EBSB52

Great points all around...

This is a beautiful thing. Between this and the flag burning thread I think people are starting to realize how, A) Fascist we are, and, B) How having a Democracy means squat.... Nazi Germany was a Democracy. I hoe this awakening isn't too late....

Hell, they did it here with BOB - Bank One Ballpark. Made an 80 something yo woman move out of a house that she'd lived in all her life... died shortly after that. Oh, and BOB funding was voted down by the county voters, County Board of Supervisors held a midnight session where they threw out the voters decision and held a private vote.... passed it of course. A guy shot Mary Rose Wilcox inthe ass and got 10 years for it...... No Fascism here.... shut up and move along or you'llbe shot...

This is nothing new, Judy. Eminent Domain laws have been around for a while. Over the last few decades they have been expanded to cover all kinds of things. Coastal commissions will often require easements across private land for beach access before they allow structures or improvements to be made - government extortion, really. And houses wiped out in hurricanes, etc., are often not built because the new regulations do not allow it. This is just the next step in a long process. The local governments, desiring tax revenues, really hate residences and mom and pop stores. Walmarts, CostCo, and other large businesses generate huge local revenues through sales taxes and business taxes. For the local governments, this is worth fighting for since the money to be made is huge. Only the states can now give these protections. A state may grant individuals more rights than the Federal Constitution. But, then again, the states stand to make a lot of money from this, too. And EBS, this isn't fascism. THis is government being the most powerful money making machine out there. Imminent domain has to do with public need/necc not corporate profit. I see the gov saying it is for the public with tax gains/employment, etc, but that is so out of context. And EBS, this isn't fascism. THis is government being the most powerful money making machine out there. Fascism is many things, but the most foundational is the marriage of corp and gov where the corps run the government through influence of politicians. This IS Fascism.

I guess it is easier for you to make excuses than to move. Alot less work. What excuses, I'm working on my second degree, a degree that will enable me to move. What grade did you finish?

So you are personally attacking those of us that are against flag burning? And allowing our countries symbol to be burned at will so a bunch of pansies can feel like they are exercising free speech Are you attacking those who support or who actually burn flags?

i agree it would be nice if everyone could have healthcare, but there isn't one single section of the Constitution that says ANYONE is entitled to heatlthcare. life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but i don't think it means free healthcare for everyone. Firstly, the US COnst is overstated and vague. WHat is "Unreasonable" search and seizure? Where in the 2nd does it say I can have a gun under my pillow? Healthcare isn't an entity that wouldbe regulated by the US Const. By birthright, I don't mean inalienable Const right/protection, I mean that all Americans should be entitled to healthcare, you agree? Is it ok with you that there are ill people out there w/o care? Free healthcare? No, taxes pay for it instead of some football stadium or some military project, get it? We pay for it, but it's guaranteed regardless of how much money you earn?

wrong. According to Christianity, if you live a life totally without sin, there's nothing separating you from heaven. Problem is, only one person has managed to do this. I have not committed one God damned sin my entire life..... oh shit, there goes my streak

Would you say that this analysis applies to the bible as well? That is a very good question. Christianity and Islam both have had plenty of atrocities committed in their names throughout history, but in modern times I don't recall anyone killing in the name of the Christian God. The same is certainly not true for Islam. Here is the problem I have with Christianity: I can kill a bunch of people for no reason and still get into Christian Heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. On the other hand, if I live a life without sin and do not accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, my soul goes straight to Hell. Here is the problem I have with Islam (and I must admit, MOST of what I know of Islam comes from what I see in the media, although I do have Muslim friends and have talked at length with them about their religion): I can kill a bunch of innocent people in the name of Allah and go straight to Muslim Paradise. Where is the sanity in all of this? To answer your question directly, yes, the Christian Bible is often used to brainwash people into doing things they would not normally do, but there just doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of violence associated with the Bible as there is with the Qur'an. It seems to me that Islam and Judaism have a very high level of paranoia. Both seem to view themselves as being constantly under attack. Christianity, on the other hand, does not project that same level of paranoia. Walt Christianity and Islam both have had plenty of atrocities committed in their names throughout history, but in modern times I don't recall anyone killing in the name of the Christian God. The same is certainly not true for Islam. Christians are much more subtle about it. The US backing Israel is the US' way of defending Christianity as well as oil, ideology. but there just doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of violence associated with the Bible as there is with the Qur'an. Sorry bro, but I have to respectfully disagree here. We are just so subtle about it and hind behind the guise of alterior motive. I don't like the application of the Quran, but the Bible is no better.

You're right, when people become dissatisfied with the country, the turds play the "Patriot Card."

People come here for cancer treatments from all over the World. Ill look for a source, but I see them, and have talked to them. And that somehow supports a bold and broad statement that we have the best medical system in the world? Jesus, are u fuckin serious? Cancer treatment and the availabilityof it for all isn't a measure of the entire system. Let's talk about quality and quantity (availability).

Would you like to reconsider that statement, or do you stand by it. Comparing the price of the Qur'an from amazon.com to the price of the foods I listed to produce the turd, the total price of the foods is greater than the cost of the Qur'an. Simple arithmetic and I stand by it. I suppose, though, that you are referring to the intrinsic value of the Qur'an vs. the intrinsic value of the turd. As a tool for brainwashing a bunch of susceptible people into doing incredibly vile and inhumane acts, the Qur'an has considerably more value than the turd. In my opinion it ranks right on up there with money as a motivator for doing evil. Muslims, or at least the really vocal ones, seem to have quite an ability to rationalize violence in the name of religion. "Allah Akbar!!!" followed by the loud boom of an explosion has become a commonplace occurrence. I haven't heard of anyone shouting, "Long live the turd!!!" and killing themselves and innocent bystanders with a bomb. I think the typical turd is much less prone to being used as rationale for heinous acts of violence. From that perspective, at least the turd does less damage than the Qur'an. I'll leave it to each individual to judge which they consider to be of more value to humanity. Walt Muslims, or at least the really vocal ones, seem to have quite an ability to rationalize violence in the name of religion. "Allah Akbar!!!" followed by the loud boom of an explosion has become a commonplace occurrence. It's a good thing Christians aren't like that Funny post tho

Actually, from what EBS and free are saying, it sounds like they have proof that socialized medicine does not work well. It's what we have in America, after all. We have the most privatized medicine in all the world that excludes those w/o money, yet some will complain it's to social. Can you or anyone else produce a place that has a more privatized medical program? No system is great, with costs what they are, but it's about exclusion and the US of A is great at it.

I know what would be cool - lighting a flag that you're towing at about 100 feet off the ground..... cool!!!! WHat a statement..... watch all the righty extremist nutjobs freak and run for the extinguisher

How wrong you are. I didn't vote for Bush to remove meds from people. I voted for Bush becasue he was clearly better than Kerry. Nice try at trying to tie two unrelated subjects together. I don't like the idea of socialised medicine...It does not work well. Proof of that is the US healthcare system is one of the finest in the world. But this is not a topic about that. It was also not a topic for you to show your true colors, but you did that just fine. Nice of you to act nice now, but you clearly showed your true colors. I didn't vote for Bush to remove meds from people. I voted for Bush becasue he was clearly better than Kerry. Uh, wrong - it's a package deal. When you vote for Bush, you say yes to the Iraq war, yes to disallowing people to file for bankruptcy, even if due to medical bills, yes to corporate profit, and yes to AIDS victims not getting their meds and general help that is much needed in that area. You can't say that you want Bush for some things and Kerry for others, you place your priority and vote it - we see your priority isn't helping AIDS patienst or other ill people, the elderly, etc... Proof of that is the US healthcare system is one of the finest in the world. OK, you wrote it's proven, where? You wrote, "proof" but failed to prove it. Best, maybe for the minoroty of rich, but equally and oppositely worse for the poor. Nice try at trying to tie two unrelated subjects together. Which 2? Medical care and the president? Uh, WTF? They are very related. But this is not a topic about that. It was also not a topic for you to show your true colors, but you did that just fine. Right, segue away from your voting choice that helped lead us to all poor or middle class AIDS patients be reduced to waiting to die w/o help from this POS country. I want my tax dollars going to help victims of AIDS and all other diseases instaed of to some corporation. Then you wrote: Nice of you to act nice now, but you clearly showed your true colors. Evidently you have too, you would prefer the $$ go to corps instead of disease victims. If I were to talk to the average person with AIDS or a disease/condition of the spine where stem cell research could help and I asked them if they had their choice: 1. Have someone call them names for an hour and receive meds -or- 2. Not be called names and not receive meds Which would they choose. You did the righty thing; get hung on semantics and let the important semantic things go to waste.

There have been myriad changes in the healthcare system in the last couple of decades. Much of this comes from figuring out that the system simply can't afford free rides to everyone for everything. I'll put it this way - a couple of years ago I was having a great time! Skydiving, gigging, trips to Vegas and elsewhere. Everything I wanted to do I did. Then the money ran out, and I haven't been able to do it in a couple of years. Under that asshole Bush I was having a great time. Then I wasn't. And think about it - has your government health-care gotten worse, or has the health care you're paying for solely out of your own pocket gotten worse? If it's the latter, then I'd suggest you switch doctors. If the former, any free healthcare is good healt care, isn't it? Hmm, socialist countries have figured out these, uh, free rides. Free rides: does that oppose letting people die in the streets? I think so, but in the US we villify poor people.... great country we have. Under that asshole Bush I was having a great time. Then I wasn't. What, was it Bush's largets tax increase in history that made that happen? What event that Bush 1 did and Clinton didn't do cuased your quality of life to plumet, IYO? Bush 1 and 2 = hates lawyers Clinton = That depends what the definition of "is" is Truth is Clinton loved lawyers - he is one (minus suspension) and Bush hates them. I don't understand what presidentially caused your life to plummet under Clinton. Litterally, everyone else did well under the Clinton admin, stock market was at all time highs, etc.... Perhaps something unrelated to CLinton occurred that led to your diminshed fun???? has the health care you're paying for solely out of your own pocket gotten worse? If it's the latter, then I'd suggest you switch doctors. If only I had several thousand dollars. And think about it - has your government health-care gotten worse.........If the former, any free healthcare is good healt care, isn't it? Free? Taxes pay for that. Why is it we have to be poor to get access? WHy shouldn't all Americans, born or naturalized be entitled health care via governement programs? Don't you want your fellow countryman/woman to have heathcare over personal gain? Where is your allegiance?

You see, there is the problem. You don't cater to the "thumpers" or any group in particular. You lay out a platform that makes sense both fiscally and socially. I don't think either team is doing a real good job at that. We have the equivalent of people voting for the party they think has the best looking hats. Where's the substance? And of course, if someone is poor, then they are to the left fiscally if they are short term thinkers - which is likely true for people living day to day. The "thumpers" aren't some little group of whackos that want the US flag save from everyone's BIC lighter, they are a huge contingency and if they see a political party fail to do anything but pass this anti-gay, anti-control BS they will vote against them. The thumoers aren't some small, narrowly focused amicus group that wants to save the hoot owl and they see no other reason to live and vote, so the left would have to assume the right's moral calendar in order to woo some votes - won't happen. You lay out a platform that makes sense both fiscally and socially. Contemporarily people aren't into sense, they're into having their opinons and ethnicity passed along to everyone. Ross Perot made sense, he received 19% of the populous vote and no electoral votes. We have the equivalent of people voting for the party they think has the best looking hats. Naw, the parties are clearly defined and teh dichotomy goes like this: 1. Fiscal position 2. Moral position. Now, some peole like me are left of center on both accounts, some are right on both and some weigh one far more heavily than the others. I think a good example of this are the American Hispanics, where the are often fiscally left, but hooked on the Jebus card for Guadalupe and all that wonderful nonsense.... they vote right and live in poverty so Jesus gets one for the ole Gipper. You have the other type, often the well-off tyoe that wants his sexual or herbal pleasures, but hates poor people... these guys will vote either way depending upon many factors. See, I don't think it's hat color/design, I think it depends upon where people place their priorities and the left can't assume this mainstream protocol and expect the thumpers to join in in large numbers. The left would have to wholesale sellout and join the right in their hate for abortion, gays, premarital sex, etc.... not so easy. And of course, if someone is poor, then they are to the left fiscally if they are short term thinkers - which is likely true for people living day to day. I dunno. There are a lot of poor people who are educated and not this street scum, transient type that you lean toward here. Short term thinkers..... hmmm, I know some righties I would consider to be that....

Damn, someone beat me to posting this thread. All those who make fun of me making references to American Fascism..... any comment? Even the conservs will start to agree with the ridiculous flag burning attempt and this that the US becomes less desireable every day.

Just another example of one party getting too much upper hand. Our Republicans can get a bit out of control just easily as the Dems would have if they were in control. Yep, although a Dem, I don't want a Dem-run society either. A little ballance please. What we really need is for the Dems to get out from under their myriad splinter extreme groups, go back a bit more central and win an election or 3. And they're trying, but to do that they need to cater to the thumpers, which won't happen. See, the Dems lost their political foothold when LBJ passed a lot of civil rights laws that pissed off the Southern Democrat, who then often hated the black man, ever since then the Southern vote has gone red. Many southerners are poor and are fiscal lefties, but are driven by their moral right values.

personally, i always wonder what one of the people burning a flag really wants to say. The same as a person who protests an abortion clinic or a person who yanks those abortion clinic protestors out of the way of the door. The same as a person who protests the WTO The same a s person who marches in a gay rights rally or the opposition. It's all the same from a diferent perspective. if i approached them with a mic and camera at 6 o'clock and said 'excuse me sir, you now have the stage, what is it you would like to say?' i wonder what their response would be? It would vary depending upon the person and the issue they have with the US. If I were there I would have so much to say. I could talk about how we executed kids until 2 months ago, I could talk about selective issuance of healthcare, I could talk about corporate immunity...... I could go on, but some people might have only 1 issue. all the video i see of flag burners is people jumping around like children screaming and yelling obseneties, but nothing constructive is being said. I have never seen a flag burned in the US, whether on TV or otherwise. To generalize all flag burners as the ones you claim to have seen isn't cogent. I think maybe you have seen flags burned in other countries where they jump around. Tell ya what, why don't we have a cogent conversation w/o the flag burning and you can explain some of what I wrote in this post with the homelessnes, executions, etc.... oh, you don't wanna talk, mmmk. i love this country and think there is no better place in the world to live, period. Come on, someone that uses the word, "cogent" should be intelligent enough to know about Scandinavia. That is arguably the best regios in the world in which to live. but when i have a problem with anyone or anything i address it and then suggest a course of action to remedy the problem. OK, that's the frontend of the matter, then they tell you to shove your problem up your ass....then what? In socialized countries you have a problem, medical, hunger, etc.... they answer with something that will actually help you. Ah, poor Capitalists cry about a few more percent taxes to help the poor - fuck the poor, right? Spoken like a true American. i dont' allow people to sit in meetings and bitch unless they have a solution...it get's you nowhere. OK, solution for sick = socialized medicine. Solution for mass numbers of homeless = job centers that house and employ people until they are competent to do so on their own. WHere do we get the mnoney = from corps that export our manufacturing in the way of a stiff tarrif, like Japan does. But we won't, in fact we passed NAFTA to cut the tax burden to corps that export work to North America and now Bush has facillitated corps sending manuf overseas.

I did not find his comment insensitive OR ignorant. It was technically correct. AIDS destroys the human immune system, making the victim extremely susceptible to all sorts of infections. It's those infections (typically pneumonia) that kills them, not the AIDS virus itself. He was splitting hairs. His comment was tangential, but I don't think it was meant to be mean-spirited. Walt Thx, and no it wasn't meant that way. Had he said he had HIV/AIDS I would never have writen it that way.

I do wish all these people who slam the US would move. They keep promissing to, but never seem to actually do it. It's not that easy. It costs a lot and you want to be sure to be established in a profession that is dynamic enough to keep working. Also, if you move to a country that speaks another language you have to learn it before you go. Furthermore, be careful what you wish for. You think these so-called freedom fighters in Iraq are saving our asses, which may or may not be true, but the little dissent that is here from the left keeps things a bit in check. If we were all lock-stepped Bushians, all the dissenters vacated, we would be much closer to the Naziism where we are heading now. Remember, Bush said he would sign the assault weapons bill if it crossed his desk. The gov really wants to pull the firearms, so quit blaming the lefties.

Your comment was insensitive and ignorant. You claim to be for the people, then you slam them just the same. That kind of comment showed your true colors. Funny, nice try at defending yourself/attacking me now. Your comment and attitude shows who you are. UH, huh, like I wrote in the apolgy to the gentleman with AIDS, these Bush lovers helped to take the meds out of his hands and will not comment on it when a real person is ill. Thanks for proving me right. Comment on how you feel about the politics behind Bush's medical cuts. I hear crickets.....

Wow--we actually agree on something!!! I would take a dim view of an American citizen burning an American flag as a "fuck you" statement to the government, but they should have every right to do it. I can kind of see the analogy, but I think it would be more accurate to compare it to people kidnapping and imprisoning me and then burning a picture of my wife/GF. In a situation like that, I might find the picture burning a bit demoralizing, but I'm fairly sure that I would find the kidnapping and imprisonment part to be far more disturbing. Walt I respectfully disagree with your analogy. If you were kidnapped and made to watch your GF's/wife's picture being burned, you would fear for the safety of your GF/wife, not give a shit about the pics themselves. The Iraqis care more about that book than they do their families in many cases I'm sure, so I think my analogy is close to being exact. It's hard to think like a Muslim and I don't like the application of their beliefs either, but I'm not ethnocentric so I am not in that position to say.

Nice