737driver
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Everything posted by 737driver
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My idea behind something along the lines of 135... Will require the FAA to have a surveillance program over the dropzone and make sure.. or at least go someway to make sure that rules and regulations are adhered to. Your comment about the inop stickers brought a smile to my face.... I think at most DZ's if you saw them at all they would be used to tape something up around a door..... NOT to placard something as required by a FAR
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Well... i see your a moderator.. If you can check my inbox on here.. you will see how many messages I have had thanking my for bring all of this to light... From people who feel they cant speak out against the community. Not in an offensive way, but if you speak to anyone in the aviation business and try to make the argument skyding aircraft are safer than commercial aviation (Airlines, 135, air medical, flight training) they will roll over laughing. Skydiving has for a long time been the black sheep of the aviation community... and it is time that people took a stand and said enough is enough it is time to get our house in order. This needs to start drop zone by drop zone. The culture of complacency and acceptance of crashes as part of the sport needs to be eradicated.
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There is no system for oversight of jump operations at all. Every other commercial air transportation has things like POI's and inspection procedures. My agenda is sinister? For wanting to start debate, with a view to making the sport safer for all of those who take part in it? Not to mention other users of the nations airspace, and those living in the airport traffic pattern at airports with a dropzone. If that is sinister... then well it's just laughable.
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Your very bitter... The US has almost the best safety record in the world... how do you think they got that? From learning from previous mistakes... taking on board accident reports and recommendations. Passing down knoledge over the years in the flight department. No it's not perfect but it sure as hell is better than the attitude in the DZ world.
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The trouble is... Lot's of jumpers and more importantly tandem students don't understand the dangers and risks. They don't know what regulations are in place, so of course they can't know if a drop zone is operating in accordance with the law. The USPA have no teeth... so cant really do anything. Because of the lack of regulation and oversight when you climb aboard a jump airplane you have no way of knowing if it is properly maintained. You have no way of knowing what training the pilot has taken with regard to jump operations, at the moment such training is not even required by law.
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Do you advocate some drop zones continuing their operations in the current unregulated fashion?
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The main point here is that FAR 135 or similar rules created for skydiving would provide regulatory oversight. Including a POI. So these things SHOULD be picked up before they result in loss of life.
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The trouble is... discretion is all well and good. The problem is in skydiving it has been abused. Because discretion is allowed to be used with regard to TBO in 91 operations... that translates to some DZO's as don't bother doing it save money (Which is a false economy)
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Does sound the best idea... As well the USPA have 0 power over aircraft operations.
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I think the greatest thing they will bring is oversight. So that regulations whatever part they are under are enforced and complied to. Running a skydiving aircraft way beyond TBO is just silly. It has a hard life, if it is a single engine... chances are your going to find out how far beyond TBO you can go when you apply full power... So your going to be close to the ground... with no motor. So oversight, and regulations stating compliance with manufacturers recommendations. Plus minimum standards and a training program requirement for jumpilots. Of course there would need to be much work in drawing up the exact wording of such legislation.
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I guess your one of the good guys out there... It is really nice to hear that attitude from a DZO with regard to MX... Let me buy you a beer. The problem arises that many DZO's are not thinking like that... thus we need the FAA to do something about it.. Because you hit the nail on the head.. your feel your going to die in the skydive aircraft not the skydive... That is just an insane situation that we find ourselves in... and something needs to be done about it.. Admitting we have a problem, talking about it and putting ideas forward is a great start. I would still like someone to tell me what if anything the USPA have done to try and keep aircraft blue side up.
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Good points you make there. Something needs to happen bring about change. We both agree enforcement needs to happen.. and the USPA are not the ones to do it. It needs to come from the FAA, if some drop zones have to close then... too bad. If only the bigger ones keep going, and are forced to spend money on training and looking after their aircraft then that is fine by me. Anyone that disagrees, put yourself in the shoes of the family that has lost someone because not enough money was spent on keeping the aircraft blue side up.
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But has the USPA done anything in relation to aircraft accidents in skydiving... I could well be wrong i just cant think of anything!?
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I beg to differ. In the last few years I can think of only one crash in America that was the result of MX... The Beech 1900. The simple fact is jump prices need to at least double for there to be enough money to look after the airplanes and ensure proper pilot training. To train a turbine jump pilot correctly I would say costs around 12-15k The only way to really train them is in a simulator. You just can't replicate the kind of training needed in the airplane. I would also question at 250 hours if your ready to have people climbing all over the outside of your airplane. Your very green at that stage... and you have people changing the CG of the aircraft... and effectively extending a huge speed brake on one side of the aircraft. I would be curious if someone could inform me what steps if any the USPA has taken to address the problem of aircraft accidents in the sport of skydiving.
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I agree. But there is a HUGE MX issue and lack of oversight of skydiving operations.... Fine if you want to keep the actual skydive under the remit of the USPA... But as for the operation of the aircraft it is high time the FAA started getting touch before anymore innocent lives are lost.
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Your having a laugh? Aviation in the United States is regulated by the FAA... not the USPA. We are talking about serious issues with the MX of jump planes. It is about time the FAA started to prosecute.. and maybe bring about a change for the greater good.
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Not really a bad thing... just a round about way of doing things! It regulates business jets and keeps FSI / CAE Simuflite in business!
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I think the more realistic thing to happen is that more and more law suits will be filled and successful. And hopefully the aviation insurance companies will start forcing change... or refuse to insure skydiving aircraft.
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That is a very good point.... the drop zone operators certificate... Really is... I just wonder how you go about pushing the issue to get them to take notice?
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No your quite right... I think people need to face facts that prices need to go up and up quite a bit to run a safe DZ. If i were Cessna or Pratt and Whitney I would not want a DZ flying my aircraft... and putting my good name in the papers for all the wrong reasons. Those aircraft will fly for a long time... but to keep them flying and ship shape costs money. Money that needs to be spent on a no object basis... Or at least to the point where it is just not cost effective and retire the aircraft. The trouble with a DZ is... the DZO is everything.. and much to involved in the finances.. so coupled to the fact of the lack of oversight.. its easy for them to get into the habit of letting mx slip. I don't know how or why the FAA have not come in by now with a heavy fist... It does nothing for the image of aviation as a whole having aircraft nose in.
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Yes Mark.... It would need to be adapted... Like part 91k was created. I would say it would improve safety in terms of MX Pilot's required to have greater experience.. Hours, Initial, and recurrent training. Flight time limitations, a safety and quality assurance program etc etc etc. Something would need to be established with regard to the training and checking requirements and who could perform that function. For it to work it would need to become under the remit of check airmen (or similar) as the FSDO is just to busy.
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Put it under FAR 135... all the shit drop zones would be gone... the ones with money who can look after their airplanes could then be brought up to standard. People would have to agree that it is going to cost more. It needs to be regulated.. what is going on now is nothing short of disgusting.
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That is not correct.... if a DZ put a sign up saying the aircraft is going from A to B sign up here for a ride... The FAA could hang them that would be a commercial operation and need an certificate under 135
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I think they (FAA) would be better of spending their time bringing sky diving under some form of FAR 135 regulation. This would do far more to increase safety at drop zones... it would also close many... but what is better less drop zones or less incidents
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I'm sure if the FAA had their way they would all but ban sky diving.