davegresh

There isn't much difference between the two different viewpoints. After the from the most recent aircraft accident in the UK, the BPA produced form F261 which gives details of recommended procedures in the event of a crash landing (its on the website www.bpa.org.uk). The advice they give is that tandem pairs should be disconnected if crash landing is inevitable. Which is what i was suggesting a few posts up; if you realise that your going to crash land, its only going to take a couple of seconds to disconnect your student. The only way the 'BPA' way will make a difference is if you crash immediately on or just after takeoff. Even then, its down to the particular circumstances of the crash as to whether it makes any difference, and so far no one has presented anything other than anecdotal evidence that having them disconnected is going to be safer. Does the USPA (or anyone else) publish similar guidance, or is it down to SOP's? I still think that having them connected is 'better' as you have the advantage that should you have a problem at altitude, you can exit immediately, and with all 4 points attached. I would'nt like to be trying to connect the student in a rapidly descending aircraft full of panicking people At the end of the day, i'm happy with the way us 'backwards' brits do things

All interesting opinions. I'm a little suprised people see this as such a cut and dried decision, as we are talking about crash landings which by their nature must be fairly unpredictable. And we are then talking about a crash landing where the TM is disabled, but the passenger is able and needs to get out fairly quickly. Maybe the BPA's approach takes into account that we all have to wear helmets, which may affect the chances of the TM becoming disabled, and we all carry hook knives, which may make it easier to get out of seat belts etc. One thing i like about the BPA is that they tend to be very cautious about changing things that work unless there is a good reason to. Apart from the Australian incident mentioned previously, has there been other incidents where the situation was made worse by the student and TM being attached during takeoff? One thing i have found unusual at some (USPA) DZ's is seeing how they load the bigger aircraft, especially tailgates like Skyvans. I've seen the students on one side of the plane (with seatbelts), and the TM's 6feet away on the other, and they stay that way until just before exit. To me, that looks the worst of both worlds. If you crash land after takeoff, the TM won't be in a position to help the student (assuming they are able to). And if you have a problem above exit altitude, you've got to get over to the student before you can hook them up and get out. Not saying this is wrong, as these people have more experience than i have, just curious what people think?

Nope. never done tandems out of a 182 or 206, and i'm quite happy about that. They are common jumpships in the UK though, and i've seen 206's loaded with 2 tandem pairs plus one other jumper and it seems to work. Don't know if you'd call it comfortable. I've never been in a plane crash either, which i'm also quite happy about.

I quite like the way we do it in the UK, with the student attached at all 4 points from take off. If everything is going OK, it's comfortable for the instructor and student, and you don't have to worry about the door being open, hooking up at altitude etc. If you have an emergency above your minimum exit height, you can be out of the aircraft in a couple of seconds. If you're lower down and have to land with the plane, I think that 'all bets are off' - what's good for one crash scenario may not be the right thing in another. I think that bad jumpship crashes are so rare there's no absolute right or wrong answer. If i did have to make a forced landing, I'd be inclined to keep the student as close as possible. that way there is less chance of them moving around and injuring themselves or others. And if you wanted the student unattached so they can get out of the crash on the ground, its only going to take a couple of seconds to disconnect the student once you realise that the aircaft is going down. FWIW i do most of my tandems out of Grand Caravans, and we sit on the floor and use restraints rather than seats and seatbelts.