Cloudi

I watched one several weeks ago (I didn't know it had a name) on a formation skydive. A very experienced jumper did it to another very experienced jumper when the formation went to sh*t & to draw attention away from the fact that I was unable to get to the formation (thanks for that!). It didn't look dangerous to me. The initiater grabbed the hands of the unsuspecting "victim" and dragged him down. From my viewpoint, which wasn't that far away--thank you very much, I could see the confusion and surprise on the "fruit loopee's" face. I had to laugh! I watched a bit longer before I tracked off & it looked like he figured it out pretty quickly. Knowing the "fruit looper," he would have bailed if the other guy freaked out or remained confused about what was going on. While I wouldn't recommend doing this to an unsuspecting "newbie" because they may get a hand free and start grabbing and kicking, I don't really see a problem with two experienced people doing it, when they know each other well and have jumped together many times before. It seems to me that part of being an experienced jumper is learning to handle the unexpected. Ron, I'm really sorry to hear what happened to your friend and I completely respect your opinion on this. I'm not advocating this as being necessarily a good idea, just that I watched one between two very experienced jumpers who know and trust* each other. *By the way, everyone is trying to kill you up there. It's up to you to be aware of what's happening around you. It's up to each of us to keep ourselves alive. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Ooops! I did make it sound like you and Norman were in cahoots, didn't I? It was fantastic meeting you and your daughter. What a great weekend full of incredible people! I'm still floating from the whole experience. I can't wait to see what each of you have put together. I haven't even had a chance to see what Justin has yet! It would be difficult to capture the high everyone was on throughout the whole thing, but I have no doubt you did an incredible job of it. Blue Ones! Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Doh!!! Thank goodness my packing is a tad better than my approach to gearing up, huh? Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

That was one of the most incredible things I've seen in my life!!! There is no doubt that Jay is a machine (and incredibly nice, too), but there were many, many dedicated people there to assist for hours and hours. The staff at Skydive Greensburg is simply incredible. Everyone (and I mean everyone) generously gave their time and talent to help Jay accomplish his goal. The entire thing from take-off, to climb, to exit, to landing was simply beautiful. He even had cheerleaders! They were pretty desperate for packers from midnight to 8am. They even let me pack! It was an honor to be there and an incredible scene to behold. I met some truly fantastic people that weekend.

Nice! That's what it's all about. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

I'm curious what you consider to be "very slow openings." What you might consider too slow, myself or someone else might consider perfect. How much altitude exactly between the time the opening stands you up and forward flight? What's your pull altitude & decision altitude? What is your main discipline? What were you jumping before that you are comparing it to? How are you packing it? Do you push the nose in? Do you roll the tail tight? Do you pull the slider out over the nose? I'll reserve any comments for this canopy/size/wing loading at your posted jump number and currency for when we know more about your experience. A 126 reserve loaded at 1.48, huh? Sorry about all the questions. Just wanting to get an idea of where you're coming from and what you're used to. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Holy crap, you must have been bored!! That's not a new design...that's what Loudiamond sees when he looks in the mirror! Blue Ones! Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Don't worry, your friends are there already. You just haven't been introduced!

Excellent!!! I'm doing mine on Tuesday.

Thanks. Occasionally, I have my moments... Unfortunately, we don't have an archive to hold old tips/newsletter articles, so it's not on the website anymore. I'll just keep breaking them out as I see the need. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Oh, and instructions for installation come with every set.

Attached is an article I wrote for the PD website last year (be gentle, I was still pretty new). It has a little more information than the link Hydroguy provided, but I'm not sure what you're looking to find out. If you have specific questions about Slinks, maybe I can find out for you. I hope this helps.

Can't wait to meet you, Spot! I'll be there "schmoozing" for PD and providing whatever support he needs. Go Jay!!! It's going to be a trip! Bob @ Skydive Greensburg already (very unceremoniously) gave me the 3-6am slot. I'm going to hide!! If you see someone cowering under a table, that will be me. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

It is my understanding, of the canopies I'm familiar with, that rolling the nose will often cause more problems than it's intended to fix. A standard pro-pack (or whatever method the manufacturer recommends for its canopies) is the best place to start. Special packing "tricks" like rolling the nose, pushing the nose in, positioning the slider over the nose, etc. are to be done IF the canopy is not opening the way you want it to on the standard pack job and all other possible contributors have been ruled out (gear compatibility, line trim, correct sized slider, body position, freefall speed, etc.). If these have all been ruled out and the canopy is spanking me when I don't perform special packing tactics, I'm sending it to the manufacturer for inspection, but that's just me. Rolling the nose is supposed to slow down the opening, right? If you aren't experiencing too-fast/hard openings with the standard, suggested packing method, what's the point? Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

I think JohanW did a pretty good job of explaining it, but here's some more to consider... You are comparing different sizes/wing loadings on the same canopy. Yes, you will notice more aggressiveness from the smaller, more highly loaded one. That's a given. Your question, though, was how a Pilot compares to a Stiletto. I can't answer that with 100% surety because I've never jumped a Pilot. I can guess though: I don't think the Pilot is designed to be an aggressive or hp canopy, so if you compare it to a same-sized, same wing loaded Stiletto (or any other hp canopy), the Stiletto will dive more, turn faster, & be more responsive to most inputs (harness, toggle, risers). If the only differences in performance were the result of wing loading and/or size, why do you think manufacturers would bother designing new canopies? Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Sounds like you may already know the answer, but you're too busy downsizing to experience it. (Think about why the Sabre2 135 felt more aggressive than the Sabre 120 other than just the weights.) Have you jumped a Spectre? Many consider it a "conservative" canopy, but it will turn on a dime with aggressive input. There is more to performance than canopy type, size, and wingloading (although those are huge factors). The way the canopy is trimmed, the jumper's technique, and the jumper's experience/comfort level are also factors that play into their perceptions of how a canopy handles. I was comparing a lightly loaded Spectre to a lightly loaded Stiletto. If you don't understand the differences, maybe an instructor or a much more experienced jumper here can explain it much better than I can. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

Anytime.

Coming from a Spectre* (the super forgiving goddess of canopies ), you might want to get some jumps on a same-sized Sabre2 (or equivalent 9-cell canopy type) before venturing to a Stiletto. This will give you a chance to make sure you're ready for a more responsive canopy before going fully elliptical (9-cells are typically more responsive than 7-cells). If a canopy is responsive when you fly it, it's also responsive when you open (harness input) & when you land. A lightly loaded semi-elliptical 7-cell Spectre is very forgiving if you shift in the harness during deployment, a semi-elliptical 9-cell is less, a fully elliptical 9-cell is NOT. Also, the amount of input for turns and flare are completely different. Flare the Stiletto deep like you would your Spectre and you'll probably find yourself on your back because you stalled the canopy. I suggest you discuss this with the trusted, experienced instructors/canopy coaches at your DZ (which I'm sure you plan to anyway). If they feel comfortable with you trying one, PD has a demo program (ahem...) where you can try the canopy for a nominal fee. Not everyone is in a hurry to downsize, but are looking for more performance. This would be an excellent reason for someone with the appropriate experience/skill level to go to HP. *This is assuming you have the majority of your jumps on this canopy type. Edit for spelling. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

No offense, but how do you know that for a fact? Did you see the pack job? Did you see the body position? Did you see the bag come out? I guess the fact that she ended up "swimming" to get stable has no bearing on the opening results? A very experienced jumper who was in the group and who watched her deployment wasn't surprised she had line twists. Could it have been the double stows? Maybe. Could it have been body position? Maybe. Could it have been packing? Maybe. Could it be all the above or a combination of two? Maybe. It's important for all of us to hear different perspectives to more fully understand the pros and cons of doing things one way or the other, but making a judgment like yours because it may fit into your theory without knowing the facts can be dangerous. You're entitled to your opinion and you are more experienced than I am, but we may have to agree to disagree on this debate.

You aren't progressing by downsizing too quickly, you are actually regressing. You are losing confidence, hurting yourself, and the stress of the situation is preventing you from learning to fly your canopy. If you are having a hard time getting a good flare from the main you're jumping and the descent feels fast, just wait until you find yourself under that reserve. Maybe you should look for more appropriate gear that will suit your needs now, not where you or someone else thinks you'll be in another 100-200 jumps. You should have no problem finding buyers for the gear you have (popular models & sizes) for the same you paid for it. Of course, if you keep using it and biffing it in, it won't be worth much... Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

It was great seeing you today! Did you get some of Rusty's meat? Nice f**king job on that jump today! I posted here about what a great job you did! I can't believe we both packed our canopies that way and LIVED! Ha, ha! Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

God forbid skydivers "might" have to pay a little more for something that helps ensure they get a consistant, quality product... The purpose of an ISO certification is to produce a product over and over in the same way, every time. It prohibits manufacturers from cutting corners and/or allowing variences in their procedures. This does not mean an end to inginuity. If something great is developed that can benefit the process/product/production, it will be incorporated into the ISO (meaning, that will become the new standard the company must adhere to). It only means that the procedures remain consistant. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

To the OP: I'm glad you found the method* that works best for you. THAT's what matters!

I'm in Marketing. Rags doesn't talk about skydiving with us, he just wants t-shirts. And...numbers? We don't need no stinking numbers! In all seriousness, though, I get conflicting advice, even from work. Some think small rubber bands are the shi-at and others think double stowing with large rubber bands is the way to go. Me, I just take all advice, use common sense, and make my own decision. I find large rubber bands much easier to work with (I have big, banana fingers) and I can steal them from Tour whenever I need more. Just 'cause we work at PD doesn't mean they "tell" us anything. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

You're drunk? All right...who slipped this girl a thimble-full of Chardonnay? Or did someone open a bottle of Nyquil or mouthwash too close to you? Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.