skinnyflyer

maybe you should go watch the ufo tv shows with pirana "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

yes 5000 views and 387 replies. thankyou.

well by your own definition this makes you a paranoid lunatic theorist. sorry i don't think anyone cares what a self proclaimed paranoid lunatic is onto. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

i certainly never said it wasn't. but if you watch the nova docu on the collapse they clearly misrepresent the construction by showing concrete slabs in the center instead of 47 steel beams, they change all the proportions to make it look flimsy and ready to pancake. and this is the docu that most people got their collapase explanation from. yes you seem to have trouble understanding a lot of things but keep trying. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

yes i agree as i mentioned in my previous post it was part of their plan. there could be many reasonble reasons such as the ones i just mentioned. the lack of iraqis does not disprove the complicity just as the flip question does not prove anything. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

this site is beyond ridiculous, i have read everything there before but just glancind at it now i noticed; " This is yet another example of pancaking" the pancaking theory was abandoned by the nist investigation because it couldn't explain what happened. so does this website disagree with the official story? they simpy nit pick at certain inconclusive evidence and site straw man arguments. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

good question. i don't know the answer. but i don't believe that it was an evil plot designed to justify invading iraq, it was designed to justify the previously mentioned PNAC world domination plans; to drastically increase the military size and budget, and to create support/remove opposition to mobilizing this military(patriot act). iraq is just one aspect of these plans, afghanistan and iran are clearly others and especially having a strong military presence in the entire middle east as this is where almost all of the worlds exportable oil remains. maybe hadn't planned which countries to invade first. maybe they weren't sure which bullshit media story (wmd) they would be able to sell to the public. maybe they couldn't find an iraqi terrorist group to blame it on. the point is there could be many reasonable answers if the us is responsible for 9/11 but we will never know. if you turn your question to the official story; if all the terrorist are saudi arabian they why the hell did the us invade afghanistan and iraq? "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

and how exactly does an on course sightseeing flight qualify as 'off couse or negligent air craft' are you somehow trying to suggest that off course or negligent air craft will not be intercepted even though that is and was the official norad procedure? "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

not sure what link you're talking about but the official nist investigation says 9 and 11 seconds which is pretty close to free fall speeds.wtc 7 fell at exactly free fall speed. the still unexplained mysterious collapse of wtc7, the molten steel, the many observed features characteristic of controlled demolition, and plethora of other unexplained events combined with an obvious coverup and ridiculous or non existant official explanation are more than 'little things'. here is an example of how nist deals with the molten steel; "NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY)—who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards—found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse. The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing." they don't deny its existance(surely they would deny it if there was no evidence of it), but they're saying because they don't think it should be there they will just ignore it. these are some of the greatest engineering failures in history yet they can't explain wtc7 and as for the collapse of wtc 1+2 they only pretend to expain up to the point of failure. why can't they reproduce any of these collapses with computer simulations? oh sorry they can but no one is allowed to see it. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

i think that one of the conrolled demolition theories suggest that thermite or thermate was used in combination with other explosives in order to have a top to bottom collapse. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

why would they shoot down planes that were off course? maybe because they were hijacked and headed for new york or other important targets.maybe to stop3000 people from dying. just maybe. so your counter argument is that bin laden's cave is the technological equivalent to norads command center. it looks like your arguments are just the utilization of junk logic. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

THIS IS RIDICULOUS, WHAT POSSIBLE MOTIVE COULD THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAVE TO ATTACK THE US? how about PNAC s (cheney,rumsfeld,wolfowitz,jeb bush etc.)plans for world domination. "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor..." (2000) http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a030892dominanceplan#a030892dominancepl an heres a good article ; http://empireburlesquenow.blogspot.com/2005/03/dark-passage-pnacs-blueprint-for.html THAT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING, THE US GOV WOULD NEVER BE SO EVIL AS TO EVEN THINK OF CARRYING OUT FAKE TERRORIST ACTIVITIES AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE. really...operation northwood(1962) "Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro, as part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative. The plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state-sponsored acts of terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer." "Destroying an unmanned drone masquerading as a commercial aircraft supposedly full of "college students off on a holiday". This proposal was the one supported by the Joint Chiefs of Staff" "Staging a "terror campaign", including the "real or simulated" sinking of Cuban refugees" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods so they came up with these ideas in the 1960 and thought they could get away with it(even unmanned drone planes being destroyed) so is it a stretch to think they could come up with similar plans 40 years later. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

and by evidence i guess you're refering to the ridiculous fake bin laden confession here; http://youtube.com/watch?v=L-8U81HBjrg even though osama bin laden publicly denied that he had anything to do with 9/11.what kind of terrorist doesn't take credit for their terror? or the supposed list of hijackers many of whom have come forward as being alive and well.(http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=1800#a091601stillalive) or the hijackers passport that magically survived a 500mph crash into the wtc and the subsequent explosion and fire and collapse and then glided down to the street to be conveniently found in excellent condition. or another piece of one hijackers passport that was found at the pentagon crash site.(http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=1700#a091201passportfound) or one of the hijackers luggage which was the only luggage that didn't make the flight. or maybe the koran that these FANATICALLY RELIGIOUS ISLAMIC extremists left in a STRIP BAR after getting DRUNK. or maybe their names on the flight manifests is your best proof...but wait a second NONE of the hijackers names were on ANY of the flight manifests, and furthermore, NO ARABIC NAMES were on any of the flight manifests. but i guess we should just trust the fbi after all they're so good they had complete biographies of the terrorists and were arresting people WITHIN HOURS of the attacks.(http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a091101quickstart#a091101quickstart) "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

""The focus of the investigation was on the sequence of events from the instant of aircraft impact to the initiation of collapse for each tower. For brevity in this report, this sequence is referred to as the 'probable collapse sequence,' although it does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached and collapse became inevitable." – NIST, p. 82" so NIST just invented a new phenomenon-global collapse- but doesn't even try to explain it. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

here is what the final official NIST investigation concluded; "The towers likely would not have collapsed under the combined effects of aircraft impact damage and the extensive, multi-floor fires if the thermal insulation had not been widely dislodged or had been only minimally dislodged by aircraft impact." – NIST, p. xxxviii thats funny then how did wtc7 collapse? they then went on to disprove their own fireproof theory with a shotgun blast test which showed that the fireproofing was only removed directly where the blast occured. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

"but not strictly speaking "high rises". " exactly, hence my previous statement-"your link doesn't have any examples of steel highrises collapsing due to fire. this debunking site is a joke, it doesn't debunk anything. " "The WTC collapsed not just due to the fire, it also had a wide body plane hit it at very high speed, which also knocked off the fireproofing from the steel. No other previous high rise fires have faced that. " -building 7 had no plane hit it and the fireproofing was not knocked off. did you look at the official damage pictures of building 7? the damage is only on one corner. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

sundevil777 "Steel structures have collapsed due to fire in the past:" your link doesn't have any examples of steel highrises collapsing due to fire. this debunking site is a joke, it doesn't debunk anything. -just relax, calm down and go back to the talking heads on your tv, they'll tell you what to do. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

sundevil777 "...not be a complete symmetrical collapse." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It wasn't." -how is straight down right into its own footprint not symmetrical. "-steel framed highrises have never collapsed from fire. " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Not true"-please provide just one example to back up your statement oh wait there are none. "There was severe structural damage to the building"-in my last post i gave a link to the official NIST report pictures which show minor damage. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

scramble != intercept you're right i guess the fighter jets give up when they can't find off course flights. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

here i found a couple of jet scramble articles with references; "Jets were scrambled 129 times."(2000) http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/analysis/norad/calgaryherald101301_scrables.html "the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said. " http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/analysis/norad/020812ap.html thats funny i thought that the dunbunking 9/11 article from popular mechanics said there was only 1 intercept in the last decade. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

here are the two pictures of structural damage from the NIST report; http://www.wtc7.net/damageclaims.html common sense, intuition, known science would all suggest that in the unprecedented, unlikely and unheard of event of collapse that it would not be a complete symmetrical collapse. -steel framed highrises have never collapsed from fire. -tall buildings that collapse from earthquake look like this; http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/collapsecases.html watch this video of a botched controlled demolition; http://www.argusleader.com/assets/mov/DF13214123.MOV here is a summary of the official story; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center#7_World_Trade_Center there has never been a building that collapsed exactly like a controlled demolition, had all the features of a controlled demolition and yet wasn't a controlled demolition. so there are two choices concerning wtc7; one is the official story or more accurately lack of story. an impossible hypothesis in the works. or controlled demolition which explains everything observed perfectly, matches all the data and is intuitive.(seeing as most people have never seen the video of wtc7 a good experiment would be to take the video to a demolition expert or structural engineer who is unaware of wtc7s collapse and ask them what they think) "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

"Why does an ex tenant of the WTC have access to military flight logs?" he doesn't, he's saying that if we had these flight logs it would be a smoking gun. "Prove it." "Where's the article? " i'll try to find to find it but feel free to search for info yourself. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

one of the first poster posted a link to the popular mechanics article; 9/11 debunking the myths. one of their debunks was; "In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America..." this has been refuted by multiple sources. other articles say many thousands of intercepts have taken place. here is one example; In an Associated Press article a NORAD spokesman, Maj. Douglas Martin, is reported as saying that from September 2000 to June 2001 (just ten months) NORAD scrambled jets (or diverted combat air patrols) 67 times to investigate aircraft going off-course or other suspicious events, and presumably many of these resulted in intercepts. here is a letter from a wtc tenant; John: I was a tenant at WTC1 in 1979-81. The only concern anyone had 20 years ago was a hijacked plane being flown into the towers. Here is the "Key" to unlock the door: The extensive flight logs for 20 years from the 3 military bases in the area and Port Authority responding to air threats is exemplary. Thousands of sorties run in response to threats, practice runs, false alarms, done weekly or daily over 20 years. Back in the late seventies the NY Post ran an article about the Port Authority bragging how their manned 24/7 response helicopter would be in the air within 4 minutes of an alert call going out per possible air threat to the WTC towers. There is [only] one occasion that I am aware of, or in most probabilities that any one else is aware of, in this exemplary record of response to air threats covering a period of over twenty years that the intercepts did not launch and were told to stand down, after going on high alert within a minute or two of the threat, not from just one threat but then two. That date was 9/11/01. This in itself is the most condemning fact of them all when that 20 year record is brought to light. The motive then becomes crystal clear in review of that exemplary response record to threats from the air against the WTC towers. No off course or negligent air craft came close. They were always intercepted and told to change their course or they would be blown out of the sky. It was a no fly zone and this happened to many pilots that intentionally or unintentionally flew too close to the WTC towers over those 20 years. somebody else mentioned that there are three criteria for scrambling jets; -off course -transponder off -no radio response each one individually meriting intercept. yet on 9/11 the official story tells us that the air force stood down in response to four hijacked jet liners that all met all 3 criteria and for well over an hour when normal intercepts only take 10-20 min. we are also told that flight 77 flew over the white house unimpeded, which you might expect to be the best protected air space in the world. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

video by edgar kraus; http://www.ifilm.com/video/2680445?loomia_si=1 "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

i challenge billvon and other skeptics to watch this video with an open mind(as impossible as that might seem). although its slow boring and long its a great overview of facts without sexy voice and propagandish music. http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5236492071990669218&q=coincidence+9%2F11 "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs