a bit too much! Larissa

Much of the human spirit has already been broken in Afghanistan. Witness the hundreds of people fleeing the country as asylum seekers. Something should have been done about the Taliban long before this. They are in violation of human rights, and the people who live in the areas they control are in a constant state of oppression. This is especially so for the women. Women cannot go out in public unless accompanied by a male relative. Women must wear the full veil burqa. Women are executed for showing parts of their body. Women can no longer work, attend school or even speak in public. Women die as they are only allowed to be treated by female doctors (the only women allowed to work) or old male doctors. Other doctors are not allowed to touch them. The moral police make random and violent raids to ensure the extreme codes of behaviour set by the Taliban are adhered to. These people were already Muslim prior to Taliban rule, but they did not live according to these extremist beliefs. Resistance groups in outlying areas are fighting the Taliban. Most Muslims do not adhere to this extreme belief system. A lot of what westerners think of as Muslim practice is actually a cultural practice. Female circumcision in north Africa is practiced by Christians as much as by Muslims. There are Muslims in many countries that are not Arabic - Indonesia, in countries like Yugoslavia etc, and China has a massive Muslim population in the west. I'm just trying to say not all Muslims are indoctrinated with extremist beliefs. And do you really not think indoctrination occurs in western democracies, in more subtle forms? We should be angry at terrorists. We should also be angry at oppression. Larsissa

To freeflir29... re: 'I still stick with "Kill em all..."' Isn't that something called genocide? That is not a solution.

Is that a song lyric? yeah, sounds good apart from the pain bit...

Skreamer, I'm glad someone has pointed out the irony of America's (the government's) support of Afghani anti-Soviet fighters leading to the Taliban's rule in Afghanistan, and the CIA's connection with Bin Laden. I would even say it was a hypocrisy that the U.S. government - especially those in command of the military and secret service - often participates in. US govt. supported or aided one side or other in several African conflicts (Eritrea, Somalia) backing the non-socialist side, often to the detriment of hundreds of people in villages and the countryside. My own government here will not say "sorry" to the indigenous (Aboriginal) people for past injustices, including the forced separation of children from parents. The early colonists basically exterminated the Tasmanian Aboriginal people. The government (Liberal = conservative) here, supported by the Labor (= left of centre) party is turning away hundreds of refugees (they call them illegal immigrants) who are seeking to escape Afghanistan and Iraq. Both countries we denounce but we fail to assist those seeking in desperation to leave. The actions of governments are often driven by ideology, although they will not call it that, and by economic concerns (ie., the oil issue Skreamer referred to). That the people who planned, perpetrated and condoned the terrorist attacks in America should be brought to justice is undeniable. That more innocent people should die is insupportable. Whether Muslim or not, even the celebrating Palestinians (most of whom seemed to be children, and considering the number of people who live there those celebrating were probably a minority), all lives are precious. Sometimes it is necessary to fight back, to fight against, to fight for something. That's just sad, it's not something we should feel proud of. I hope this situation is resolved in the quickest way with the least harm done. I hope it doesn't escalate out of control. Larissa Just some words from two largely anti-war writers “But the light men love, who shines through the pale wings of morning, balestar on this earth now, watched the collapse of tall towers: Dawn” - Euripides ‘The Trojan Women’ ‘Will it be so again?’ - Cecil Day Lewis Will it be so again That the brave, the gifted are lost from view, And empty, scheming men Are left in peace their lunatic age to renew? Will it be so again? Must it be always so That the best are chosen to fall and sleep Like seeds, and we too slow In claiming the earth they quicken, and the old usurpers reap What they could not sow? Will it be so again – The jungle code and the hypocrite gesture? A poppy wreath for the slain And a cut-throat world for the living? that stale imposture Played on us once again? Will it be as before – Peace, with no heart or mind to ensue it, Guttering down to war Like a libertine to his grave? We should not be surprised: We knew it Happen before. Shall it be so again? Call not upon the glorious dead To be your witnesses then. The living alone can nail to their promise the ones who said It shall not be so again.

Michele, I'm so glad to hear your mum is okay. There must be many people wondering about friends or family. Strength to you all. Larissa

Just thought I'd add my post from the "Reaction" thread.... ...Despite all the horror of what's happened I am proud (and I don't even know you) of the people in these threads who have urged others not to respond with racism. Thinking of those who have died and who have lost loved ones and who are frightened and in shock and helping them and yourselves through this is the first thing to do. Here in Australia people are shocked and saddened. I saw footage of people hanging from windows and cried. My best friends are in New York right now, living in Brooklyn, I haven't been able to contact them but assume they're okay. To everyone in here, whether you have a direct connection to someone killed or not, to everyone who must be horrified and upset, god to everyone in the US, my thoughts are with you. It feels bad enough from the other side of the world, I can't comprehend how I might feel if it happened in my city or country. I don't belive in god as such, but may the thoughts and threads of love that run through the universe wind round everyone in the world today and help us all.... I didn't want to continue the "jihad" thread. Although I can't comprehend the reaction of the Palestinians to this, I think it's a pretty culturally specific to their particular situation and shouldn't be used to justify anti-Arab/Middle East/Muslim sentiments. Also, to all those who are helping in a practical way medically or whatever, may the thoughts of everyone who is horrified by this support you. None of my friends at work can concentrate. It's just too shocking. love, peace, tolerance and humanity in the face of mayhem and destruction, Larissa

Despite all the horror of what's happened I am proud (and I don't even know you) of the people in these threads who have urged others not to respond with racism. Thinking of those who have died and who have lost loved ones and who are frightened and in shock and helping them and yourselves through this is the first thing to do. Here in Australia people are shocked and saddened. I saw footage of people hanging from windows and cried. My best friends are in New York right now, living in Brooklyn, I haven't been able to contact them but assume they're okay. To everyone in here, whether you have a direct connection to someone killed or not, to everyone who must be horrified and upset, god to everyone in the US, my thoughts are with you. It feels bad enough from the other side of the world, I can't comprehend how I might feel if it happened in my city or country. I don't belive in god as such, but may the thoughts and threads of love that run through the universe wind round everyone in the world today and help us all. Larissa

It's so horrible it's surreal. I went to bed early (in Aust.), and just woke up about 15 minutes ago and went downstairs, where I'd left the tv on, to see pictures of smoke billowing from one world trade centre building, and was thinking WTF? I couldn't work out what was happening, didn't even notice there was only one of the towers there. It's just too terrible. Condolances to anyone who has lost someone, to the people who lost their lives. Has anyone claimed responsibility yet? Larissa

I think if they've received the cheque, you've completed the part of the transaction you're responsible for so they should send the suit! Wouldn't the post office (or wherever you get money orders from) keep a record to register all money orders? They could maybe trace & cancel it... and repay you the money if there's a police report signed by the people saying they received the cheque but it was stolen, or directly pay the people. Do you know if it's been cashed? Someone would need ID to cash it, and if the someone wasn't the people you sent it to, they'd have a hard time doing that. good luck! Larissa

Hey Josh, I know exactly how you feel. It's been wintery or windy many weekends lately, or I've been working or had an essay to do for uni, or friends had birthdays and the decision to even go to the dz has been out of my hands. One weekend I actually made it there, and the Sunday was perfect. Blue skies, nice breeze, few clouds. And what did I do? Sat around watching other jumpers spill out of the sky, land safely and beautifully under their canopies before me, and head back to the hanger to go again. I sat around watching clouds roll over in the late afternoon and then realised I was waiting for the point of wind or failing light when, as a student, I couldn't jump no matter how much I wanted to. I annoy myself no end with this procrastinating. Like you I want to, want to, want to, but then some part of my brain takes over and says nu-uh! Too much thinking is my problem. I'm reading a book called Inner Skiing which talks about different fears, one based on reality that gives you clarity, awareness and ability, and one based on the endless possibilities of what may go wrong, which gives you the choking fear that holds you back. Try the book, the mental approach is applicable to skydiving I think. And just be patient with yourself. The jumping will come. One day both the weather and you will be ready at the same time. good luck and blue skies Larissa "...when I decided that I too must pass through the experience of a parachute jump, life rose to a higher level, to a sort of exhilarated calmness." - Charles Lindbergh

that's great! especially the suspenseful buildup! just needed a laugh when I looked at the clock, realised it was 12.48am and I would need to be up at 5am to finish my uni essay that was due in last week! thanks for that...

I got the impression Viking was just venting as well... from other posts of his it seems he does a lot for his family and probably does more than most other people his age. I've never called my mum a bitch (she just drives me crazy most of the time!) but I know my brother (who is an adult living at home with her) does sometimes, so maybe it's a son-mother frustration thing. I think there's always a reason, or several, behind what someone says or does. Some of the replies in this thread show that there's always something behind a person's response (Viking obviously putting time & effort into his family, and losing people he loves, and feeling frustrated at not getting some time & space for himself; Cloud9's experiences growing up, probably thinking Viking should be more grateful for what he does have). But it's good to realise this, to realise that you never know what has happened in someone's life, or what they may be going through. Make less assumptions, create more awareness!! Find the happiness in each moment!! that's enough now....

"M" is for Marvellous! Michele, that's so fantastic, I'm in awe of your journey. Well done, well jumped, well written. You're an inspiration. skydreams forever, larissa

... don't think that's the job for me (what with being in another country and all...even though, mmm jet fuel smell) but have fun getting your A licence Michele.... your cats must be proud of you! larissa

I don't like it myself for those safety reasons, but as an experience in itself it was great... the clouds the day I did my first jump were thin and high enough that my canopy opened underneath them.... though I love looking down on the tops of clouds from a commercial airliner..

I did my first AFF jump through a cloud! I think my dz is applying for registration to allow this.... there's rarely any other aircraft in the dz area other than the jump plane. From what I've heard, everyone seems to love going through clouds, as long as they're not too thick, stormy etc... little fluffy clouds in big blue skies... larissa