JaapSuter

Hi, does Lauterbrunnen have any sites that are suitable for terminal beginners? What about the Italian big wall? I've heard conflicting reports. Some say it's a great and easy wall, but others (and Nick's list) contradict this. Trying to plan a Europe trip this fall, and I won't be able to get to Norway. Are there any other good beginner sites I'm overlooking? I'm mostly looking for the high stuff. PM if you have to get into site details. Thanks, Jaap

True, but unfortunately also rather remote and expensive.

Just in BC, the Yukon and the Northwest Territories there are more walls than a single person could possibly jump in a lifetime. The problem is accessibilty. I think less than five percent of the landmass that makes up those provinces is reachable by roads. So unless you own a helicopter, this drastically reduces the number of potential walls. I know of two terminal walls that have been jumped, one that is being jumped and at least five that will see attempts within the next two years. Admittedly, none of them are as high as what northern Norway has to offer. There is still plenty of fun to be had though. I don't, but try getting in touch with the local dropzone, perhaps they might know more.

Have you ever tried getting a job with jail-time on your record? Have you ever tried applying for immigrant status or citizenship with jail-time on your record? Have you ever tried entering the United States as a non-US-citizen with jail-time on your record? Have you considered that a 2nd and definitely a 3rd bust will result in more severe punishment, meaning you might as well be careful with the first bust? Have you ever dropped the soap in the showers while you were in jail?

Why pay money when you can borrow one for free? Edited to add: Jason or somebody else, can you explain how much time there is usually between the first jumper of one group and the first of the next group? I'm trying to figure out if I can lend my rig to somebody in the first group and still make sure a person in the second or third group can pack and jump. Only problem would be if the canopy got wet in an earlier group, but I suppose I'll let them use my own primary rig in that case.

Very true. But that doesn't mean the goverment should fully legalize hard-drugs so innocent tax-payers end up seeing their money spend on the problems that drug-addicts cause. Likewise for BASE; I can imagine that the public's perception of BASE is one of a sport that, when fully legalized, will end up costing them money. Money that could also be spend on people that need it much harder. Definitely freedom over security, but those that enjoy freedom should also realize they have a duty to minimize impact on others.

1. I don't see the harm in the original post. Especially since the location has been edited out. It serves as a reminder that even when you get away, you might still have been seen. 2. I don't see the benefit of posting a full link to the original article. Those that really want to read it, will have to take the effort to find it. 3. I think some of the replies here have been a little bit harscher than necessary. 4. I agree with Ray that we shoulnd't be too paranoid. The majority of police officers out there still believe they have more important crimes to fight than base. 5. I'm shocked that somewhere somebody thinks BASE is worth a crime-stoppers phone number. Wow. And most importantly: 6. If somebody on this board thinks that an incident is serious enough to warrant a temporary radio silence, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and refrain from posting, speculating or dabbling. The locals can surely judge the situation better than anybody else, and I'm sure that if the time is right they'd come up with lessons, if there are any to be learned. Let's stop posting here and let this thread quietly and quickly dissapear from the forum frontpage.

Lending; not sure. Renting; definitely, I imagine possibly with a discount. I saw somebody jumping a rented canopy this weekend as her order was still awaiting delivery. Contact the manufacturers. They'll be able to tell you. For the record, I'm hearing stories of increased delivery times for most manufacturers, some up to several months. I guess the sport is growing. Manufacturers are trying to keep up, but not always as well as they'd like to. They're all doing massive overtime as far as I know.

If anybody needs a rig; I'm bringing two. Depending on what group you are in, you can use one of mine. Land on land and it's free. Land in water without a malfunction (line-over, line-twist, etc.) and it's 50 bucks and a beer. Land in water with a malfunction and the beer is on me. Dying in the rig means buying it. Both rigs have a 260 canopy. PM me if you're interested.

Mmmm, good point. Fair enough. Thanks!

I would hope that most of my post leave the impression that I'm in strong favour of sharing information on these boards as much as possible. However, in this particular instance I fail to see who is helped. Tom pointed out three reasons, but I don't find them very compelling. If I'm overlooking another good reason, please point it out.

Duh.

Please don't. Those that are interested enough can surely find it. Less information in fewer places seen by fewer people is better in this case. Thanks. Whenever you consider to post something incident related, ask yourself if this can help the base community in any possible way. More often than not, it can't.

Let me preface this post by stating I'm a strong proponent of evolution theory and freedom. The right to risk everything in pursuing a man's dream should be among the most principled of rights, even if that means risking life and limb. However, no right comes without duties. It is man's duty to minimize the burden on society on whatever path he follows. That means we strive to not hurt our friends and family, not rely on dangerous rescue operations and not put undue stress on the healthcare institution. These beliefs have me wondering about our quest for legal BASE in the national parks and force me to put on my Devil's Advocate hat and pose some difficult questions. I would like to see an ABP representative and other people to come up with their thoughts on these issues. First of all, I am quite convinced that less people have died in BASE because it is illegal in the US national parks. If it had been legal, more people would have been exposed, public enthusiasm would have been higher, more people would consider to get into base, more people would have made a base jump and inevitably more people would have gotten into accidents. From that point of view, the NPS is taking the right approach to BASE. I would even go as far as to argue that the amount of money they now spend on catching and prosecuting BASE jumpers is less than the amount of money society would otherwise have spend on rescue operations and resulting injury and recovery aftermatch. Admittedly, I can't substantiate this line of reasoning with any kind of numbers. One argument against this point of view is that the NPS does allow climbing, hanggliding and simple backcountry hiking; activities that every year cause a number of incidents that also require rescues and recoveries. While I think the public perception on the risks of BASE is exaggerated and biased, I also belief that BASE is substantially more dangerous than any of the above mentioned activities. This leads me to the next point. Imagine the hypotethical situation in which BASE jumping becomes legal the same way that climbing is legal. Suddenly we have a highly accessible terminal wall in what is currently the hotbed of BASE growth; California. No other location has more people getting into BASE with minimal preparation. I'm almost considering to move there; I'd be a perfect fit. One major advantage of Kjerag is its remote location. Getting back from the landing area requires a boat. This and the strenuous hike has led to a controlling body (the Stavanger BASE club) which as far as I know does an excellent job at maintaining safety at Kjerag. Without such a governing body near Yosemite, I will garantuee it will only be a matter of time before somebody with ten skydives does a jump from El Capitan, and hits the wall in front of several unsuspecting park visitors. The majority of people entering BASE jumping are still coming from a skydiving background. And let's be honest with ourselves, skydiving can be a sport for lazy people. I know plenty of skydivers that spend their days drinking beer and playing video games. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it can be quite enjoyable. However, you put any of these people in the remote backcountry without a compass and they'd be dead in two days. Similarly, you let some of them jump off El Capitan and problems will ensue. There is a big difference between climbing and BASE in this regard. If an unprepared climber starts climbing a 5.12c route, he gets up three holds and then steps off. He just can't do it, and realizes he needs to put in time and effort. If an unprepared base jumper starts jumping a terminal wall, there is no way back. He won't realize it actually takes time and effort until he collides with the wall. So before any of us attempt a protest jump or any fight for legalization at all, we need to come clean and ask ourselves what is that we want from the NPS. We need to ask ourselves what kind of burden different degrees of control may put on society. And most importantly, we need a debate on what the BASE community is promising to the NPS and the public. How are we going to make sure that legal jumping in the national parks doesn't create an increase in the number of incidents? It is easy to bring up that Kjerag, Bridge Day and the Potato bridge are run without major incidents. However, it is also easy to forget that Bridgy Day and the Potato bridge are much safer sites compared to El Cap, and that Kjerag has a governing body that is largely responsible for the safety record in Norway. Let me reiterate that I am strong proponent of fully legalized jumping anywhere in the world. I know that BASE itself is worth the risks. However, we need to realize that the public might see things differently once their tax-money is spend on rescue and recovery and their park experience ruined by traumatic accidents. We need to understand where they come from and realize they have a point. Please prove me wrong and show that the BASE community and the world as a whole can responsibly handle legal jumping. Until then, I'll take off my Devil's Advocate hat, and go do some more jumps from the Potato this weekend. Three, two, one, see ya! Jaap Suter

Certainly. Even more so if you include Canada and Mexico, where it is legal too. Nothing is as well organized or accessible as Norway is though. Doing anything terminal in North America will always remain an expedition style jump, unlike the jump-trains that exist in Norway.

Not quite. It depends on the object and delay. On static-line jumps and PCA's, I exit very head high, pretty much vertical. This minimizes swing in the harness, which means I have more time for proper flight, which in turn helps on low jumps with short canopy flights. There is a good discussion about this on the Blinc forums, right now. For longer delays, I start falling flatter, from 45 degrees to even horizontal. Partially because it allows you to fall more stable, it also presents the canopy extraction to the cleanest air. If you watch a lot of videos of terminal jumps, you'll notice that on terminal jumps, some jumpers even exit a little head low to gain speed and get into their track fast. I'm not an expert in this area (nor am I in the others admittedly, but I have at least done some slider-down jumps), so I'm not going to comment on it. The bottom line is that your angle depends on the object and the delay, that distance is more important than angle, and that stability is the most important thing. Find a five meter tower. These don't have the springboard bounce of the three meter ones, but aren't too high like the seven meter towers. Then exit like a proper base exit (I'd say for practice about 45 degrees, head high, eyes on the horizon seems about right) and start falling. Than just as you're about to hit the water, tuck your knees and elbows in, absorbing your impact with your lower legs and lower arms. This has worked really well for me, aside from the odd looks you get from the people around you. Alternatively, or complementary, you can also practice base exits from the side of the pool. I would, in fact, start out by doing this. Just stand right at the edge of the water, and jump in. I won't hurt too bad. Unless you do it wrong, and then pain is a great teacher. Two cents...

That looks great. It makes a good statement, and I imagine a few people will be surprised that, despite our cliche image, base jumpers managed to come up with such a professionally written document. Great work! I would like to second this. Now is not the time to start yelling, cursing or calling people names, however emotional you might feel about this situation. Your appearance alone makes a valuable impression, which can only be strengthened by politeness and solid argumentation. One question about the brief; it mentions: Can an ABP representative elaborate on this?

I would be very worried about the charges laid upon the main organizers and instigator of such an event. Most likely, they would face heftier penalties. Also, read: http://www.vertical-visions.com/nps.php Finally, don't underestimate the lazyness of the base jumping community. It's one thing to write on the boards, it's a whole other thing to actually travel hundreds of miles to show up at a protest that could result in getting arrested. Didn't the Flatbed 10 try to drive a truck up there because they didn't want to hike that much? I'm going to get flamed for this, but we still have too much skydiving blood among us, and too little climbing blood.

Is he gonna come then too? Say hi to him, next time you see him. And stay away from that antenna for a while if you want to save your own balls.

You need some rings? I can bring them.

Sorry, didn't mean to take a stab at Abbie here. I think that there is great potential and support for an act of civil disobedience. However, I also think that, all bravado aside, such a plan should not be taken lightly and be approached with the utmost care. If anybody were to get hurt on such a protest jump, it would set us back many years. In my opinion that implies setting minimum requirements for jumpers, in terms of accountability, trustworthiness and experience. I would rather see ten jumpers and fifty decoys, than sixty jumpers. Imagine the political turmoil such an invite-only event could cause in the North American base community. I won't jump El Cap as long as it is illegal. The potential consequences are not worth the jump to me. However, the cause transcends the jump. I'll happily play decoy, get arrested, have my gear confiscated and spend money on a fine. Tell me when, and I'll be there.

Count me in, for any of the above plans. I'll be there! I can provide two extra rigs for non-jumping decoys. Does anybody with a solid reputation and organizing experience want to start something?

Hero

Yeah, I like this idea, although I would put them near landing areas. 736 and I were discussing the same thing last weekend. For a remote jump site, one could do a dedicated visit to the landing area (without jumping) and bury/hide a kit with first-aid tools, a sealed water container, blanket, etcetera. One never knows when it could come in handy.

Has more information become available yet?