377

Orange, Where do you find this esoteric obscure stuff? Google? It's not like you are a tuned-in local. LA/Hollywood are on a different planet. I hope it runs in San Francisco, but unlikely. Only one in a thousand up in this area even know what Point Break is. Ckret is Johnny Utah, I'll concede out the outset. I'd need a time machine with a reverse gear to audition for that role. We have to get Ckret to jump. I see it as essential job related training. Ckret might want to interview some USAF/ANG Pararescue PJs (parachute jumpers). They specialize in jumping into rugged terrain/situations and might have a few ideas we have missed. A PJ would have no problem making Cooper's jump. Maybe they would do it as a training exercise. Bet they would if the FBI asked. Sluggo and Snowman could prepare the jump run map. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bureau of Land Management (US Dept of Interior) smokejumpers use squares: http://www.peoplelandandwater.gov/blm/blm_03-13-07_blm-smokejumpers.cfm. Forest Service (US Dept of Agriculture) smokejumpers use slightly steerable rounds: http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/smokejumpers/mccall/. Mark Thanks for the updated info Mark. Do you know why USFS still uses rounds? Seems to me that with proper training squares would do the job better than rounds would. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If Cooper needed V23 he could have asked directly, but that would show he knew a lot about flying, about local sectional charts, which would have narrowed the list of suspects. It does indeed look like Cooper assured that V 23 would be picked by issuing contraints that left only one resolution available... but, somtimes retropective analysis makes random stuff look really coherent and clever. I think it is possible that Cooper had no idea what V 23 was let alone how to get the crew to fly it without ever mentioning it explicitly. We seem to be focused intensely on where Cooper jumped. Lets get some parallel dialog on who he might have been. I say he was not a skydiver, and had big debts with high pressure to pay. I also think there is a high probablility that he had no prior felony criminal record. I stand ready to be proven wrong. Fire away. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Smoke Jumpers use steerable rounds and have for many decades. They used a Derry Slot steering mod but it isnt so different from sport steerable mods. Riggers can chime in here. Being able to get down from trees is a big deal for Smoke Jumpers because some of the places they jump into have few or no clear landing areas. It doesn't look like Cooper carried any rope or rappeling gear so a reserve might be his only way down from a tree. Landing in a tree at night in cold rain suspended 20 or more feet from the ground is a very serious deal. If you just drop you can break bones or worse. If you dont get down you eventually die. I used to be positive Cooper was a skydiver, but no more. His gear choice says a lot to me and none of it says skydiver. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I used to think Cooper was an experienced skydiver (sport jumper) but Ckret has convinced me otherwise. The sport rig would have been my choice for several reasons: 1. steerable canopy, a very big deal if you are jumping into unknown ground hazards. A sport rig canopy sleeve means less opening shock too, which is something to think about if you have to pull at a speed above terminal velocity. 2. you could hook a reserve canopy/container to it, a second chance if the main failed and (importantly), a way down from a tree. I'd much rather have a steerable sleeved main and a reserve than a military pilot main rig, even if the military rig was more reliable. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Sigh.. the youth of today. Even I am a "youth" in skydiving terms, and yet I have never made a single landing with radio (or done a tandem, for that matter, a fact I happen to be very proud of ). My understanding of rounds is that you just learnt to PLF. But, all that notwithstanding... another reason why a survivable jump (IF he managed to open) probably needed some experience - I believe broken ankles were pretty common on non-PLF'd jumps in those days... especially without boots. (thinks... broken ankles are pretty common these days too...but now I digress) I learned to jump in 1968. My static line training was excellent, a full week of night classes lasting several hours each. ENDLESS emergency procedures practice. We were truly ready for a first jump malfunction. FF training was not so great back in the day. No AFF, no radios, you were on your own and had to teach yourself how to get stable. You were told to arch, count and pull. I had no altimeter. I got a lot of experience with flat spins and my own uncontrolled version of freestyle before I learned how to get stable. Once I relaxed in freefall it just came to me. Before, I had tensed up at the first sign of instability and that just made it worse. The great thing about round canopies is that once they were open you were generally going to be OK. The kind students jumped had very little forward drive so a downwind landing wasn't such a huge deal as it is now. No flare skills needed, just avoid trees, power lines and rocks. I think if Cooper pulled, then chances are he landed OK. What he encountered on the ground depends on where he exited and certainly affects his survival chances. If he went into deep water at night I think he drowned. Since survival is hugely dependent on where he exited, the microscopic attention to the flight path is warranted. If he were an experienced jumper I'd have expected him to take a reserve because you can use it to get down from trees. Just deploy it, get out of your harness and climb down the lines. A tree landing was a real possibility in the Pacific NW. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What Georger said about Sluggo, right on. Same kudos for Snowman and many others. Amen. 307 377 707 727... 777: aluminum evolution. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No mystery about 377 Snowman, I'll explain. I am recovering from my 727 cabin oxygen system error pointed out by my good friend Sluggo. Speaking of gas cylinders, maybe a few chuffs of Nitrous would make me feel better. Boeing made a plane after WW 2 called the Stratocruiser. It was the 747 of the 1950s, double decker, cocktail lounge down below, four massive Pratt and Whitney Wasp Major 4360 cubic inch displacement radial piston engines with 28 cylinders each. Not one remains, just a few C 97s which was the military equivalent. The model number of this extinct historical ailiner? 377! An exhange of gunfire on Hwy 377? Snowman, what happened???? Were you a cop or just another gun totin bad dude in Texas? I didn't know most bank robbers today were heroin addicts and only got $1-2K. The bank robbing profession has really gone to hell. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Passenger oxygen for drop down masks on the 727-100 is generated individually by exothermic chem reactor cans, not supplied from overhead tanks. Remember the Value Jet crash in the Everglades? Those cans get HOT. Perhaps Tosaw is referring to the portable oxygen tanks that are stowed in the overhead luggage compartments. Most flights carry a couple for medical emergencies. Don't know which compartment they were normally stowed in on NWA 727s. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Ckret can update us, but back when I was doing crim law the avg bank solo robber seemed to get really small hauls, seemed to average less than $7500 in the 70s. Cooper needed big bucks fast. Bank robberies did not bring big bucks in most cases. Bank robberies seemed really stupid to me. Huge risk, small reward, big fed court sentences. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I wonder if Cooper had a gambling rather than opiate addiction? I have dealt with a lot of heroin addicts during my time working in a public defenders office. This is a big generalization, but they seemed to be looking for the next $100, never the next $100,000. They did burgs, shoplifting, prostitution, street robberies... all low ticket crimes. Ckret has dealt with tons of bank robbers. How many were junkies Ckret? Gambling debts can become huge and your life is in danger if you don't pay a mob related debt. A TWA captain in the 1980s was busted hauling 20lb lots of heroin in his flight bag. Why? Gambling debts. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, You have to play fair here. How can you post all sorts of stuff about Duane's criminal history and then slam Ckret really hard for posting a few more facts about Duane that you were not aware of? I am not denying that it hurt you emotionally, but attacking Ckret's discretion and professionalism is out of line. If you are going to put Duane up as Cooper on this forum, then you have to thicken your skin a bit. Everything about Duane's history becomes fair game. We shouldn't have to pre-clear any posts with you for fear of hurting your feelings or those of your family members. What Ckret posted about Duane was simply a FACT, not a slur or innuendo. I think you are sincere in your beliefs and welcome a continued dialog with you. You are right about the importance of flight crew interviews and about many other things too. There are a lot of strange links between Duane and the Cooper caper, but unless I missed something, none are supported by immutable physical evidence. They are all based on people's recollections. I disagree with your very firm belief that Duane was Cooper, but I haven't positively ruled him out. As Orange and many others have said, show us some hard evidence linking Duane to Cooper and you can change our minds in a minute. You can be wrong on this forum and it's no big deal. I've been wrong and even slammed, but I just roll with it. Being righteously indignant and taking personal offense as a result of someone posting FACTS is inappropriate. We play rough in this literary playground. That's going to be true any place skydivers hang out. I think you owe Ckret an apology, not vice versa, but that's just my opinion. Peace, 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

28 ft canopy in an non extended NB6 container, VERY weird ripcord handle location modification... was Cossey planing to have an ex wife jump with this? 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Hey conspiracy theorists! Does anyone think the chute was planted to hype the auction? Awfully good timing. If you really want to go to the paranoid extreme... those rotted twenties sure brought a good return. Could Cooper have somehow benfitted from their appreciation in monetary value? Was the "find" arranged to turn a few twenties into thousands? I think the answer is no, but I have taken my Lithium, Haldol and Prozac today. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Well, duh! Obviously number 312. So I must be 377. OK, it's official. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Didn't some of the moon rocks actually get into private hands? article here http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E3DC103FF936A1575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all 32 were authorized into private hands by Congress http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E3DC103FF936A1575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all Imagine if you could convince someone you somehow got a rock NASA secretly retrieved from Mars but didn't want to inform the US because there was water and microbes detected on it. Basically you see my point. Human imagination is boundless. Trying to pretend you can predict it is silly and a waste of time. Good point. Predicting public favor is difficult. Did you know that we do have Mars rocks here? They are found in the Antarctic. They reach Earth by being ejected at speeds above orbital escape velocity from the Mars surface by meteor strikes. I didn't believe it when told but it is true. Also, there is a serious debate about microbe evidence contained in some of them. I think the items in dispute are just mineral formations, not anything generated by organic life forms, but I hardly know the difference between a molecule and an atom. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nitro has some very good points. Another would be that an inexperienced person migh try to pull at right angles to the cable housing once the handle was extracted from the pocket. That would make a hard pull even harder. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Great ideas Snowman. Let's get it going on eBay. Fortunes have been made with less clever ideas. I do think pieces of his chute would bring big bucks. Have you seen how much small pieces of the Space Shuttle booster rocket recovery chutes go for on eBay? 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Wonder what number Bill Dause and Ralph Hatley have? You know how jumpers love list numbers, like SCR numbers, POPS numbers, BASE numbers? Imagine how prestigious it would be to have an OFFICIAL FBI COOPER SUSPECT NUMBER? Ckret, PLEEEEASE PLEEEEASE put me on the list. I get no respect from the hotshots at the DZ and this would definitely solve that problem. I visited Seattle in 1971 and I was even jumping surplus gear back then. Motives? Well, first would be a free jet jump. Second, I only had $1200 to my name at the time of the crime, provable by bank records. Come on Ckret, it's a small favor to ask. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Were these auctioned bills just from the portion of the money that the finder was allowed to keep? If so, there should be a lot more available... unless the insurance company or the bank was dumb enough to turn them in for new currency. I am amazed that people would pay this much, but then I remember that piece of toast with the image of Jesus on it and how much that went for. The price does tell you a LOT about whether everyone but us has forgotten about DB Cooper. The public fascination with the caper obviously endures. What I'd like to have is the counterfeit Cooper-numbered bills that those con artists used to get a big advance from Newsweek or whatever the magazine was. That was pretty clever, but not clever enough to escape the long arm of the law. I think they served time for that caper. I wonder how hard it would be to fake the data panel from the chute Cooper jumped? Riggers... your opinion? I read a rumor that Perris was going to retire or sell their DC 9 jet. Can you imagine how expensive it must be to fly it with Jet A over $6 a gallon? Lt Diver, what is the real story? Better hurry Ckret, your chances for a jet jump may be diminishing. I think the FBI should pay for your jump as part of the investigation. I'd bet they spent a fortune on those 727 sled drop tests with a chase plane and air to air camera work. I hope someone is running Wolfgang's photo past Tina's eyes. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Records are records. How foolish for the CSPA to recognize lesser accomplishments and ignore Bill's because they don't like him. It isn't like he was taking steroids. In my book you hold those records Bill. To hell with the politics driven rewrite of parachuting history. I noticed that the jumpship in the first record was a Learstar. Do you happen to know the reg number? That was one faaaast Lodestar mod. Mark 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Since I started getting on the internet forums (or is the plural of “forum” “Fora”) I have been surprised, shocked, I’ve gotten my feelings hurt. I’ve been made to feel proud. I’ve felt like an outsider. I’ve wondered why certain people have said certain things. I have gotten discouraged and I have been encouraged. But, I have never been so disappointed as I am that only one person commented on my AF Guidance lecture that I posted last night. I’ve thought it over, and the only answer I have, is that nobody on this board has as many GPS receivers as I do, and has spent as much time as I have trying to understand the position algorithms that Garmin uses. Sluggo A man with a GPSr always knows EXACTLY where he is. A man with two GPSrs is NEVER really sure. Sluggo, Did the govt pay more for the missile guidance error deviation variation teaching aid than they did for those aircraft toilet seats? "I dont know where I'm goin but I know where I've been" Sitting in limbo, by Jimmy Cliff. Two GPSs is a terrible idea. You need three and a voting solution. I am an altimeter collector and never jump with less than two and often have 3. I get laughed at. One guy said if they read different, which one do you trust? Easy: the one with the lowest reading. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

McCain has a vicious temper. Clinton didn't. Monica knows why. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No, you don’t have a life…. In fact you are dead…. And you are in “Skydivers Hell” where you have to answer Whuffo’s questions all … day … long… For eternity. Sluggo Sluggo, That isnt skydiver's hell, this is: $40 jump tickets, so the DZO can just break even on up jumpers. "I know I told you I was single, but , well...uh.. you see we aren't really officially divorced yet... and that sounds like his truck outside" 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I'd have to echo Nitro here. Back in the late 60s I was given a surplus main rig that had a REALLY hard pull (unextended container and a sleeved C9). I complained after fighting really really hard to pull it before I went to my reserve. I did get it pulled but it was HARD. The rigger's reaction was: "maybe you need to work out more." as he put it back on the rental rack. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.