dzjnky

Sweet shots, Matt! Those flocks sure look like they were a blast to build. Now I am really freakin pissed that I couldn't make it... See you at 4.0! dzjnky (one of the MIA Flock U boyz)

Really nice job on the vid, Tristan!!! Sweet flying, too...

Sorry about the long post, but it is raining today, and I am bored... Skydiving safety is a frequently discussed issue, particularly among newer jumpers. I think there IS "Safer Skydiving", but whether or not that constitutes "Safe Skydiving" is all about an individual's tolerance for risk. You are exposed to risk every day. You may slip and fall and kill yourself in the bathroom. You may be in an auto accident today. You might even get struck by lightning! All of these are very real risks in your daily life. However, most people don't worry about these things, as they are below their threshold of perceived personal risk that would make those things "dangerous". And the part about perceived risk is important - most people expose themselves to risks that they are totally unaware of, or at least unaware of the magnitude of the risk. You cannot eliminate risk in your life. You CAN, however, reduce risk. This also applies to skydiving - you cannot eliminate the risk, but you can reduce it. All of the things that you mentioned are ways to reduce the risk. Other ways are: only introduce one new issue at a time (so if you are going to a new drop zone, try to do so with your own gear, or if you are going to jump out of a new type of aircraft, try to do it at a familiar drop zone on familiar gear, etc.) Don't start jumping on bigways until you have developed the right basic skills, both for freefall AND for canopy control. Don't downsize until you have mastered your current canopy. There are lots of ways to reduce risk. In my opinion, it comes down to learn as much as you can about this sport, use common sense and good judgment at all times, and ask questions of people that you trust in the sport to learn where the risks really are, and what you can do to avoid them. Is there such a thing as a "Safe Skydive"?? For me, yes, absolutely! But, my definition of "Safe" is probably different than yours. I also work hard at controlling the risks. And I am a very firm believer that (for me) the benefits of this sport far outweigh the risks that I expose myself to. I do find that as I progress in this sport, I am doing more complex things on my skydives. As my skill level goes up, my ability to do these complex tasks safely improves. I do think that there is a normal tendency to "up the ante" as one matures in the sport - this is what tends to keep things interesting. The safest of skydives is probably a solo belly jump, and in my opinion, those do get boring after a while, although while I was on student status, those jumps were anything but boring! At my skill level now, however, I tend not to do solo belly jumps. There are "more interesting" things that I want to do, and have the skill to do relatively safely. In a sense, I am increasing my risk, but I prefer to look at it as I am maintaining a somewhat constant risk exposure, balancing my increasing skill (and the corresponding reduction of risk) with the difficulty of the skydives I participate in (with a corresponding increase in risk - more complex dives = somewhat increased risk). An example of this is that I recently took up wingsuiting. Increased risk?? Absolutely. Do I still consider my skydives safe?? Absolutely. If I do not think I could do a jump safely, I do not go on the jump. Happens frequently when the winds pick up, and I choose to sit on the ground rather than get on the load. Also, I am still jumping the same canopy, however, 500 jumps after I got it. I have not downsized, and am very happy under this canopy. Basically, I am picking and choosing carefully the areas where I am willing to accept more risk as my skills increase. Do I see other skydivers who take risks that I personally choose not to take?? Happens every day I am at the Drop Zone. Do skydivers expose themselves to risk? Yup - all the time... just read the incidents forum for the results. Do I take steps to minimize my personal risk? Yup, on every single jump that I make. So, is there such a thing as "Safe Skydiving"? That is a very personal evaluation, and only you can answer that question for yourself. But, based on your profile, it appears that on at least 20 occasions, you have decided that skydiving was "safe enough" to make the jump Learn your stuff, stay alert, and practice those emergency procedures - all these things are important to reducing your risk while you participate in this most amazing sport! I wish you many more successful, and safe skydives! Blue Skies!

I suspect you are being overly optimistic thinking that an ambulance might show up, and spend an entire day dedicated to a single event for free. But, spread the cost across all the competitors, and some sponsors, it becomes tolerable. We preach "safety first" all the time for sport jumping... So why is it different during competitions??? It can be difficult to put your wallet where your mouth is, but I think it is wise to just plan the expense of having an ambulance on standby into the event budget.

Hey all - another fledgling checking in - Purple Mike helped me figure out how to get a Classic to hum... what a blast! Managed some sweet docks on dive 2 (you guys made it easy for me!) and dive #3 was even more amazing. Gonna be hard to jump without wings from now on, I think!!! Thanks for an incredible intro to my newest addiction! See you this weekend

Well, you asked this question in the Wind Tunnel forum, but then you talk about "I generally land gently". Well, I would certainly hope so, if you are talking about tunnel flying... You asked about "basic arch position" - I would have to say that "basic arch position" is hips forward, so that your entire body forms a continuous arch, without a "bump" in the arch where your butt sticks up. For many fliers, the "butt up" shape is better described as knees low, and it often is as a result of flying with your legs too wide. In rereading your post, however, I'm not sure I am envisioning #2 correctly - I have a hard time picturing a "full arch" with the "pelvis tucked" Once you have a "basic arch", then you can control your fall rate by increasing how hard you arch - the more the curve of your body, the faster you will fall. If you decrease the curve, you will slow down. If you start sticking your butt up, you will slow down even more, and you will be less stable, because you just moved your center of gravity up relative to where the air is supporting you. It is really hard to diagnose the discomfort you are feeling, however, with the minimal information provided so far. The biggest thing that you can probably do, however, is RELAX! If you are straining back muscles, then you are most likely way too tense. Relaxing will both reduce your physical stress & strain, as well as just making the whole experience a whole lot more fun! BTW, these answers are generally applicable to both tunnel flying and skydiving.

I also think that 1 minute rotations are too short. I like 2 minute rotations as it gives me enough time to learn new skills, but not get so tired that I'm struggling to keep flying that new position or skill. I think that the prmiary value of tunnel flying for AFF students is to learn the component skills of skydiving - stable flight, fall rate control, then turns & forward/backward motion. In the sky, you get to put it all together while maintaining altitude awareness. This is pure speculation, but I would guess that you might have benefited from spending more time dirt-diving, and walking through your dive flow in real time on the ground. My drop zone has a student altimeter hooked up like a watch, so you can start it, step through your dive plan, lock on at 6, and pitch at 5.5 (or whatever your altitudes are) just like in a real dive. That helped me get a sense of the timing of the dive, and provided me an appropriate reminder that the dive keeps moving, no mater what happens. Besides, dirt diving is free - tunnel time and AFF jumps are not!

No way!!! Is that really true? Are you sure you got the numbers right? That is a truly sweet deal. I am constantly amazed at how Rob, Laurie and their crew love to share the joy of tunnel flight, at what gracious hosts they are, and how they go out of their way to make visits to the tunnel as fantastic an experience as possible. Just walking into their facility you can tell it is a labor of love! Guess I'll have to dig deep into the pockets & sort out the lint from the good stuff, and get me some tunnel time!!!

A little birdie told me that things are looking good for getting the official signoff from the town early this week... the punch list seems to be down to the cosmetic stuff at this point. Stay tuned, we are just a few days away!!!

SkyVenture New Hampshire in Nashua, NH will be opening in about two weeks - approx Aug. 15. That is probably the closest to you (Mapquest says just over 9 hrs drive time). This is a 12-foot diameter recirculating tunnel - 2nd one of this design in the USA, 3rd in the world.

Yup, SkyVenture New Hampshire is real, it is being built in Nashua, NH, and it should be open to the public in early August. As with any construction project, unexpected things can happen, and those unexpected things rarely speed up the process. But, I think the early August date is looking pretty good... So, I would check out their website, and contact them with any questions/concerns that you have (or PM me, and I'll offer you my opinion). Also, the owners have also posted a bunch to this thread. As far as being concerned about being one of the first to fly in a new tunnel - not to worry - the systems will be well checked out prior to allowing the general public to fly. They have to train their staff somewhere Why would you go to Eloy or Florida when one of the best tunnels around is in your back yard?? Unless you just can't wait another 3 weeks or so to fly Hope to see you in Nashua soon.

SV New Hampshire is probably a good contender... Since they are the newest SV to "flip the switch" they are the ones that (for the moment) have the latest & greatest technology that SV has to offer. As others have mentioned, top speed is limited for safety reasons - tunnel top speeds have gotten faster than most humans can fly, so "top speed" is not as important as it used to be...

Oh yah!!! Doin' the "happy dance"... It is really nice to see the results of all those long days and late nights you guys have been putting in! I'll bet you are looking forward to sitting back and watching the bodies fly! Oh, awright - you can fly too...

nigel, I'm not an expert, but here's my 2 cents worth... Decreased air density at high altitude would result in reduced drag, as evidenced by greater terminal velocities at higher altitudes, so yes, you would be able to open at somewhat higher speed without damage to your equipment. Unfortunately, that aspect is not significant when compared to other things. [geek alert on] Kinetic energy is related to the square of the speed, so doubling your freefall speed quadruples the kinetic energy that must be dissipated by the opening parachute system. More energy to be dissipated = increased chance of exceeding design limits and damaging the system. Another way to look at it is that when your parachute opens at any given altitude, your speed will decrease by the same percentage. In absolute numbers, however, you are slowing down many more miles per hour, so the G forces involved to slow you down that much will be much greater. An example might help: at "normal altitude" belly-to-earth terminal velocity might be 120 MPH, suppose that under canopy you fall at 10% of your freefall rate. That would mean that vertical velocity under canopy might be 12 MPH, so deployment results in a deceleration of 108 MPH. If you were at high altitude, where your belly-to-earth terminal velocity was 180 MPH, then I would speculate that your vertical velocity under canopy would be 18 MPH. While that is still a 90% reduction in speed, it is also a reduction of 162 MPH. Assuming that the deployment duration is the same, then you will undergo about 50% higher G-forces in the high-altitude deployment. [geek off] I'm sure there are holes in this argument, but I think it is close enough to illustrate the basic physics of the situation.

Thanks for the updates, Laurie. One of the things that I love seeing is how the parking lot seems to be getting bigger and bigger. It doesn't seem that long ago that you could hardly move around the lot because of the turning banks, fans, transition ducts, structural steel, etc. all over the place. Now, all that stuff is finding its place in the building, and you can actually park quite a few cars in the lot Really looking forward to hearing those fans sucking air

I wandered by the tunnel today (ok, and yesterday

I can think of several major differences between the various tunnels, and each of them will have some impact on the "feel" and the response of the airflow to people flying around in it... 1) Walls or not. The lack of walls at AAC or Ft. Bragg will not only influence the shape of the airflow, but it can also influence how the air responds to being deflected by a body in the airflow - air flowing around a body won't get pushed back towards the body when there is no wall. 2) Blow vs. suck vs. recirculating. I think the biggest impact would be on turbulence in the flight chamber, but there is also the issue of being able to partially stall the fan(s) in a sucker. That effect can definitely be felt during flight. 3) single fan vs. multiple fan. Not really sure what the influence would be here - I guess it would be easier to stall a smaller fan, but then you are only stalling one of multiple fans. I don't understand the dynamics of stalls with the larger single fan. 4) Probably the most important influence, one that I didn't see discussed earlier in the thread: Diameter of the tunnel. The cross-section of a 12 ft. tunnel is about 113 sq. ft. The cross section of a 16 ft tunnel is about 201 sq. ft. or about 175% of the area of the smaller tunnel. I'm going to make some gross assumptions now, to illustrate my point - the absolute numbers are probably way off, but I hope this will help folks to understand what I'm thinking... Let's guess that a skydiver on their belly presents a cross-sectional area of about 3 sq. feet (roughly 1 ft wide, and roughly 3 ft from shoulders to knees? I know, wider in the middle, especially for me! but for a rough estimate, close enough...) That means that a 4-way team will have an area of about 12 sq. ft, which in the 12 ft tunnel represents about a 10% blockage of the tunnel, but only about a 6% blockage of the 16 ft tunnel. If the undisturbed airspeed in both tunnels was 120 MPH, then to get all that air past the tunnel fliers, the air has to pass the fliers in the 12 ft. tunnel at about 132 MPH, but only 127 MPH in the 16 ft tunnel. Result?? The light guy on the team needs more lead to stay with his teammates. I'm sure the real situation is much more complicated than this, but I suspect this is where a bunch of the difference in "feel" is coming from. This also leads me to guess that a single belly-flier probably won't notice as much difference in the various size tunnels as would 4-way teams. And while we are speculating... Another possible difference between the various tunnels (and no way am I an expert here...) could be the control systems - I don't know how complex the control systems are, but if one tunnel uses an "open loop" control system - basically set the power, and you get whatever airspeed you get, and another tunnel uses a "closed loop" control system that dynamically changes the power setting to maintain a relatively constant air speed, I think that would introduce a significant difference in the way the tunnels would "feel". Again, I have no knowledge of the tunnel control systems, so this is pure speculation on my part. Note that I did not discuss the "Venturi effect" that others have mentioned. I tend to agree with those who think that is a "red herring", and if there is such an effect, it is probably so small as to be unnoticable. I think that the presence of walls that restrict the airflow (or rather the deflection of the airflow), and the relative size of the tunnel to the fliers present are much more important than just the fact that the flight chamber might be narrower than other parts of the airflow system. Sorry for the ramble - this got a bit long - I hope this gives someone "food for thought"

If you're a dude, get a girl to rub your, uhhh, back Years, hopefully

Promises... promises.... Where the pictures at???? Must..... have..... pictures.... Oh, OK, I'll come by the site tomorrow to see for myself!!!

Eule, I don't mean to dismiss your idea outright, but here are a few other issues that came to mind: 1) I don't think the tunnel can change speeds fast enough to accommodate the scenarios that you describe. 2) Time is not cheap in a tunnel - I've seen threads where people were unhappy about loosing 5-10 seconds per session due to the time involved in one person exiting the tunnel, and the next person entering. Getting someone out of the harness, and the next person in is going to take a significant chunk of time. That translates to more $$ per simulated cutaway. It will be WAY more expensive than a hanging harness, and I question whether it would really be more realistic. 3) Mounting the supports would be quite a challenge, especially in a SkyVenture style tunnel, where the walls are basically smooth, and the tunnel operator wants it to stay that way to keep things as energy efficient as possible (rough things in the air flow = drag = more energy required to run the tunnel = more $$ for the utility company, less for the tunnel owner. And we all want the tunnel owners to be happy, so the tunnels all stay open!) I think there are better options that are way less complicated. If you want a realistic experience, get a rig set up with 2 reserves, and go do an intentional cutaway!

I agree with kelpdiver. My recommendation is to minimize your moving around, and go "play" after you have gotten your license. You have enough things to learn already without adding extra uncertainties due to differences between DZs. I got taught that you should only change one thing at a time, especially early in your career. So if you go to a new drop zone, try to find one with the same kind of aircraft that you are already familiar with. If you are jumping new gear, try to do it at a familiar DZ in a familiar airplane. Taken to the extreme, that means new drop zone = repeat the last jump. That might be a bit conservative, but you get the drift. In addition, the more you jump with the same AFFI (assuming you work well together), the quicker your learning curve will be. If you insist on moving around, I would at least wait until you are done with the formal AFF stuff, and are working on your coach jumps. Finally, if you are moving around, be sure to keep your paperwork current, and get everything signed off when you do it!

Mark, My French really stinks, and the wind tunnel doesn't rate an English-language version of the page, but from what I could decipher on the first site you posted, this appears to be a 10 foot diameter tunnel, with pretty low speeds - my guess is that the 200 kph (125 mph) speed they mentioned was a top speed... like I said, my French isn't so hot... Also, from the picture of it, it does not appear to be a recirculator - its gonna be COLD in the winter, if they will even try to run it... So I think heading to New Hampshire will still be your best bet, though it is a tease to have a tunnel so close. I'll probably be at SVNH a bunch, so PM me when you are coming down, and I'll make a point to say hi while you are there. It will be interesting to see if this one is successful or not. Do you know the area? Is it a big tourist area? A 10 footer probably won't get a lot of skydiver traffic, which means that it may be more dependent upon tourists to keep it going... Just my uneducated guesses, based on my very poor translation of a French language web page I would be interested if others have more info on this one...

Hey Laurie.... you slacker!! Got any new pics?? That last one is a week old already I know something must be going on at the site...

Keep up the good work! I can't wait to enjoy your tube of pleasure. Geez, that sounds dirty

Upside, If you are at all like me, you've already overcome this level of fear at least once... I know that my first jump was equal parts of incredible exhilaration and sheer terror... Overcoming that fear is one of the things that I am most proud of in making the choice to jump that first time, and to keep jumping... Don't know if this is 100% true, but it makes a lot of sense to me, and I use this as a way to help "flip" my fear into a more useful emotion: The body's physical response to fear and excitement is basically the same - adrenaline, increased pulse, faster breathing, hyper-awareness, etc. So what is the difference?? It is primarily in your head - do you interpret the situation in a positive or negative light? Do you anticipate a good or a bad outcome? By focusing on the positives, I can often flip my energy into excitement, rather than fear. Having said that, a little bit of fear can be useful. Dave (dharma1976) said this about your fear: "keep it own it love it and use it ". That energy helps keep us sharp, and chases away complacency. Use it as a tool to help keep you safe. When fear rises to a level where it starts inhibiting your actions, it has become an issue you need to deal with (but you already know that). All the suggestions earlier in this thread are great ways to work through it. I especially like the idea of heading to the DZ with no intention of jumping, just go hang out with your friends. Make up some story about having a cold that is affecting your sinuses if you want, so there is no peer pressure to jump. If the mood strikes, go jump. If not, just chill & have a good time! You can jump whenever you want to