jimbarry

You could direct that statement at Bush and it would be more accurate. He afterall is the one that didn't let facts get in the way of his invasion. nice try. SH spent 12 years resisting inspection and never abided by UN resolutions to disarm. This was the primary premise for invasion. How is this not a fact? You accuse me of spouting opinion as if it were fact and then you come out with this gem. How the hell do you know that? It's a gem, because the logic is inescapable. Please follow along... If SH abides by the UN resolutions to disarm and allow verification (say, in 1992, or even in 2002), then there is no justification for war because the conditions for the US Congress to authorize the President the use of military force are completely removed. Why is this so difficult to acknowledge? (Bush wasn't even president until Jan 2001. 9 years after SH was supposed to have verified to the UN that no wmd remained.) How could it be any other way? Actually, it should have been a lot easier for SH to destroy and allow the verification of his wmd and programs than for outsiders, because (get this) the weapons were his and he knew where they were. SH agreed to fully cooperate, so why would there be any "restricted UN inspectors"? And the facts were straight. SH spent 12 years shuckin' and jivin' the UN. Those are the facts, but some just choose not to see them. The loss of innocent people is SH's fault, no one else's. All SH had to do was disarm and prove it to the UN back when Clinton was president, and Bush would've had nothing to say about it. Also remember that Bush did everything but beg the UN to become relevant and step up to its responsibilities. But Kofi Annan and his cronies were too bribed-up on Saddam's oil-for-food kickbacks to care. Bush did the right thing. Plain as day. But, you still seem to be stuck on the track that it was up to the world to prove that SH still had wmd before we would have justification to invade.

Aarrggghhh... The letter "a" on a manual typewriter!! Left pinky, argh! Never got the hang of it. Scrounged and bought an electric two months into freshman year. Ah, the sound that big steel pig made crashing into the dumpster was schweet.

If SH has just abided by the UN resolutions, Bush would not have had the justification to invade. And i'd be 100% against it if he had. But then you've climbed inside Bush's head to conclude that he was going to war no matter what. I offer facts of actions, you offer biased guesses. It's you sir who are going to keep your unsupported views no matter what. Hey, why let a few facts get in the way? How nice of them. Too bad they didn't do this in 1992 when they agreed to. When in actuality, if they had lived up to their agreements, that would have been good enough to avoid war. He's still be in power and his murderous spawn would still be alive. But it's you who's saying that it took less than two years for US inspectors to conclude there were no wmd. But now you're saying that Bush should have given SH more than 12 years to prove this? And yes, it was up to SH to prove he didn't have them, not up to the world to prove he still did. Your opinion or fact? Bush hellbent on invading Iraq no matter what? Yeah, Michael Moore says this too, but doesn't have any proof either. Since SH did not allow the verification of wmd destruction, then there was a pretext of danger from wmd. Saving the Iraqi people was important yet secondary to this.

[replyAnd I'm in Philly where most people think it's justified to beat someone to a pulp for wearing an opposing team's colors at an Eagle's game. AND you'd be stoopid to wear Eagle gear at Giants Stadium. I've seen it. It ain't pretty... Hey, maybe you philly guys don't like beer out of a cup and would rather drink it from the air as it's flying at you. Point is, this happens on both sides and it's only wrong when Dems do it. (kidding)

Too bad SH didn't give the UN access to make this conclusion in the 12 years leading up to March 2003. It isn't. It's isn't?? But just a half a scroll up this page you said it "is". You said: "The Iraqis told you guys time and time again that they didn't have WMD. But your government CHOSE not to believe them..." wrong again. the un inspectors weren't there on a hunt for weapons. they were there to verify their destruction. and SH spent 12 years impeding their work. Wait, wait, wait... I thought the lib story was that Bush didn't give the inspectors enough time to finish? So did you mean "lack of findings" period? Or "lack of findings" yet (ie. as of 2003)? Again, if only SH had allowed verification when he agreed to, he could have avoided this whole war and all of its horrible waste of lives and resources.

Well, technically, if it's deferred compensation then it probably means he's being paid for something he did before becoming VP, and they're just paying him now for it (tax reasons maybe? dunno). Doesn't necessarily mean that they're paying him now for something he did as a sitting VP. Then yeah, it certainly contains a clear appearance of impropriety. Cheney doesn't seem interested in avoiding these appearances. Esp when H'ton gets no-bid contracts. As a republican I'm here to say that if the roles were reversed, then the republican machine would be all over it like a swarm. But no, you can't say that the democrats are being nice and silent about it. We've been hearing "Cheneyhalliburton" as one single word in the media for years now.

agreed. can't see it any other way. they weren't just supporting the president. they were in a confrontational location. who knows, he coulda told the girl to cry nice for the cameras if someone yells at her and takes the sign... yes, the people who did this are cowards. but this dad's a little high up on the coward scale too don't ya think? shoot, what's the power of a presidential campaign sign anyway? when's the last time you all saw a campaign sign and it educated you or changed your mind on how to vote for president anyway?

Fact. What, SH never violated UN resolutions to disarm and allow verification? Where you been boah? Some choices are unnecessary, some choices are optional, some are strategically smart, and some are simply suicide not to choose. Your comment treats all choices as possibly unnecessary. Too simplistic a view on things. Now there's a wacky alternate universe... a. Of course they're going to "tell" us they don't have them. b. They spent 12 years doing everything possible to thwart the inspection process. c. (we could spin our wheels all day on this...) The primary purpose of the invasion was due to SH being in material breach of many UN resolutions and the clock ran out. SH hoped his bribes to the UN and business deals with Security Council member countries would keep the world off his back. His risk failed. Whether or not SH actually had wmd in 2003 is secondary to that fact. But that's exactly the point. If we had known SH didn't have wmd in 2003, there would have been no justification for war. And that supports my comment that "only SH could have chosen peace." Excepting unless you are John Kerry, in which case the invasion was justified even if we knew going in there were no wmd. And THAT my friends is really scary. My bet is that if you acknowledged more facts, rather than just selecting the few the media are drumming into us, you wouldn't feel that way. imofwiw.

The chance of the same thing happening is just about equal I'd imagine. Like a cop taking his 3-year old daughter on a ride along. Sure, no one should be breaking the law at all, so she should be perfectly safe. "People are people so why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully." I've lived in several different states to know that there are jerks and nice people everywhere. We're all the same. Except in SoCal where no one signals their turns and lane changes.

anyone else see this phrase as self-conflicting?? free speech? zone? (nothing against your post jimbo)

Yeah, to an R. Kelly concert. Oops, wrong thread...

Two months ago, same for me. 30-something mom, Excursion, two kids in back, tinted windows, cell phone. And from what I could tell when we got out to chat...smoking (reaked). SUV women, especially in parking lots, are pretty scary too. No idea how to execute a turn. Canyoneroooooo... Ya canyonero, YA! But forget men/women for a sec., the big prize has got to be teenagers. Ever drive within a two-block radius of a high school at gettin'out time? Like driving in central america. Girlies on cellies, boys on testosterone. Nobody lookin', everybody floorin. Oh and one more thing: I am quite sure I am the ONLY owner of a turn signal in all of Southern California. I should post of a picture of it sometime. It's a nice convenient little handle on the left side of the steering wheel.

nice. yeah, good thing they grabbed and tore up those signs, because we all know that signs like those are so influential on how people vote for president. good plan.

"We are confident that (Kelly's) performance will help us to achieve our goal to educate the next generation of leaders."

stonecutters were disbanded soon after homer joined. safe to assume the number was disconnected.

AND we should all recall that it wasn't the job of the UN inspectors to do an easter egg hunt for wmd anyway. such a hunt could (and was) easily made impossible. it was the inspectors' job to verify the destruction of wmd SH had. SH brought this war on himself. only he could have chosen peace.

Nononono, it's better than that. Net worth-wise, you put your mortgage payoff in the debt column, *and* you put your house's market value in the assets column. $300k house you still owe $200k gives you $100k towards your net worth. Unless, that is, your house is actually worth 250k less than your loan's current payoff.

careful... someone might turn that into their signature line.

Oops. Good point. Keep forgetting I had to pay a few bucks a year for hotmail to have pop3 access too. But yeah, the draft thing is a pain. Yes, yes, I know I don't have to use it, but I got me the exact email name I wanted, and I can't do that with any of the other established webmails out there. For me it's not really "sucks ass", but it does have little ankle-biters...

Phew, then it's a good thing you said "FACTS" in all caps, or I would never have believed you. Then that's the difference between you and I. And it has to do with love and respect. I'm not a christian, but I respect all christians and their views. and jews, muslims, hindus, atheists, pagan, wiccans, you name it. I would never berate anyone into believing the way I do. But hey, thanks for the hit-and-run post. As you can see, you've accomplished a lot and changed everyone's minds. Good job.

might only be illegal if you *had* to buy something. the marketing plan seems to be betting on people actually buying stuff on their own, or not having enough discipline and getting themselves sucked into the non-free part of the offer. etc. but, sounds like if you do it right, you don't end up having to buy anything. I've found Wired to be a pretty reliable source of info.

can't save drafts. no pop3 access so i can access thru outlook. grrrr...

NSFW maybe? Ain't no maybe about it... Funny yes, but wrong so wrong...

The title of my post was "A case...", not "The case...". My original post doesn't use the word "proof", nor does it say "only". Nor were these my intentions, because that would be next to impossible to do. The intent of my post wasn't to find people who can prove he had them or prove he didn't. Since it doesn't appear to be possible to find such a proof either way, and other threads on this board sling a lot of mud pretending that they can, my intent was to present a case that asserts what was most likely... ...and to lay the blame for this war on SH and no one else. As I said originally, it was an invitation for others to poke holes in my line of reasoning if they can; not just say "you're reasons are flawed" (how?) or "there are other reasons" (which?). Unlike many others out here (i'm not saying you personally), my mind is open because I'll never have all the answers. To continue learning, questioning, and discussing is my civic duty as an american. "The stiff and inflexible is the disciple of death." -TTC 76 But, this thread here will probably die soon, because it's no fun to argue unless one can find someone to take up an absolute position. When in reality we often have to make decisions in life based on what's most likely. For some reason you applied onto me an absolute position and argued with that phantom instead of discussing the topic at hand.

Let's see what The Onion has to say on the issue. Sam Li rocks!!