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Which is one reason why we have physical education. Education is the primary purpose. Maybe when 50 kids die of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease you will change your tune. Unfortunately, that is sometimes what it takes. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Independent doesn't necessarily mean better. And you are assuming that parents care what happens once kids leave for school. Sad fact is, many could care less. Another route to go would be increased fines and criminal liability to producers who blantantly violate the rules. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Unfortunately Bill, much of this beef went to school lunch programs. It was fed to children, some of whom had 2 choices - eat what the school provided and trust that the government was doing its job, or eat nothing and go hungry. They just said this meat went out to 200 schools here in Pennsylvania. Were it not for a random investigation by the humane society, this meat would still be served to kids, maybe for years. We need more/better oversight, as I initially stated. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

But aren't they more likely to suck your dick to get out of that ticket? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

So, in other words, banks came up with programs to try to help out the poor and unsavvy. Ironically, we've been hearing from the left for decades about how financing options for the poor need to be made available. So they do it, and now they should be made to pay for these. The other option is to keep them all in apartments and projects. Yep. they all took risks on the market continuing to appreciate. Yep. And the banks kept offering, and the banks kept buying the servicing. And the people kept on applying. And houses kept getting sold. And sellers were making a lot of money, and putting that money into inflated homes. So, the Truth in Lending Disclosures weren't made? I have never seen a loan package (and in my line, I've probably seen hundreds by complaining people) that DIDN'T spell it right out. Yet another example of government regulations and laws that were complied with - people just didn't care enough to trust them. I'll put it this way - ou can educate people all you want, and they make choices. "SMoking bad." People still smoke. "Wear a condom." People still screw without them. They know the risks. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Yep. So the insurer and the surety (don't confuse the two) did not account for all of these things. Actually, you cannot because stock are not bonded! Stocks are not insured. Surety operates under the assumption that the risk is secured - much like a mortgage. If a surety must pay, the surety has a collateralized asset that can be collected upon. The differences between "surety" and "insurance" are subtle, but huge! Both are "insurance" of a sort. Insurance shifts the risk of loss to the insurer. Surety shifts the risk of loss to the principal - and can get indemnity from the principal to protect the third party. This means that the principal is interested in the claim resolution, and moral hazard is limited. You can't secure stocks - their value fluctuates too much. That's why there is a separate "bond" market. I think you are doing much to confuse the surety industry with the insurance industry. BUT - allow me to point out just a little something that most people are unaware of. See, this regulation that you were talkign about USED to be far greater. When the stock market crashed in 1929, the Glass Steagall Act authorized government and commercial paper in the federal reserve. The second Glass Steagall Act (the Banking Act of 1933) created the FDIC and required that investment banks and commercial banks be separate. Then came the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999. It repealed Glass-Steagall. It unified the government oversight. Instead of having separate tiers to report for insurance, investment and commerical banking, they unified to report under the same bureaucracy. The economic reason was that all three (insurers, banks and investment) wanted to unify to create more stability. It dramatically changed the banking front. I highlighted 1999 because many in the know (myself included) believe that this law has as much to do as anything with the real estate bubble and the bursting of it. I also note that George W. Bush had NOTHING to do with it. Take a look here for a summary: http://banking.senate.gov/conf/grmleach.htm The picture is much, much bigger than what you are ascribing. There WAS a great deal of federal oversight and regulations. Since I don't have time right now to respond to all this strp by stp... I'll just say... BULLSHIT. Maybe I'll have time later for a more thoughtful response. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You understand it wrong, then. The investigation was done by the humane society, not food inspectors. It was the first they did and uncovered all these issues. They were shocked at how bad things were at the very first investigative look. So a non-government organization discovered the inadequacies of the government...and you think government is the solution. See earlier post about unfilled inspector jobs at USDA. You're only reinforcing my point. If your point is that the Bush admin doesn't want these positions filled so their Agribusiness buddies can run amok, then yes, I am. Ah, yes... the contemporary version of "Socialism hasn't worked yet because the *right people* haven't been in charge"... Don't put words in my mouth. And this has NOTHING to do with socialism. We are talking about oversight of the US food supply and regulation of certain unregulated financial marikets. Sometime I don't know where you guys come up with this shit. If your point is that the Bush admin doesn't want these positions filled so their Agribusiness buddies can run amok, then yes, I am We wonder the same thing about y'all, a LOT more often...y'all are able to discern exactly how/what all these 'discoveries' mean...but can't seem to provide any proof or get an impeachment... More gov't running more and more things *is* the contemporary equivalent of my remark, above. Who is this y'all that you refer to? And socialism has NOTHING to do with government oversight and regulation. ZERO. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You understand it wrong, then. The investigation was done by the humane society, not food inspectors. It was the first they did and uncovered all these issues. They were shocked at how bad things were at the very first investigative look. So a non-government organization discovered the inadequacies of the government...and you think government is the solution. See earlier post about unfilled inspector jobs at USDA. You're only reinforcing my point. If your point is that the Bush admin doesn't want these positions filled so their Agribusiness buddies can run amok, then yes, I am. Ah, yes... the contemporary version of "Socialism hasn't worked yet because the *right people* haven't been in charge"... Don't put words in my mouth. And this has NOTHING to do with socialism. We are talking about oversight of the US food supply and regulation of certain unregulated financial marikets. Sometime I don't know where you guys come up with this shit. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You understand it wrong, then. The investigation was done by the humane society, not food inspectors. It was the first they did and uncovered all these issues. They were shocked at how bad things were at the very first investigative look. So a non-government organization discovered the inadequacies of the government...and you think government is the solution. See earlier post about unfilled inspector jobs at USDA. You're only reinforcing my point. If your point is that the Bush admin doesn't want these positions filled so their Agribusiness buddies can run amok, then yes, I am. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You understand it wrong, then. The investigation was done by the humane society, not food inspectors. It was the first they did and uncovered all these issues. They were shocked at how bad things were at the very first investigative look. So a non-government organization discovered the inadequacies of the government...and you think government is the solution. See earlier post about unfilled inspector jobs at USDA. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You understand it wrong, then. The investigation was done by the humane society, not food inspectors. It was the first they did and uncovered all these issues. They were shocked at how bad things were at the very first investigative look. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Uh, yes. In a nutshell, the mortgage industry is largely unregulated. That is not true. The Banking industry is heavily regulated. I said mortgage, not banking. Go read my whole post. I explained it as thoroughly as I care to. Mortgage companuies are acting like banks, but not regulated like banks. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Uh, yes. In a nutshell, the mortgage industry is largely unregulated. So mortgage brokers were able to sell mortgages to low-income financially-unsavvy people which could be serviced with their current income, but could not as soon as the low teaser rate reset. You might say, stupid people, their fault, however, mortgage brokers told these financially unsavvy people not to worry, they could always refinance. And these mortgage products were entirely new; never before had mortgage brokers sold mortgages that could not be serviced (paid by the holder) after a set period of time. In prior years, mortgage brokers would not give someone a mortgage if they were not able to pay it due to near-term rate adjustments. But with interest rates low and these low rates driving housing prices higher, the last few years were a total mortgage boom. And mortgage brokers weren't selling mortgages to hold, they repackage mortgages and sell them, profiting twice (initial mortgage fees and sale of mortgage). They pool lots of mortgages, then sell them off. And what wasn't disclosed to the buyers were the high risks of these debt instruments. But that's okay to the buyers, as they all bought debt insurance. If you're insured, no problem, right? However, the debt insurance market is unregulated, but that's okay because debt insurance is between sophisticated investors, right? A big financial services firm, pension fund, hedge fund, mutual fund, etc. is a smart investor. The companies that offer debt insurance are smart too. Or so you'd think. So mortgage brokers sold ticking timebomb mortgages to low-income people telling them not to worry, then packaged the mortgages and sold them to investors. These investors didn't really care about the risk as they sold the risk to bond insurance companies by buying insurance. But guess what happens when a bond insurance company has insurance obligations of $60 billion in bonds yet only $500 million in cash to cover those obligations. The bond insurance companies go belly up, because the debt insurance market is unregulated, companies have gotten into the practice of selling insurance on more bonds than actually exist, giving speculators the ability to bet that bonds will go worthless. So you could pay a small premium, for example, on a corporate, muni, or other type of bond in a bet that the entity will not be able to pay it back. You would then collect the full price of the bond should that happen. This type of speculation does not exist in the stock market, for example, because it is regulated. In the stock market, you can sell a stock short or buy an options contract, however in both those cases you have offsetting transactions. You can't short a billion shares of a company if there are only a million shares outstanding. Anyway, so now the insurance companies have gone belly up and big finance players like Citibank etc. are writing off billions of dollars of these CDOs as they are worthless. Does that limit the damage? Heck no, because all those bond insurance companies were doing what? Insuring perfectly respectable debt instruments like muni bonds, student loan bonds, etc. But now these investments don't have the protection of insurance, so what happens? The low rates that towns, cities, companies, and other entities used to get when they borrowed money have now shot up through the roof. So where a municipality could sell bonds with a 4 % interest rate, they now have to sell them with a 15% rate to off-set the risk since no one can insure them (that's what Warren Buffett is trying to do, skim the cream of the bond insurance business off the top by getting all the insurance business for these quality bonds). So now we're in a massive credit crunch, which is partly slowing our economy and driving world markets lower. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

And I admire that. Standing up for your argument, no matter how invalid. Someone call the president - his methods are rubbing off! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You agree with Lefty; every economist on the planet agrees with me. Then there's the old - "When it affects you, it's a return to sanity. When it affects me, it's a crisis." -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Just in case your response wasn't a joke.... It was, right? Seriously, I mean, spinning the mortgage crisis as a POSITIVE??? That's FUCKING HILARIOUS!!!! On the food issue, I said more/BETTER. Bush put the fox in charge of the hen house in many government agencies. That needs to be fixed. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

First, the food industry. How many million of pounds of tainted beef do we have to feed to our kids at lunch before we take this seriously? In ,y entire (short) life I have never heard as many food system horror stories than with the Bush admin in charge. Second, we need more oversight in the financial markets. The ENTIRE mortgage mess that we are dealing with now is due ENTIRELY to the fact that the market is unregulated. This is what happens where there is no government to control and restrain human impulse and greed. Also, speculation needs to be removed from food and energy markets. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Try Verizon fiber optic if it is in your area. Screw Comcast. I hate them for so many reasons - this is jus tanother good reason. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

We're not going in to fight the Pakistani military. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

So? If they fire them at the US they would splash down in the Atlantic. Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Lets say that they asked us to act and we failed. If they then took action on a very limited scale to go after those that they thought were a threat to their country we would have a choice to make - Does this operation warrant a militarry or political response? We would likely choose political and Mexico would live with it. When the Taliban protected/harboured Bin Laden we did not tolerate it. So why should we tolerate Pakistan doing the same thing? I would support taking all of the troops from Iraq and sending them on an incursion into Pakistan to get Bin Laden. That is what we should have done from the beginning. I'm not really against war - but against fighting the wrong war. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Can't you forward the service connection to a different port? Try it. Look up "port forwarding". -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Well, I work on a military base, have military experience and have had an extensive background investigation and I can't have a gun in my car when I go to work. (I'm not worried about danger here, but some areas I travel on the way home are not good). Who do I sue? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Evidently the dude made some threatening remarks to the students. He must have done something to give them cause to search his vehicle. So MAYBE he is a nut. Otherwise he would sue for unlawful search and siezure. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

That's why they'd want to do it as LOW as possible, so that small amounts of atmospheric drag slows them down and they all re-enter. Do it up in the "normal" 150-600ish mile range and it's a pretty bad issue. Do it just an orbit or two before it would naturally re-enter and you save yourself a HUGE hassle. Also, we probably just gave away a big secret as far as the capabilities of the Navy SM-3. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Would they have to maintain keplarian elements on each fragment? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.