377

"377 - someone told me that you are not just someone interested in this crime and that you have used me for information...is that true?" Jo, Whoever told you that is wrong. I have no axe to grind or commercial interest in anything connected with Cooper. The case has fascinated me since my youth. I have jumped the Navy 26 conical, jumped from a jet airliner and have other relevant knowledge such as radar technology. It is fun to speculate about what happened that night and how we can collectively solve the mystery. That's it, nothing more. You need to stop suspecting that anyone who disagrees with you is taking advantage of you or plotting against you. I plead not guilty. Sincerely, 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

On to other things: "How certain are we of the radar track, given that no tapes exist?" Great question! I wish we had an answer. I chased down a lot of leads on the USAF SAGE radar system that was used to vector the F 106 fighters to intercept the NWA 727 that night. I am convinced that we are at a dead end on SAGE, for technnical reasons. That still leaves ATC surveillance radar. I personally think the 727 map plot is wrong to the extent it makes it impossible to have the found money end up where it did by natural means. We need to know exactly how the aircraft track map was prepared, by who, using what references to assure perfect radar plot to ground map registration, etc. Clock synch is an excellent point, but believe it or not, the old analog plug in clocks that used 60 hz synchronous motors were VERY accurate, provided that they were set properly and left plugged in. The electric utilities kept a very accurate 60 hz AC frequency on the grids and a synchronous clock motor is slaved to that 60 hz just by its design, not by any fancy quartz crystal electronic circuits or radio receivers. Still a couple of minutes could mean 6 miles or more, so it is an issue because we cannot be sure that all clocks were set right or that the exact times at which things were said on VHF radio were accurately transcribed. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The so called "bomb" he showed to Tina proves that there was some preflight planning. Wouldn't shoes and warm clothing be part of any rational jump plan in that weather and over that terrain? I cannot imagine a paratrooper or skydiver choosing to exit in loafers or slipons, IF that was what he was actually wearing. I am beginning to wonder if this might have been a first jump (or first freefall jump) and possibly ended in a fatality. If it was a first jump or first freefall, an unstable 200 mph exit at night with totally unfamiliar gear could be VERY disorienting. I can imagine a plausable no pull scenario. He might have even pulled but was unable to dislodge the pins from the cones in a very tightly packed NB6 rig. If experienced skydivers go in with no pulls from cutaways in sunny weather, why is it so unlikely that Cooper might have panicked and gone in? I am keeping an open mind and actually hope that Cooper survived the jump. They found some money, the 727 door placard, but not one other thing that went out the back door of that 727. No briefcase, no Cooper, no canopy, no rig. I sometimes wonder if Cooper died, was found with some of the money, and buried with everything but the cash by someone who has kept their mouth shut for many years and will die with the secret. I think you could have spent the bills without detection if you did it in small amounts mixed with other money. Perhaps you could do it at a casino with even less caution.

Ground plan? Good point. I think McCoy took a taxi, but that option wasnt available to Cooper. I have no idea how Cooper planned to exit the landing and get transportation back to civilization without arousing suspicion. That is a real serious puzzler. Normally I'd say there had to be a preplanned connection with someone on the ground, but I cannot see how they could coordinate meeting up with each other Remember, this was 1971, doubt if Cooper was carrying a mobile phone. This is really a hard problem given the uncertainty as to where Cooper would have landed. Readers: come up with a likely Cooper ground plan post landing. How do you get from a wilderness jump (or farmland jump) and blend back in when there is so much news circulating? Every guy who looked wet and disheveled was a suspect that night. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I watched our jump pilot John Lewis try do that exact same thing in a Cessna 180 at the old DZ in Livermore CA. He didn't make it and died in the crash. I lost my taste for DZ buzz jobs after seeing one that ended so tragically. Now, when I come across one in the early planning stages, I put in my two cents to discourage it. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Cooper on a real SAGE scope. I just knew if I searched long enough I'd find it. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

SAGE old timers are checking in and are politely destroying my fantasy. Early feedback is that if NWA 305 had its transponder active (a certainty) then SAGE, in its infinite computer wisdom, would display only the transponder hit and filter out the raw radar echos within the "data cell" which was about 1/8 mile wide. Cooper would only show up when he separated from the plane horizontally by more than the remaining data cell width, which would be about 1/16 mile if the transponder hit were centered in the data cell. Sweeps were slow, about 6-10 seconds per sweep (nobody is certain, but it was slow), so do the math. Cooper might have showed up for one maybe two sweeps, not much to go on. My sacred "SAGE solves Cooper mystery" scenario is unraveling fast. SAGE did apparently have electronic recording means besides 35 mm film, but the old timers tell me that there is almost no chance of any electronic records surviving unless they were preserved during the initial case investigation. Here is the actual quote from a SAGE expert: "In any event, it is doubtful if digital tapes showing tracks and radar data at the direction center for that day still exist, or 35 mm film of a PPI at the radar sites or of a device called a RAPPI (Random access PPI). The large Kelvin Hughes Projector 35 mm film for the Direction Center command post display, more of a situation map, likewise is not available but it likely wouldn't show the detail needed for this process." OK, back to the drawing board. Sigh. The thrill of the chase... the disappointment when you see what is found. If this is what real detective work is like, I think I'll keep my day job. Carry on Ckret. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Boring? Heck no. More please. Got a link to that site? http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-ibm-sage.html#Special-Features[url] 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

SAGE DID have film records: 35 mm film radar screen shots, one per sweep. Believe it or not they were chemically processed automatically to be shown in a big screen projector as a continuously updated slide show for a big USAF air defense radar display board. Time delay was less than 30 seconds! This MUST have been superseded by more modern technology. SAGE was working through the early 1980s. Here is some stuff that will amuse the techies here. It is arguably (barely) Cooper related because it is about the SAGE radar at McChord AFB. I am trying to find out more info from McChord SAGE techs who worked there in the Cooper era. Q7 was the digital computer that ran the SAGE system. " There were also programs written to play music on the Q7. The DMC had a speaker on it, with a volume control and a switch to select one of four register bits to monitor. During normal air defense operation, the speaker was usually turned to a low level to monitor the operation of the system. The air defense program had a certain rhythm to it while cycling normally, and an experienced tech could often catch a problem early by hearing a change in the pattern. In standby mode, by toggling the register bit on and off at a defined rate, you could produce definite musical pitches through the speaker. The problem with the existing music programs was that it was a complicated process to write a program to play a tune, and each program could only play one tune. Over the course of several mid-shifts, I wrote a music interpreter, which would read a short data deck (punch cards) telling which notes to play and for how long, making it easy to program new tunes. After one productive mid-shift, the day crew arrived to hear the standby system playing "The Liberty Bell" march, with big block letters on the display scope spelling out "Monty Python's Flying Circus". I wish I had saved that program! When McChord's Q7 was dismantled in 1983 after 25 years of operation, the crew saved a couple of pieces for me: a switch/indicator assembly from the DMC and a 64Kbit core plane from Big Mem. I've also acquired a few other parts over the years, including two PUs, some panel faceplates and a LRI test panel assembly. I have a page dedicated to my SAGE artifacts." http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/SAGE/ 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade, is it fun scolding an FBI agent, and from a position of superior online power? Cut him some slack, even once more if needed. I think he got the message and his transgression was so minor. I have gotten in FBI agent's faces, but in a very safe environment: courtroom cross examination. There the only downside was possibly pissing off a judge who saw all defendants as guilty. That kind of judge didn't really appreciate me grilling men who he considered national heroes in the fight against crime. The FBI agents (actually they were all FBI "Special Agents", never heard of one who was just an FBI Agent) generally took it stride. We both had jobs to do. City cops sometimes took it personally and gave me dirty looks or a single finger salute in the hall outside the courtroom. Never had an FBI agent do that. I used to jump with some prosecutors at Lake Elsinore back in the 70s. Quite a few criminal defense lawyers jump. Wonder if we have any FBI agents in the skydiving ranks? There must be a few, but they don't get paid very well and skydiving is not a cheap sport if you are really active in it. Maybe they married rich and spend all weekend at the DZ using multiple rigs and paid packers. Ckret: any jumpers in your office? What do they think? Did Cooper go in with no pull or did he make it? Lets keep this forum alive: no personal attacks. Tolerate others no matter how wacky, obsessed, inexperienced or ill informed they seem to be. Like Rodney K. said: "Can't we all just get along?" 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Radar fanatic here again, ignore if this bores you. I have found a website, very technical, all about SAGE including posts from fighter intercept controllers, programmers, designers etc. I have reached out to these folks seeking info on what role SAGE may have played in tracking NWA 305 and vectoring F 106 interceptors from McChord's GCI/SAGE center. Will let you know if I get any useful info. I have asked about what kind of records were kept about SAGE tracking. It was a MONSTER system, used tens of thousand of VACUUM TUBES performing as digital logic elements with the world's largest digital magnetic core memory at the time. The memory may have just been for CPU computation use, not to create replayable radar track records. Will keep the forum posted on any feedback I get. We will get a lot more certainty if we learn EXACTLY where Cooper exited. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Damn, wish I had thought of that clever (and true) reply. Good one Zing! We need a few more laughs on this forum. The mood seems to be getting a little thick lately. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't get chased out SafecrackingPLF. You have contributed a lot to the Cooper analysis. Don't get run off by critics. Roll with it, do an online PLF. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

more first hand info from on McChord radar and SAGE from Richard (Dick) McLaughlin's website: "My duty at McChord was a little different as instead of radar, it was now called "SAGE" for Semi-Automatic Ground Environment. It was a 4-story building and one entire floor was computers and instead of the small radar screen, it was large and took in a 600-mile radius of McChord. The smaller radar stations such as I had been stationed at were feeding their data to SAGE so it was a consolidation effect." 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Almost no such thing as a whuffo anymore. You have to look hard to find anyone who hasn't made a tandem jump. Keep em coming, paying three figures per jump so that we can jump for 10% of what they pay and DZs can stay solvent. You will never ever hear me badmouth tandem jumpers, even if I get bumped off a load to accommodate them. Let's welcome everyone to the Cooper forum, whuffos, one jump wonders and seasoned jumpers alike... even the guy who has his big macho truck plastered with skydiving stickers and has only jumped once, strapped to a tandem master. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Been doing a lot of reading about military air defense GCI radar in the Cooper era. Looks like tapes running at GCI stations in that era only recorded radio voice comms, not radar video. UK GCI radar in the early 70s recorded the scope on 35mm film, one frame per sweep. US likely had the same radar scope film cameras, but I have yet to find a reference that confirms it. McChord AFB was part of the SAGE system so it got data from VERY sophisticated surveillance and height finding GCI radars located at Mt Hebo AFB in Oregon. See below: "The US Air Force's 689th Radar Squadron was a vital air defense unit during the Cold War. The Squadron was located at Mount Hebo Air Force Station, Oregon, from October 1956 to June 1979. The 689th Radar Squadron's long range radars were part of the Air Force Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) computer directed system for air defense. Available Squadron electronic equipment was able to support the detection, identification, and destruction of enemy aircraft. This was accomplished by communications between the SAGE computer at McChord AFB, the radars and communications systems at Mt. Hebo, and airborne fighter-interceptor aircraft such as the supersonic F-106 Delta Dart jet. The 689th Radar Squadron was originally assigned to the SAGE Portland Air Defense Sector at Adair Air Force Station, Oregon. Later it became part of the 25th Air Division SAGE at McChord AFB, Washington." One thing we do know: Cooper's caper took place in view of some of the very best air defense radar in the world. Whether and how the radar display was recorded, and whether any voice tapes or screen films remain, is still an open question. The scrambling of F 106 interceptors virtually guarantees that this radar was painting NWA 305 during the hijack. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

"Now at fifteen thousand, indicated airspeed is 160knts, Fuel Flow 4000 lbs/min (???I guess??), flaps at 15 degrees, gear down condition. Will stay at Ten Thousand until he has left. Flt Operations: Received message." Good catch Sluggo!!! Transcription error? Makes no sense. You would have had the crew donning oxygen masks if they were at 15K unpressurized, right? The 727 cabin pressure warning horn sounds if cabin altitude exceeds 10K. To me, it says there are LOTS of small errors in all the "facts" reported about what happened that night possibly including radar info erroneously plotted onto ground maps. We need to go back to SOURCE MATERIAL, VHF radio tapes, ATC radar tapes which should have alt reporting from NWA 305's transponder, etc. Still, cannot fathom flying above 10K at any time if a guy with a bomb tells you not to. Fuel flow is lbs per hour most likely, not per minute. The only plane I know that could burn anywhere even close to 4000 lbs a minute was an SR 71 in full afterburner at low altitude, and it probably burned less than half that number. Jets flying at low altitude are fuel hogs big time. There was a UAL DC 8 that crashed into the Portand Oregon suburbs flying around the area at low altitiude trying to resolve a very minor problem. By the time they were ready to make their approach to land they didnt have enough fuel to reach the airport and went down with all four engines flamed out. No post crash fire, no fuel. I too would like to see the TTY logs and also hear the voice tapes from ATC and NWA company radio frequencies on which NWA 305 communicated. There were no RTTY sets in NWA 727s in 1971, 99.9999% sure, so any info from NWA 305 was either data from their altitude reporting transponder or VHF voice comms. I am convinced that the TTY printouts we have seen were typed by company radio operators on the ground. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

"The flight path is known up to 8:12 based on USAF radar." Why only up to 8:12? Surely it was on someone's radar after that. Am I misunderstanding your post? 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

There isnt enough evidence to prove either survival or death. If someone were being prosecuted for homicide for throwing Cooper out of the plane, you'd have a tough time proving that a death had occured much less who the alleged victim was. A motion to dismiss would likely be granted. With identity and death so uncertain, I dont think you could get the case to a jury if the accused had a good lawyer. I used to think that the fact that nobody likely to have been Cooper turned up missing argued strongly for his survival. I no longer think so. An alienated loner who moves from his last place of residence without telling anybody where he is going could die and who would know? If he were essentially friendless, not close to any relatives, not collecting Social Security and were unemployed, how would his death become noticed? I think the carry and bury explanation or any human transport explanation for the found money seems very unlikely, but still possible. Natural transport seems the most likely explanation to me, but yes, it is just a hunch. The plane track is second hand position info and second hand position info can be wrong, even in extremely important situations. I'd be more aligned with you if we saw actual radar plots, overlayed on a map with confirmed radar to map registration, not people's conclusions about radar plots. As crazy as it sounds I think the 727 plot could easily be off by a couple of miles or more and the exit time be off by quite a few minutes. Mistakes happen, wrong assumptions are made, etc etc. I do not think the found money points to Cooper's survival. It is just as consistent with his death the way I look at it. I do agree that if he pulled he lived, but did he pull? I can think of a very likely no pull scenario given all the factors present that night. Although I jumped from a DC 9 jet, the highest speed exit I ever did was from a C 130. The Herc throttles were firewalled when we exited. The purpose of the high speed jump was to test some black boxes strapped to me and some others containing pressure sensing electronics. I was asked to make an unstable exit, so that was my excuse, but I think I would have been unstable no matter what my plan was. It was crazy, like being in a high speed washing machine. Had I not been a skydiver and known that I would be slowing down, it would have been a panicky situation. If Cooper had only done military static line jumps then a high speed exit at night might totally disorient and panic him. I do a lot of hiking and in my area, Vultures find animal carcasses without fail once they start rotting. There must have been some savvy locals who knew that and were on the lookout after the jump made the news. What if someone found Cooper's body with a substantial amount of cash? What then? The guy is already dead so you don't have to harm anyone, the money is in small bills, you have some debts... 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

SafecrackingPLF, I really admire your careful analysis. I still think the flight path and/or exit point data could be erroneous. I have seen similar things happen in marine disasters, somehow a mistake is made and the assumed location of a distressed vessel is waaay off the mark. When we would find floating wreckage or identifiable boat debris we'd figure out the upwind/upcurrent vector and go up it hoping to find survivors. There were many times that wreckage was found in places that could not be reconciled with the distressed vessel's last known position or dead reckoned assumed position or reported radar contacts. The obvious conclusion was that the position data was incorrect. One SOLID piece of location evidence is the found money. The most likely explanantion is that it got there naturally and was not "carried and buried". There are no doubts about where it was found. If it doesnt fit with the assumed flight track then MY inclination is to doubt the accuracy of the flight track or exit point info rather than coming up with an unlikely (but admittedly possible) scenario involving post jump human transport of the found money. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am beginning to think a no pull may have occured. Consider the circumstances: night, cold, high speed exit, possibly no freefall experience, unstable, unfamiliar gear, and maybe an NB6 packed so tight that a normal pull force wouldn't dislodge the pins from the cones, making him think he was pulling on the wrong piece of hardware and letting go of it. Look how many skydivers have done a no pull after a cutaway, in daylight with very specific emergency procedures training. Some have even done a no pull without a cutaway. Look at Jan Davis's no pull off El Capitan in Yosemite using unfamilar borrowed gear. If Cooper were depending on being able to see the ripcord handle he'd have some problems after an unstable high speed night exit. Also, the bag may have flopped up in a way that prevented free access to the ripcord handle. I remember some of my earliest solo FF jumps in the 60s (no AFF back then)... spinning wildly, no altimeter, trying to get stable. It was very disorienting even with a slow exit in bright daylight. My jumpmaster told me stories (true?) about FF students going in pulling desperately at webbing until impact thinking it was their ripcord handle. He told me if I did that he'd kill me. He thought that was really funny. If Cooper had a no pull, his body could be hidden by brush for many years, perhaps forever. If he was a total loner who had just moved away from his last place of residence and not yet put down roots, his absence may have gone unnoticed. I want him to have survived, but I am wondering if he did. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I agree with Ckret. Cooper was planning to jump not very long after takeoff, perhaps into suburbs or outskirts, but not wilderness. Even though it looks like he didnt necessarily plan to jump at night, he must have known it would be evening, and what does he wear? Not even a parka. No hiking shoes, etc. If he thought that he'd be making a night jump into the terrain we think he exited over, he'd have dressed differently, even if just for comfort rather than survival. This wasn't a spur of the minute caper formulated on the plane. He planned, built a "bomb" and researched 727 systems. He must have given some thought to suitable clothing for the jump. He didnt have to dress like a paratrooper. A parka and hiking shoes would not have seemed out of line for a passenger in that area. His attire tells me that he never anticipated exiting where he actually did. I'd bet he was familiar with the general area too and had a plan on how to quickly blend back into civilization unnoticed. That would require landing close to civilization. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Yes, Joe DiMaggio used the money to buy a sniper rifle so that he could kill the man who was seeing Marilyn Monroe. Then, he buried the rest of the money on the grassy knoll. We have all been looking in the wrong place. Cooper disappeared in mid air. The best minds in the FBI and in skydiving have found no evidence to the contrary. There is a fourth dimension. I have missing socks to prove it. The USAF won't release the radar tapes because they show the UFO that kidnapped Cooper. Case closed. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

ATC radar info is no big deal but if USAF air defense intercept radar was used, don't expect to see raw data released to the public, especially after 911. Many radar operators have no idea that jumpers' echos can be seen and would dispute it if you asked them. It is possible that nobody even thought to look very carefully for a Cooper echo because nobody thought he could relect a radar signal. I wish the FBI could ask the USAF to examine ALL their radar tapes (intercept as well as ATC) telling them what to look for, and see if they can find a Cooper exit echo. Cooper's exit point isnt a national security issue but USAF air defense radar coverage, resolution and fighter intercept tactics are, especially after terrorists have revived the relevance of hostile aircraft in domestic airspace. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

FROM WIKIPEDIA: "The F-106 was equipped with the Hughes MA-1 integrated fire-control system, which could be linked to the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) network for ground control interception (GCI) missions, allowing the aircraft to be steered by controllers." Remember, F 106s were tasked with intercepting incoming enemy planes entering the US Air Defense Zone, back when Russian bombers were believed to pose a viable threat to the continental US. It was a fanatasic plane, way ahead of its time, but the intercept computing electronics were problematic. Don't know if the F 106s chasing NWA 305 were under full SAGE control, probably not, but I bet that their GCI (ground controlled intercept) controllers giving them voice info were looking at precision radar which included height finding gear not present on normal ATC radar. ATC radar relies on altitude reporting aircraft transponders to get height info. If we had height finding radar also painting the 727 that night then we have another chance of seeing a Cooper echo and it would be VERY distinct because of its unique changes in altitude, basically following a ballistic trajectory. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.