bowlan

not any more. we now manufacture the viatnam M18 flame-less color smoke grenade. no baffels and no ports. flame-less color smoke compositions white yellow red blue green smoke 60 second burn 35,000cfm. Price info removed by slotperfect lab testing will be complete the first week in 07 and yes they are legal to sell and buy without a ATF licence. www.flamelesssmokegrenades.com we are still the leader in flame-less smoke compositions. b.a.industries.

we have done it again. we developted a flame-less milatery version M18 color smoke grenade that is legal to sell and buy without a ATF licence. no ports or baffels. cool burn and hazmat free shipping. shipped by fedex ground. no energentic compounds allows hazmat free shipping. www.flamelesssmokegrenades.com now you guys can have your hard to find M18 smoke grenades with pull-pin ignition ask and you shall receive. b.a.industries.

we have completed the legal M18 milatery smoke grenade. lab testing will be complete the first week of 07 no baffels no ports just flame-less magic. www.flamelesssmokegrenades.com

burn time depends on smoke compositions. eny of these cans will technicly hold 4 or even 5 minuts of smoke time. it simply depends on the composition used. but you have to consider the more comp that is pressed into the casing the longer the burn the hoter the casing will become. that may not be a consern with aircraft smoke but if its straped to your leg the colder the burn the safer it is. it all comes down to the amount of time in smoke you actully need,will two minuts be enough or do you intend on straping glider wings to your arms. basicly how long does it take to land after the jump. do you need the cans to continue smoking after you have landed or should they burn out just before you land. we can pack enough comp in a M18 to burn for 4 minuts,but is that actully needed. another thing to consider,i know a lot of you have probably never manufactured smoke compositions before or you wouldent question a comp price of 10 to 15 dollars each. but when it comes to prices we all like the best for the least but what brings up the retail price for any smoke cartridge that is made in the u.s.is chemical cost. the prices for u.s.chemicals are very high to say the least and when it comes to color smoke comps the dye is the highest of all the chemicals used. dyes is you are lucky enough to convince the supplier to sell to you are sold by the 55 pound drum. or if you are convincing as i am you could convince the supplier to sell you color dyes by the 10 pound containers at around 30 dollars per,pound. and remember the dye doesent go a long way because you are mixing 50 percent by weight of dye to composition. an example is this. if you have a cool burn smoke composition and if you bought the chemicals direct from a chemical supplier two to one you will need to buy a minium order of 50lbs.of each chemical or they will hang up on you. if you buy your smoke comp as a kit from firefox plan on spending $20.00 for each ankle because to fill an M18 it will cost over $20.00ech in chemicals per,smoker plus shipping plus the cost of a pull cord igniter kit plus you will need to buy the oxidizer seperate to make the igniters,also dont forget the casings those are also extra. Slotperfect: please PM the author for pricing information

sorry for the web site. system crashed and it seems everything went south. we are trying to repair the web site but this looks like it will take some time.

in regards to the skydiving smoke products. i have received samples of the canisters now in use and have dismanteled the casings and figured the cost to load or produce. log onto our web site www.flamelesssmokegrenades.com click on skydiving smoka samples. there you will see samples of the skydiving and stunt plane smoke casings. this will give you a idea as to the cost to fill such cans with color smoke compositions. these are now total cost but simply the manufacturing cost to fill each can.

powder would probably work if it was under pressure. the question would be what source of pressure. CO2 then what would you use to activate the CO2 canister. open flow would work and the question there would be how to contain the powder and open the tube to allow controled powder output. you can creat your own cool burn smoke and there is a trick that will stop the smoke from flaring up. just ad baking soda to the composition. or simply let us finnesh the development of the product and buy it ready to use direct from liberty when the product has completed all the test.

that i dont know. is they could the shipping would be more than it would be worth. that you would have to research for the correct answer.

class-c fireworks require a permit to manufacture and buy. the trick is to bring the product as close to the edge as possable without going over the legal edge. that is often the difference between a good pyrotechnic product and just the run of the mill product that every body else if selling. smoke compositions are not considered explosive by ATF and are exempt from that class. what brings the product to the edge is the composition that is used as the ignition source. most often that chemical is pyrogen. even estes igniters require hazmat fees do to the pyrogen that coats each igniter. when we manufacture electric ignition on our 50mm.smoke cartridges we first dip the ingiters into acitone and remove the pyrogen. we dont need pyrogen to ignite our compositions as we use our own formula to creat our flameless ignition composition. our blend of flameless ignition composition does all the work of pyrogen and there is no sparks or flame. also the formula is a closly guarded trade secreat. we do ad a blend of binders into this formula simply to render the flameless ignition composition impossable to anelize after if hardens.

the m-80s that were around when we were kids used potassium perchlorate and germen dark aluminum powder in a very fine grade. sinse the good old days they have decided to use patasium chlorate as the oxidiser. potasium chlotate is a lot more stable and limits the chance of it exploding when blending. some even use a lower grade of aluminum powder to stabelize the compositions even further. the easest way you can tell if the good stuff was used at the 4th in those mrters is the sound. the better that grade of the chemicals the deeper the boom.

smoke composition dont react in a chemical reaction. the prod is produced from heating the dye particals. heat causes the dye particals to breat down into micro particals. the emitting smoke carries the dye particals into the air.

canister size is the first thing on the list. everything else will fall into place.

thank you for jumping in and explaining what our intentions are. sincerely, scott bowlan

yes but at what cost,the point of it all is to develop a safe smoke product for skydiving that has a price that you guys wont need a bank lone to buy.

orion sells floating smoke cans simular to the orange comet cans wholesale for $20.00 each. they are making a killing. $45.00 each retail.

all commercail fireworks smoke devices are basicly imported from china. they do burn cool but their standard in manufacturing their smoke compositions are lower than the u.s.standards. they are prone to explode. they do emit sparks and flame on first ignition do to the pyrogen ignition comp. the cause for the china smoke fountains exploding is not the chemical make-up.it is simply air pockets that accure during transport. they have started pressing the compositions with more pressure per squar inch to over come this problem but their biggest problem is the potential fire hazard that comes with the device. as they do suddenly flarup or suddenly shot a 9 inch flame. the basic chemical make up in china smoke is as follows; Smoke Dye 36%Potassium Chlorate 32%Sugar 20%Magnesium Carbonate 9%Sodium Bicarbonate 3%

our standard 50mm.catridges produce 35,000cfm. 60-second burn. Edited by slotperfect.. and our smoke products are completely flame-less. the size depends on what the costomer needs. the 60 second version are basicly designed for paintball. if you need 15 min,of smoke we can do that to. we dont use chambers or spark arresters simply because we dont have to. we are working on a new version for skydiving right now. these will be waterproof and come in several colors with pull cord ignition. we have selected a dealer for all of our producte we are developing for skydiving. Added by slotperfect: please contact the author via PM for dealer information

thanks for the valuable info. based on what you are now paying for 60 seconds of smoke we could sell ours for edited by slotperfect.

the ignition design would be that simular to the M18 only in a legal version or simular to the ignition used in floating orange smoke signal cans. the price would be lower than the black market M18 simply because there is no compotition on our flame-less smoke ignition formulas. even though i have no idea what the curent use smoke price is there is no dought we could do a lot better.

thanks. yes we have already had our product tested and re-classified by the exoplosive lab and is now classed at UN 0197 1.4g.

actully we are involved in a 5 year contract with the navy for replacing their M18 color smoke grenades with our cool burn flame-less smoke grenades. the output is 35,000 per,60 second time frame per,45 grams of composition. the M18 smoke grenade holds 11.5 ounces of smoke composition per grenade. our smoke compositions are military type compositions and product the same if not more smoke then the M18. the compositions we manufacture do not produce slag as this would cause spot-fires in dry conditions. basic smoke composition that product slag are of china origin as this is the most widly used smoke composition in smoke generators do to the cool burn properties. the bigest problem any smoke producing product has is the first prime ignition composition used to ignite the smoke compositions. this formula is pyrogen. what we have developted is a replacement ignition formula that replaces pyrogen and is also the formula we use in our smoke compositions that enable our smoke compositions to ignite and burn with no sparks or flame. the total weight of the design would be around just over one pound. i thank all of you for your input as you guys have experence in this type of use. your input is what we need to fine tune the product.

we manufacture flame-less smoke cartridges for paintball and are thinking of manufacturing color smoke cartridges with ankle attachments for skydiving. could someone tell me if there would be a market for this product. the cartridge would be available in red-green-white-yellow-orange-blue and violet smoke with burn times from 3 to 4 miniuts each. completely spark and flameless and would contain a cool burn smoke composition.