Belgian_Skygirl

Maybe you should just stand up and say... I can be fun too! You shouldn't keep a low profile at the dz, just give people the oppportunity to see another side from you as well and maybe it is better to keep a low profile on our Belgian forum. And maybe just go with the flow... I know you are cool, OK maybe you think too much about some things but that makes part of who you are. But on the internet sometimes you sound like a teacher... this has got nothing to do with you being right or not,... I think people don't like that... and I know your concern is to jump. The reactions are not fun, I know... but maybe you should judge a little bit less... I think everybody has an opinion, but spreading it... sometimes it is not worthed... maybe you still don't have the authority and it is not accepted. I repeat, I haven(t jumped for a while, I don't have much experience and it is not about being right or wrong... it is just about: what can we do to help you to regain motivation... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Hi Thijs, We know each other a little bit and I don't think there is anything wrong with you. I used to jump at your dz (I am having a break due to personal matters), but people at you dz are fun and so are you. Maybe, just maybe you should accept (and so do the fellow jumpers) that people are unique and have different characters... and even on the forum, it is not always about being right or not... sometimes people just have to watch themselves first. It happens that people do not match together, and maybe this should be accepted by everybody. I like most people and get along with most people... serious people but fun people as well... and yes, when I read on our forum, you sometimes have a point (I think, but as I haven't jumped for a while, I don't know what things are like right now at our dz), but other people are sometimes right as well... and when you say things maybe the wrong people take it personal? However, I like you, and I like the other jumpers as well and I hope to see all of you very soon. I agree with what is told here... maybe you should change dz... maybe you should change your behaviour to make sure that other people's behaviour will change along. Maybe it is nobody's fault that you feel bad and unaccepted, but maybe it just happened and I am sure it is all due to misunderstanding each other... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

As I am from Belgium and this thread is very long... could some-one please tell me the exact problem with Skyride? I have the impression they are not ethical and take advantage of people? Am I mistaken if I found that people react emotional on them? If not, why is this the case? Normally I would be in the States right now, but due to personal circumstances I had to postpone it for a year. I will not visit the States just to skydive, but of course I will visit some dropzones to do some jumps. If Skyride is that bad, I don't want to go there... but I need to know why and where their dz's are situated. I hope you guys understand what I am saying. The fact that so many people here at dz. com respond negatively towards them is of course a very good reason to know something is wrong with that organization, but where can I find the info? I am very sorry, but reading over 1000nds of posts... I don't have the time.... I would be glad if somebody could tell me more about as I don't want to end up at their dz's if they really are that bad. Thank you in advance! ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Hi Niek, Welcome... Where in the Netherlands doe you jump (or do you intend to jumpt)? Groetjes, ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I am of course not an instructoer with my few jumps... but I have a question... you declined some double amputees. Is it that hard to fly them? I can imagine that having no legs could influence the freefall, but I am curious... is there a reaon those people should not do a tandem? You know, I once taked to a lady with 2 amputed legs and she wanted a skydive and she said she probably couldn't do it... it skipped my mind until this thread... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Well... maybe the drinking habbits are different in Europe (off topic). In Italy, France, Spain it is not unusual to take a glass of wine with dinner. It reminds me of a story. We were on a holiday in Portugal once and we met a couple that used to live in the States. They asked for a bottle of wine in a restaurant (dinner) and they were asked: a whole bottle? They had the feeling they were considered as alcoholics, whil here it is not unusual to drink a bottle of wine while having dinner in a restaurant. Of course, this is not done dayly or at home... But at our dz there is a strict alcohol restriction during the activities, even for non-jumpers. In £empuria f.i. one can have a beer if I am not mistaken, but I never saw a jumper drinking during the activities... but this may be just what I saw and I had other things to do of course .... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Well, a tandem is a tandem and there are lots of beautiful places on the mainland of Europe... and prices? well, they differ, but the differences are not huge. Near to Barcelona, there is Empuria. Empuria is great to do a skydive... nice beaches, a beautiful city (the old town is very small but pittoresque and the new part ... it is a worth a visit with all the water.... you can compare it with Venice). It is at about 1 hour from barcelona. It is the region of Dahli... in a neigbouring village you can visit one of most remarkable architectural works of Dahli... You are not far from the mountains either, so plenty of opportunities to do exciting sports. And yes, skydive is expensive. But it is expensive everywhere. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

idd, and one can rent an appartment during the holiday. We did it last summer and it was great. Some weeks ago i was told that de swimming pool at the dz will make place for a windtunnel and that one cannot swim overthere, but i don't know whether it is just gossip or not. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

At our dz no alcohol is being served at alle during the activites. Whoever wants to have a beer will have to wait untill the jump activities are finished. Visitors of the dz follow the same policy. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I am sorry for the intrusion, as I am not an instructor. I only have about 75 jumps, but all my AFF levels were caught on tape by my instructor . As you know an AFF course is expensive and I did not have the money to be videod. However, the shootings from my instructor helped me a lot to undertand what I did wrong... and I am very gratefull he filmed me. I don't know if there are any risks involved. I only know it helped a lot. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

The risk is acceptable as long as things go well, and they are not if they turn out bad. I think there is a difference ebtween an acceptable risk for society and an acceptable risk for an individual. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Within 2 weeks I hope to start to jump again. I haven't jumped since the end of August, due to non-skydiving related injuries and bad weather. I am really looking forward to going back, but I feel a little bit afraid again... I have landing fear. I know I have to jump with an instructor, but you know, my landings were getting better and I was about to downsize to a Specter 150, but the weekend I was going to, I had those injuries. Now I wonder.... I know I cannot jump with the 150 immediately... so should I jump with a 170? A 190? A 200, Or bigger? I only have 75 jumps and due to illness and stress I weigh 98 lb. I want to start confident. Thank you in advance for your opinions. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I am glad both of you are ok. Last summer, I was almost the victim of a canopy collision... a girl with only 3 solo's was talking (under canopy, yelling is a better word) to her friends and she was looking to them, and came in my direction. She was above me... I saw a foot at my right side, so I turned left. Once landed I got very angry, as she wasn't paying attention at all at the canopies around her. I was very lucky. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

If you don't like to jump any more, just don't...I met a guy from about 50 years old some time ago and he told me he had jumped for over 20 years. 8 years ago he got bored. He quit. Now he found himself new hobby's: he goes to the north pole once a year for 4 days to drive a snow scooter, to live in the colde etc..; he started to dive, ... and he doesn't feel sorry about his decision. A sport of a hoby must be enjoyable, especially higr risk hobby's or sports s.a. skydiving as if one does not enjoy it any more, the risk remains... and it is an expensive sport: spending lots of money on something which isn't fun any more... it is a pitty... I am rather a newbie in the skydive world, but I always do what I like to do and I don't what I don't like to do ... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

This summer in Empuria, there were 2 kids that went to Empuria as well (the younger brothers of the couple that came with us) and they did a tandem. They were 12 anr 13 years old and the instructor said that kids generally spoken act very natural. Of course... he has got stories as well from skydiving parents that absolutely wanted their kids to do a tandem... and they were terrified at the door and grabed everything they could. In those cases the JM don't jumps. The 2 kids that came along at our holiday wanted to jump... and it was not the idea of their sister and skydiving husband... they just wanted to do it and at the end they finally got what they wanted. Their parents sent a fax to the dz to give their permission and the kids were very very very happy. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I agree with everything said before... The reason why there are few minorities that jump... I think it is due to money... in most countries, the minorities don't have the well paid jobs. Skydiving is expensive. In my opinion (I say opinion, so I don't know if I am correct) it could be a matter of culture as well... we have a rather individual culture and people do whatever they want (I am exaggerating, I know... it is just to make a point)... in many other culture, people tend to fit in the family or community values: if they are told by there community that skydiving is odd and not done, they won't as acceptance is important to them. You must know many of my family members don't like me to jump... but they won't excommunicate me... I can imagine an indian girl finds it more difficult than me to do whateevr she wants, and this is surely the case for skydiving. I think we had a discussion about it somewhere, but i don't remember where exactly. This is a question that should be asked to the minorities I guess... In the Bonfire there was the topic: Does Race or Religion really matter??? But again, I don't think most of us are what you call minorities. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

in France it is 7m/s... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Nobody stated that it is ok to put out a student in high winds. This discussion is not about making students to jump in high winds: to clear things out: this shouldn't be allowedIt is about student material that should be adapted to a person (in ideal circumstances).. However... during my AFF course I had an exit weight of 105 lb... Please find below link to a table I found for student canopies (ZP Manta): http://www.flightconcepts.com/zpmanta.html When you run through this table, you see the maximum wingloading for each size of the ZP Manta. Smalles Manta's seem to exist and are made for the needs of a student. It is a characteristic of the ZP. I had to learn to jump with the ZP Manta 290 just like the other students, which is made for for a maximum suspended weight of 290 LBS, with an exit weight of 105 LB, I could weight almost 3 times as much and still be jumping this huge canopy. So with a litte bit of wind, I was grounded already. Of course... it was the right decision for an instructor to take! I completely agree, an instructor must not only take into consideration the weather circumstances, but the gear as well. Someone with an exit weight of 200 lb had to use the same canopy. I went through this stage without any serious problems, I once sprankled my ankle due to a too big canopy and than it was decided by my instructors that I should downsize to at least a 170. According to my lightweight experience (though I don't have that much jumps like most of you) I experienced typical problems due to being that light, which for some of you only appears in strong winds. I think it would have been better to have learnt to land a smaller ZP manta canopy (for students): it would have been much better for my self esteam (which is ok now) Being blown away in normal wheather conditions is not fun when one is stressed and students are more likely to be stressed. So a real lightweight jumper could only jump when it is windstill or with very very very little wind. Other students can improve as they can bear a bit more wind . A girl at our dz has got an exit weight below 100 lb and she is terrified to jump as she is more subject to turbulence while landing. There is not enough weight in the scale. At the end, the continued her course with a fury. Things went better, but still she hardly descended. I made a calculation. A person with an exit weight of 110 lb should jump a ZP Manta with a canopy for max. 159 lb suspended weight (which of course does not exist for a student canopy as a small canopy is far more reactive) when compared with a 200 lb person under a ZP Manta 290 (max susped weight of 290). i made a calculation. I don't have the experience to know if that is ok or not. That is something for an instructor. As the lines are shorter, a small canopy becomes more reactive, and we should not forget that. Don't understand me wrong, I am not saying a student must jump a very small canopy, but for the really lightweight people, there is a choice between the ZP Manta 185, the 200 and the 230 and there are dz's that have a wide range of student canopies, other dz's haven't. A 280 is far too huge. This is what the discussion is about according to me. I understand that a dropzone must take into consideration the costs and for one very tiny person a year, I perfectly understand that buying such material is nos cost efficient. I am certainly not pleading to give a student a very small canopy that is far too reactive for his or hers experiency level, I am pleading for giving them the same learning curve. Being grounded in normal wheather circumstances when other students are allowed to jump is not good for practice, as in the beginning it is very important to jump regularly for your own safety. being grounded most of the time is not good for one's self esteem and practice. With a smaller canopy those people should be able to jump in normal weather. Of course, as I stated before: when there is no material available, I completely agree with instructors to not make the student jump when he or she risks to be blown backwards/away. This is my 2 cents. And yes, before all the canopies were big, and all of us had to go through this stage and I am not saying it isn't the case. I just wanted to bring under the attention that I agree due to my experience with the point of view of the starter of this topic. I don't want to complaint, because I am through this stage and it went well, I just wanted to tell the way I feel, even though I am not that experienced like most of you. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

Student canopies should be more forgiving in general and therefor they are student canopies. Whether they are huge manta's or small student canopies. They should be manufactored forgiving. I know I once sprankled my ankles as well, but while suddenly a wind came op and blow me backwards on the moment my feet were about to touch the ground :(. I still was not standing on my feet, so I put down my feet, and stepped backwards as I was flying backwards. But falling with smaller canopies happens with a higher speed I guess, and of course, they are more reactive. So it is true they are less forgiving. I never said they weren't and I completely agree with you. However... don't you think that a fat guy that flies a manta lands faster, is less a subject to wind that a tini person below 50 kilo's flying the same student canopie? This is what the discussion is about. The fact me downsizing is just a way to say that I am less subject to wind with a smaller canopy. It was the same when I was still a student. You know, my fellow jumpers watched me while landing, went in to take a cup of coffe, and still found me in the air after they fetched their coffee? I am not exaggerating. Of course... I do not fly student canopies any more because there aren't smaller ones at our dz, so I had to do something and under guidance I did. I know you are no instructor and I didn't want to offend you. I just wanted to say that i take only downsize under guidance of an instructor. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I know. The canopy instructors I met (several instructors in Europe) all say I should fly a 150 (square or semi eleptical) for at least 100 jumps. I do it not on my own, but ask instructors to watch me and give advice. Some fellow jumpers laugh with my safety attitude, but I want to do things properly. I don't know if you fly backwards when the wind is 7m/s... that you land backwards, that so called safe canopies give more turbulence that the 150... One day I had had it and I asked a 'canopy instructor' to watch me and he said my problems are a result from my wingloading problems. The Spectre 150 is just fine... to be honest, I don't do crazy things... very classical, no crazy turns... 100 -150 jumps with this one and than I will see... maybe I will stay at the 150, maybe I will take the 135, but still more than 100 jumps to go with the Spectre 150... I want to focus on that. I know that smaller canopies are more reactive. I have 75 jumps now, my weight is 46 kilo's and the 150 is much more stable and finally I can pull my frontrisers down! Can you imagine how difficult it was to land a manta with a little bit of wind? I notice that when I pull a toggle it turns fast... Of course the canopies I flew up to now were not custom made: the lines from the toggles were too long... But, don't you agree that a proper wingloading for student canopies can be important? Student canopies are made for students, one cannot pull them in stall f.i. etc... ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I agree with you. BUT: it depends. When there is wind 7m/s and a student, weight: 85 kilo's will probably experience no problems while landing his manta student canopy. A light person (45 kilo's) with the same experience level flying the very same student canopy will probably find it more difficult to land. The windfactor is very important for a student, but the canopy size matters as well. And of course: too much wind should imply a jump limit for aal students! But too much wind for a light person may be good enough for a heavy jumper as the canopies are the same! This discussion is about student gear/canopies for light weight students. I agree that there is a lack of meterial for rather extreme light jumpers. If a light student could fly a student canopy that would feel the same as a student canopy for normal and heavier people, they should be able to jump in wind with 7m/s as well (I talk in meters and kilo's as I am from Europe). But I fully understand why it isn't feasable for a dz to buy this kind of material. Especially because people don't jump in student rigs fore ever and as there are few light weight jumpers. At my dz there is a tiny girl with a weight of 40 kilo's, even lessen than my weight... and it is extremely hard for her to land a Fury. And I agree, I am almost sure that there should be a jump limit, taking into consideration the experience, number of jumps and gear. I know that in Empuria there was once a jump limit for 50 jumps. I had 55 jumps. I flew a 170 that day, and I didn't jump as the canopy was too big for me. With a 150 or smaller, there would have been no problem, but I din't have that experience yet, so I decided not to jump. I just want to say that jump limit does not say everything. These are 2 different discussions in my eyes. Im through the student canopy stage and I must say that it would have been more convenient to me to have learnt to jump wit a smaller student canopy. However, I understand the dz as money is an issue. Maybe there are max. 2 tiny jumpers a year or even less... but I was told several times that jumping with a too big canopy can be as dangerous as jumping with a to small canopy. i think this is the discussion. On the other hand, it was no problem to jump with huge student canopies, only was I grounded much easier than others, which was a good measure from the instructors, but it worked on my self esteem. Other students were allowed to jump and I wasn't, so they had more practice. I had bad luck: in 2004 it was rather windy and I was grounded week after week... my self esteem got below zero. I was told if there were smaller student canopies, I would not have been grounded, as long as winds were max. 7m/s. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I completely agree... but I wanted to say something else with my statement... due to my poor landing skills with big student canopies, it was concluded that it was safer for me not to jump. On my skydiving holiday there was much more wind (Empuria is a windy place to jump) and they gave me a radio and a smaller canopy, and I landed perfectly. And it was quiet windy overthere, more than I was used to. And with a smaller canopy I was better in handling the canopy and to land properly. Now I don't listen any more: I use my common sense... is it windy (I know that I have to be carefull) I don't jump... I just wanted to say that if a canopy 'fits', it is easier to make a progression (also mentally) as there are more circumstances in which a lightweight person may jump. Of course everybody has to go through the huge canopy phases, but learning a person from 46 kilo to jump with the same student canopy of a person from 80 kilo's.. it makes a difference! ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I am a lightweight person. It was hard to learn how to fly a canopy: the gear itself is to big. Sometimes wind condition changes during your jump and one has to deal with it. When a canopy is too big, and there is not enough weight in it, you can fly backwards or even land backwards (happened to me several times), when you land and the weight is not enough, a lightweight person is more likely to suffer from turbulence, which makes it more difficult to land, student rigs are big and I can understand as well that a dropzone cannot afford it to buy some materials for tiny jumpers, as they are a minority. Stearing toggles are to long and thus it is more difficult to have a proper flare. Then there is the pressure from some fellow jumpers, almost double my weight: there is not too much wind, why don't you jump? Well, as a matter of fact, in my experience I fly away in this wind. I will fly backwards, even hanging against the wind. Why don't you pull your front risers to descend more easily... I do, but I pull myself up, in stead of pulling the nose of the canopy down. Are you afraid of falling and hurting yourself? When it is windy, I am idd ,as it is difficult to land properly when you fly backwards. You mustn't be afraid to fall as the impact is lower when you fall as you are lighter... etc... I hate all those remarks! I spoke in Empuria to a guy who is in charge of the canopy school and according to him it is more diffcult to learn to land properly with huge student rigs when you are light. He told me to do about 100 jumps with a 150 (I just started to do so), than go to a 135 and stay there or to downsize a bit more. And you know what: the 150 flies better for me, but stil: it was a bit windy... and I didn't fly backwards... not that that I flew forward like the others... when pulling the frontrisers, i was able to descend better etc... but... some people tell me to take a 120 as it won't matter to me. I know the following: I must go to a 135 at ease. Flying a 150 canopy is so much easier for me... I am finally able to land properly. And when I take a 170 it is much more difficult. Some people think that being light is an advantage, but for gear matters it is not the case, however, it didn't stop me from doing this wonderful hobby. I can't wait to pass to a 135, but I will do it the way the canopy instructor told me... he said that the wingloading is one thing, but that I have to take ino considertion the fact that the lines are shorter in small canopies and therefor small canopies are more reactive. I gained self confidence the moment the canopy wasn't that huge any more. However, the 150 still is big for me, but it is so much better than the bigger canopies... Being grounded due to wind really sucked,but it was necesary, but wasit a soution? I don't know. Some people say one can downsizefrom the moment he masters his canopy (and landings), but I wasn't able to do so... only when I jumped with a 150 it really improved. ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I am not a base jumper, you can call me a whuffo in basejump. I won't say anything about how god she is in base, how well she did, etc.;. I can't judge it. However... I wonder... and please correct me if I am wrong: 1. the girl is under age and parents are responsible for her. 2. You are an adult and you are responsible for her. The fact that she came here to tell us she does not go to school any more is not an adult reaction: it has nothing to do with the discussion!!!! Behaving responsible and as an adult adult would be telling us her partof the story and not just stating she is no longer a student. 3. The sport is illegal in most parts of the world. When things go wrong YOU will get the blame and the parents. 4. I can't judge whether one needs skydiving experience in order to basejump. Skidiving is a dangerous sport already, but base seems to me a bit more dangerous: being able to fall stable and to track without relative wind seems difficult to me, reactions must be faster... I don't know... During 50 seconds of freefall there is more time to practise some basic skills. 5. Isn't a base parachute more reactive? I don't know, I am just guessing on this one. Well, while doing aff there are two instrucors with you in the beginning to correct you. If you don't pull (brain lock) they will pull. Under canopy there is radio contact. Jumping from a tower means jumping near to an obstacle... If I am correct (as I stated before, I am a base whuffo), there are more risks involved in base than in skydiving. In my countrey, people are allowed to skydive from their 16... there is a legislation that allowes it and nobody gets the blame if something goes wrong. I just want to say... I believe it is possible to learn to basejump without having skydiving experience... but when I use my common sense, I don't think it is ideal. When I read the reactions of most other basejumpers in this forum, it seems they agree with that point of view. My question to you: do you really want to take the risk? It seems you do, so there is no discussion about that. Do you really think the girl is mature enough to calculate the risks? We can only say that as long as nothing goes wrong. The same about the parents. However, it is hard for me to imagine that the parents agree their daughter doing a basejump... but who am I to judge. But if you like it or not, I find this a delicate story. I don't think you can compare ski etc... with basejump. First of all ski is legal. One can get killed of course. But isn't it possible that in Base jump the risk of dying is higher? What would you do if she suddenly suffers from a brain lock? To Clair... why do you do this at this age? If something goes wrong with you at this age... other people get the blame. How did you meet Jimmy? How did you get interested in the sport? Do you read this thread? What do you think when you read the reactions of other skydivers and base jumpers? Do you understand them? ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

I can't display it, but the music seems ok to me ... I think I will have to use my imagination. you know, I heard a windtunnel will be built in Teuge... is this correct? ------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?