jenfly00

Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here Too many people have lied in the name of Christ For anyone to heed the call So many people have died in the name of Christ That I can't believe it all I'm flying in Winchester cathedral It's hard enough to drink the wine The air inside just hangs in delusion But given time I'll be fine From CROSBY, STILLS & NASH - Cathedral ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I think I saw some frequent SC posters cheering the crowds. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Agreed. They make their money selling the 'flag' to the new patriots. Accepting the ad would hurt business. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

That's what my first reaction is too--boys can handle it. We're socialized to think of boys as being tough from birth. We don't coddle them. They don't have feelings. Nothing tender about boys. And then, when they grow to be men, we complain about what we've made of them. Children are children, regardless of sex. A fourteen year old boy may be more interested in sex than a fourteen year old girl, but he's probably even less prepared to handle it emotionally. I think it was Tigra who said something about control. And that's exactly what it's about when an adult, male or female, takes advantage of a child. The damage done is incalculable, and we pay for it when such children grow up and make their way in the world. rl Well said! I read the responses of some of the men here and see validation of this view. Children should be allowed to be children and not have adults take advantage of them. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

"It's a Bush family tradition, I have to barf in your lap" Best laugh I've had all day. Thank you! ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Oh, now you're just being silly. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I guess that's what it comes down to for me also. In the choice between too much freedom or too little freedom, I have to go with the former. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Have you ever been to a fundamentalist tent revival??? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Can't say this upsets me. The US is gonna have to bite the bullet and and GTF out at some point. May as well be sooner. What amazes me is that damn near everyone knew we would end up pretty much precisely where we are now. That we had no winning end game. There was no possible winning end game in attacking and occupying one Arab country! The only way it makes any sense to me is that after 9/11, the US had to show the world we would kick major ass if fucked with. As primitive as this is, I kind of understand and to a limited degree support it. We went too far in trying to liberate the 'freedom loving people' of Iraq, however. Now I know you are going to start shouting your pet words again, chief of which is democrats. Politicians are all about survival. Following 9/11 with the tribal fires burning brightly and the war drums playing loudly to scare away the evil spirity, politicians realized to survive they had to go along and even feed the tribal fears in order to survive. Do I think that's right? Of course not, but even if you ousted the lot, you'd get as bad or worse to replace them. That's just the way it is. In short, we (all of US) got ourselves in a fucked up situation ...we need to get out of it the best we can and as soon as we can.. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Whoa. Reign in a bit, please. I sincerely meant no insult. I'll try and explain. My point was (is) when you 'expand' clear and present danger to potentential damage somewhere down the line, then it becomes way too cloudy, and good people who might make unpopular comments (e.g. defending those who refused to sign McCarthy's Loyalty Oath) would be subjected to the standard no more reasonable than it pissed someone off (in the instance of my response to your opinions ...you). As too my larger point, well, boiled down to essentials, to preserve a free people ...I'm right and you're wrong. Peace, jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them. OK hotshot. You and the other flag wavers got us into this. What was your end game plan for getting us out? You did have a plan, didn't you??? If not, it surely is time to come up with one, don't you think? OK sweet cheeks. How about this. We continue to train Iraqi security forces until they can defend their country. Support elections so the Iraqis can self-govern. Start drawing down out troops slowly as Iraqi forces grow. Oh, and it wasn't flag wavers like me that got us into the war. It was a concensus within the government. Democrats and Republicans. Unless you believe the line of bullshit being propogandized by the Dems. But certainly you are intelligent enough to see thru it, right? It was those that used fear and hate ( the new patriots, the flag wavers ...you) to convince the citizens that we had to do this or be destroyed. OK, the public bought it. I agree that now that you have 'US' in this mess, an immediate pullout would be disasterous so I'm kinda with you on what you propose. I see no good end for it all, however and doubt we will be out years from now. BTW, my cheeks are sweet, indeed (my best feature), but I guarantee you'll never see them. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Ahhh, there is all the difference in the world when it comes to governmental sanctions for free expression of iteas, thoughts and opinions. I waded through the injustice of victimless vs crimes against persons and I still don't see your answer (unless you are applying the 'pisses off Rhonda Lea' doctrine). If I understand correctly from gleaning out the bits that addressed my question, you don't reject 'clear and present danger' outright but expand it's definition to the point of being usless as a protection for a free people. Absent the hurdle of imminent danger resulting from speech, you just opened the wide cargo doors for a government to crush any speech it does not like. When I hear the Klan, Aryan Nation or other hate groups spreading their disease under the First Ammendment, it makes my skin crawl, but to loosen that standard invite worse, I think. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Yeah, lets pick a date for the pull out. Maybe we could ask OBL and Zarqawi what date would work best would for them. OK hotshot. You and the other flag wavers got us into this. What was your end game plan for getting us out? You did have a plan, didn't you??? If not, it surely is time to come up with one, don't you think? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Aside from her aggressive style and somewhat bizarre method of presentation (she was, afterall, playing for the camera) , what she expressed didn't stray much from standard fundamentalist belief. Have you ever been to a fundamentalist tent revival??? Crazy? You decide. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

OK, accepting what you say (for the purposes of this discussion only) what standards would you apply to protect those who merely wish to express a view not favored by those in power? You obviously reject 'clear and present danger'. What is your substitution? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Well ignoring that you are telling me how I'm acting and what I'm riding. ... All cultures have sanctions for behaviors outside the norm. Such is life. When it is encoded into laws and gives the govt authority to arrest you for expressing opinions that do not violate the principle of 'clear and present danger', I think it's gone too far. Good luck with the riding lessons. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I don't agree. I think we've gotten so bound up in the idea that free speech means "I can say what I want, when I want, no matter how cruel, evil, offensive or false it happens to be," that we forget the society of the time did set limits. I wonder what the founding fathers would say about our idea of free speech today? rl I'm wondering what shoes you are wearing on that slope you are on? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I was just taken back (just for a moment) to hear an American say it was OK ...as long as it happens somewhere else. Accepting that, why are we making such a big deal with the Nazi's killing six or so undesirables. It did, after all, happen somewhere else. It was their law and their perogative. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You really shouldn't handle hazardous substances while on peyote ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

We should arrest them and give them a special color license plate for terrorist threat denial. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I'm not sure how they criminalized it either, but it's fine with me that they did. Oh my! Pleae tell me that you don't mean that ...that it was an ill considered off the cuff response that you truly don't mean. That's some scary shit right there. What color license plate should we give him? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Good point. Why not require a special plate for those convicted of sex offenses? What other crimes should we include? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Is the cost of caring for sick birds that high? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Only if you define left leaning as being concerned with human dignity and truthfulness in govt actions. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

It's because of the hard work of doctors and scientists that we have "cures" to certain cancers and rare diseases. It's all good to believe in miracles, but don't say that hand work has nothing to do with it. I don't think all those people who is busting their ass to save lives really appreciate someone saying that it was a miracle and not their hard work that cured /saved him or her. Agree with the hard work part, but most of the 'cures' are really just vast improvements in early detection and diagnosis. jen Thought for the day . There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".