morris

Hi Shunkka, I´m looking forward to get the pics from you. Thanks!! And to anyone else: I´ll post some more pics tonight... Morris

Thanks to everyone who made this excellent competition happen! Organisation, courses and judging were perfect! Lillo rocks! Very special greetings to Toni - you are a very special person and I´m happy to know you!

BAD NEWS FROM ELOY! Now there´s an open letter from Larry at the Manifest. He (Larry) is saying that the swoopers would be responsible for the large number of canopy collisions and that he´ll contact USPA and other dropzones, trying to have them follow his new rules!!!

I´m right now in Eloy and in the alternate landing area you can only do 90degree turns, the 180dregree in the mainlandingarea goes for the desert as well. On hopnpops you still can play, but you have to announce before what you´ll be doing and hopnpops aren´t possible all the time... from what I´ve seen so far the rule isn´t making traffic any safer at all, it even seems to be the opposite as now faster canopies are turning lower and cutting through the slow traffic right before landing. Omar asked me to tell Larry I´m dissapointed about the new rule (havn´t done it so far but I will) cause he doesn´t seem to listen to the locals. So maybe it would make sense if more persons speak up?!

I´m using a Springo 140 ( with a smaller slider - opens almost like a BlackJack :-) ) for wingsuit and tight demolandingareas...

If we would know the diameter of your turn (or have an estimation), we could calculate the airspeed you had. That would be very interesting - the top airspeed of a canopy.

Set`em close! I`m interested in high top speeds :-)

So, what is the difference in your opinion?

Thanks, please let me know, I expect the difference to be quite reasonable. What I´m still more interested in is the differences inbetween the different types of HMA, 300 (340) and 500 (450).

So far, superstu has been the only one to come up with some numbers. Anyone else please? Mel wrote me that in his opinion the difference between 340 and 450 could only be notified by "the most attuned pilots"...

You´r saying you "feel"! that you would keep the speed longer... Do you have any numbers at hand about differences in distance? And, can´t it be that thinner lines recover a bit faster?? If thats correct you´d need to initiate a bit higher on thicker lines. Otherwise you´d need a bit more rearinput and this could be what´s killing a bit of the speed... Thoughts on this?

I´m sorry for everyone I´m boring with linedrag once more! (in case - just stop reading) Sometimes like ten weeks ago Mel wrote, that the line PD calls HMA 500 is a 450 line and what they call HMA 300 is a 350 line. If you calculate the diameter of those linetypes, the difference ("circle-surface-calculation") is just about 11% - if there wouldn´t be the brakelines that are way thicker on both linesets and causing therefore a bigdeal of the overall linedrag. 1st conclusion: The difference in overall linedrag is for sure way less than 10% (being optimistic for the thinner lines). That´s not even including "reynoldsnumber", if you include it, it´s eating up even more of this advantage... Now I´ve been thinking about the fact that the wing is causing for sure way more drag than the parasite drag created by pilot, lines, etc. (otherwise a ghostrider would be a suicide mission). Optimistic again for the advantage of thinner lines you could say that the wing has just a bit more drag than the "parasites" (might be even a lot more, I don´t know) and doing so calculate the wingdrag with 60% of the overall drag of the system and the parasite drag with 40%. Doing this, the difference would be down to an advantage of less than 4% overall drag. This would still make sense... But: The parasitedrag created by the pilot is at any given speed about ten times as high as the drag created by the lines :-( Now we´r down to less than 0.4% and most likely even way less... Couldn´t it be that - if there´s a difference in performance - it is most of all a psychological one? I remember Jonathan saying "give me 500 - I don´t care"... I´m not saying that thinner lines in general doesn´t make sense. Theory is just saying, that from a certain point on, it doesn´t really make sense anymore... For me the difference between Vectran 500 and HMA 500 is quite big, but the difference between those linetypes is way bigger and in addition it takes place in an "diameter-area" where it still makes sense to "downsize line diameter". So the question goes especially to pilots with experience on Velos with HMA 500 and HMA 300: Do you see a REAL difference in performance or does it just make you feel better? Thanks for any opinions, Morris

Yeah, it is me and I like the picture You took a lot!!! Thanks again, man!!! At the moment I am for the third time this winter in Lillo, will I see You there in April? Take care and all the best, Morris

I´ll be there! By the way: it´s going to be my fourth or even fifth "Lillosession" this winter! I´ve never been there till early November 2006 and like it that much... flying out next saturday for trainingcamp number 3... see you there!

Hi, is there anyone who has any news of interest from the symposium? Please let us know...

MEL, please tell us, what`s around the corner, I can`t wait to know. I don`t expect any further big improvements in performance in the future! Reasons are (for example) that 1.) If you compare the forwardspeed of a stiletto and a velocity of same seize and loading in regular straight full flight (no turn or dive) the velo is just a bit faster, but has a way higher rate of descent. This means that (7 years ago) we already had to put way more energy into the system to gain just a little speed. 2.) I´ve been told from the side of Icarus and Daedalus that we can`t make our profiles any thinner anymore (otherwise there wouldn`d be enough of a difference in the length of the ways the airflows have to travel above and below the canopy to create enough lowpressure on top to get the necessary lift, at least not at the speeds we`re flying with), so its all about reducing drag now. This shows by the fact that we´re talking more and more about linedrag and now even bodyposition starts coming more and more into the picture. 3.)We`re already very fast. SpeedCypres is there for a reason, we´re closing in on belly freefallspeeds vertical! - but in a turn the flightpath isn´t vertical, it´s a "verticalspiral", so to go down with "cypresfiringspeed" means, that your real airspeed on the flightpath has to be even higher! (How much higher depends on the diameter of the spiral.) ...to go just a bit faster now would increase drag big time. I believe in technology... but in the laws of physics as well... any opinions on that?

Even being PDsponsored, I ordered a VX exactly the same size as my velocities and jumped it about a season in my second rig on back to back loads (most of my jumps are back to back) to be able to really compare the different canopies. Later on I sold the VX again... In my opinion the VX had a better "best glide" and a slower rate of "slowest possible descent" in all other aspects I like the velos way more. I did some great swoops on the VX as well, but for those everything had to be perfect. In general I always had the feeling, that - coming out of the turn - the VX lost its speed faster/sooner. I don´t like: a)the high VX frontriser pressure, b)some of the openings I had on the canopy and c)its packing volume... Same size and loading the velo is much faster for sure...

1.The NEOS is ground hungry as hell. 2.A friend of mine already got one long time ago (one of the first to get one, full sponsoring as far as I know) and two or even three times he had to stop working (means jumping) for several days due to hard openings. Now he´s almost not using the canopy anymore and does his working jumps on his crossfire canopies...

I`ll put even thinner ones on a brand new one. But first I have to put at least a hundred jumps on the lineset that came with the canopy (vectran500) cause I just can`t cut away those unused lines. Could You?

Just to end this discussion: The Katana is the better canopy! Over and out... ;-)

What PD calls HMA 500 is - as far as I know (Mel posted something about those lines) - 440lb! I just put this type of lines on two of my three velos and I´m VERY happy with them! If seen many different types of lines and those are thin stuff for sure. If You go any thinner it´s very ineffective cause drag coefficient starts going up and eats up some of the advantage of less linesurfacearea (check for "Reynoldsnumber" - more turbulent airflow).

I´d be way more interested to hear (in addition)about your deviation/offset from the centerline of the course in nowind conditions...

For the last seven years I´ve been the videographer on the German national team and therefore I´ve been many times to many different DZs like almost all the major ones in the US and of course the bigger ones in Europe and Germany, so I got something to compare. At the moment I´m focusing more and more onto CanopyPiloting and came for that reason to Lillo - you can be sure, I´ll be back! First off: Jumpers wrote bad opinions about their facilities in this forum and while we´ve been there toilets and showers have been running, been open and clean. About three times per day I´ve been asked by different staffpersons if everything would be ok or if there´s something that could be done any better! Everybody was Very friendly, including the excellent pilots (by the way: spot always perfect, additional altitude many times). One day I wasn´t happy with my last jump ("don´t wanna end the day like that") and they fired up another load for me - in the last daylight! Accomodation was clean and for reasonable prices, same goes for food in the village. It doesn´t matter that the place is "in the middle of nowhere" cause every night jumpers ("first-timers" included) gathered at local bars having a good time. Someone called the landingarea a "demo" - I´m not sure if twice the size of a soccerfield with perfect grass on it just qualifies for being a demo, I think it makes a good landing area. Inexperienced jumpers - who may find the mainlanding for whatever reason too challenging - will find many other options all over the place. The pond has been in excellent condition with the official accuracy course set up and I´d call their rigger "a very good one". Prices for coffee, softdrinks and sandwiches at the DZ where cheaper than I expected and of good quality. The only thing they didn´t take care of were the weatherconditions - they didn´t have to - those have been perfect. UPDATE: Now I´ve been there again, this time in early January. Further improvements have been made: There´s now a very nice little bistro run by friendly spanish locals! For the swoopers: The pond is about getting even better (in preparation for the SpanishOpen/CanopyPiloting). Weather conditions during wintertime: Way better than expected! Perfect blue skies, almost no wind at all and comfortable temperatures in the afternoon. I´ll be there again soon... 2ND UPDATE: Now I´ve been there two more times... In February we´ve experienced a bit of wind but for anything but swooping it was no problem at all to keep on jumping. Swoopers went groundlaunching! There are excellent places just 10 miles away. One site is shaped in a way that it almost looks manmade, you can launch in ANY direction, so the direction of the wind is never a problem. Give it a try - you´ll love it! During this stay we could see that further improvements for the bistro and bar were on their way... Next visit took place in April. By this time the bar and bistro were almost finished, the area is very nice now! During this visit the SpanishOpen of CanopyPiloting took place. I´ve been very impressed by the organisation of this international competition. I´ve been to four Worldchampionships, a Worldcup and an Europeanchampionship, the Malevskycup in Russia and several Nationals and what Skydive Lillo managed to bring on its way with this event was just - WOW! They had FAI-Judges on site, a dream of a plane from the Spanish Army (CASA 235, fits 60 jumpers - for 16 swoopers!) and the pond and courses have been in such a perfect condition that they even could have had there a Worldchampionship or Worldcup for CanopyPiloting... ! See you in Lillo!

Am I wrong, having in mind, that it´s difficult to compare JVX/Velo seizes, cause in same seize the first one is way bigger?? (And in the case discribed by skymonkey the last one is in addition a much older canopy...)

Velocity96, Wingload 2.4, HMA, full RDS, 450degree, above 1100ft...