awsee1

The "LAW" does not apply to this forum. Only civility and that which is accepted. I'm about to report your performance to the Administrators of this site. For the record you're only a "moderator". Quade, you remind me of a time when all the 5th and 6th graders left the school bus. They handed the last 4th grader that guarded "orange patrol" belt, and he certainly felt he was "KING". The difference was he was a 4th grader, and the fact that he probably had no more education than you, despite your age, is absolutely NO excuse for your actions. Bren

Go back and look at the second paragraph of the post I quoted from you. Yes. That is what a personal attack looks like. Please avoid them in the future. Hang in there Quade. I ADMINISTER no less than 10 sites I put up myself. That's right Quade..server, site and admin...Lock stock and barrel. You're entitled to your "opinion" but the second paragraph was third party reference plain and simple. No personal attacks in sight. Maybe we need to move this discussion. I for one am enjoying the incredible knowledge leveraged on this site, and can't believe the censorship and abuse of "perceived" power I'm seeing on this site. I've got to wonder if "progress" is the real problem. Bren

Or...who he could be. All the more reason never to be discouraged. Some people just vent their frustration when they can't stand where something they have no control of is going. Kinda' like pulling the board out from under the checkers if you will. But the question is a very good one.........where is this thread going? Who knows. Surely with all the topics and threads on this site there should be no reason whatsoever to have to rain on this parade in that fashion or at this time. I remember the words of a less than notable philosopher who made a living taking possession of large objects that weren't his and breaking them up to sell them as them thar' "pieces parts" not only because he knew not only that their sum was worth more than the whole, but that they were also virtually untraceable. Not a bad way to make a living, it's just a matter of ...getting away with it. We call that "selling more BookSssss". Bren

Ok so you share our frustration with this case. Radical departure from anything I've heard to date from the 3 letter Hoover acronym. I've got to say Ckret, this is definitely a GOOD thing. Maybe you're on the level. I've reviewed the H-bach chronicles and I'm more frustrated than ever. I've said it before, many times...Sumpin' is wrong here. Bren

One of the assumptions stated by authorities is that he was not an experienced jumper. If this is true, then the simplest assumption is that that ripper would have been pulled sooner rather than later. A partially deployed/ripped 28' canopy + all the associated HW wouldn't be that difficult to find especially since the placard from the rear door was found. It's just too easy to say he died in the jump. Combining possibilities w/ the find at Tena's bar ......I think we've got a lot of ground to cover. Bren

That's a very good question. There has been a lot of speculation WRT this case that needs to be verified. 377 your technical knowledge is superb and I hope you'll stick around for the duration of this dig. I've also got a question that I'm sure would have been answered a long time ago if possible, but I thought I'd ask. We know that the flight "black box" records all sorts of data with regard to the flight should it ever be needed. Does it not record cockpit communications, and would/could it include the Cooper/cockpit intercom communication? My guess is that even if it didn't by default, there should have been an option to have turned this on for this particular flight (305). Bren

Sorry, I don't participate in "we". You have absolutely mistaken me for someone else. The internet exists for my amusement. If that was too distracting, consider that this thread is about something 35 years ago and over 1000 posts long. Take a moment and re-read them and just give us the Cliff Notes. I'm more than positive you're capable of reading this thread yourself. Your icon says "interior designer" to me. My guess is that you're in the Christiansen camp. You're certainly entitled to your bias and your opinion. ...so make your case please. Bren

The "Focus" is what's important here. I thought we were making progress until we strayed off course. One step at a time. Bren

S-D Jack, Thanks for the reply. I knew that what I posted was not necessarily accurate. I knew enough to be Uhhh...."DANGEROUS" LOL. If we'd have asked for what you posted, we may not have "received", or we may not have known what to ask for. Again, thanks. Bren

Ok. I found it hard to believe that the flight recorder wouldn't have been accurate. No GPS back then, but the WAAS beacons that existed still correct GPS signals for accuracy from about 100 meters to about 3, even today. Not sure they were that accurate back then with all the upgrades, but we're certainly not dealing with mash. CKRET's second post clarified the matter wrt the flight path, I just wasn't sure I was on the right page. AGAIN, I think we need to take this one step at a time, only because I want this case solved. Bren

CrackingPLF, Can you summarize just where you're at on this for those of us who don't understand WRT paradigms and possibly the original theory? What I mean is WRT the recorder and flight path, was the 35 year assumption on this incorrect or are we verifying that it was???? Thanks Bren

Yes possibly, IF he's dead. But it also leads to more questions like "where is the rest of the money?". Bren

Ckret, Thanks. I look forward to the post. You have a point WRT "invasion", except that that same point could even have been made in '71 or 72'. N'est pas? Bren

Admittedly I've never understood the maps Orange1? posted of the area and where Cooper might have landed. A little much for me, but probably because I'm missing something. The AIC made no secret of the fact that he thought it was probable that Coop landed in Lake Merwin and died. I saw posts some time ago that called this into question, but quite frankly I've never understood them. I for one, respect the work that was done, I just don't understand it. I know that Orange apologized for reaching the limit on posting jpg's and I realize there was a point to be made. Again, I don't understand it,things have to made very clear to me. Is it possible that Cooper landed in either the Columbia or Merwin? Ok...ok..what point were you trying to make? Personally I think this is as good a starting point as there is, and needs to be cleared up. Right now, this particular part of the case is not at all clear to me. Thanks Bren

Ckret, A few more questions if you don't mind. 1. You posted the Coop descriptions from Flo and Tina. Do we know who interviewed them? I'm curious for a reason. Was it the AIC, agents in Minn/St. Paul or possibly Harold Campbell and/or his staff in Vegas? 2. Always knew that #1 above existed, but I'm not aware of a Hancock description, does it exist? 3. Until recently, I was certain that no one from the cockpit got an eyeful of Coop. Can't remember where, but I'd heard it mentioned that Ratczak actually got a look at Cooper. Any info on this? 4. And now the biggie. Do you intend to interview any of these people? If you can't, due to time/constraints, and of course a 36+ year old case and budget constraints, I'd like to suggest something. Thanks Bren

Thanks, That's what I wanted to know.

Ckret, I read that you've used this method of opening cases to the public to solve many bank heists. Since you're a relatively young agent, I'm wondering if this is something new at the Bureau, or has this always been an option for the AIC? Specifically, would this method have been an option back in 71 or was it mandatory that cases be investigated in secrecy? Thanks Bren

Some people had been rather acerbic with me in PM. I mistook you for one of those PMs and on rewind I realize you weren't one of them. Regardless of what your theory is on the case, this is recommended viewing. There are a couple of things about that episode frozen in time. I watched it again last night and can't be thankful enough that it was made. First, it's one of the few interviews (if not the only?) Florence has given outside the FBI. I seriously doubt she'll give another. Second there is some pretty valuable insight into the case. And yes, there is the sketch, and it's not just the sketch, but what Flo has to say about it. I just don't think it can be written off, especially if you understand the dynamics. Never "write off" anything.... evaluate, weigh, re-sample, re-evaluate, context, and and work with whatever you're given. One has to wonder just how the Roy Rose original sketch evolved from a rather sinister looking man with a receding hairline, to the everyman sketch. I believe that just about any Caucasian male from 24-50 who does not have a nose like Jimmy Durante, or ears like Prince Charles, or a, giraffe neck, or a broad face like Ernest Borgnine could be favorably compared, hence the term "everyman". There are absolutely no outstanding features whatsoever. We know from "Norjack" that Cooper was a well built man. I'd like to start a slow crawl. One baby step at a time. Unfortunately, I was unable to produce the link I intended, that will be forthcoming. Bren

Please elaborate on the "9" and the one?? Please elaborate on this 88 composite. I'm aware of 2 popular sketches. One is a very skinny nosed thin man, and the other could be just about anyone. I've seen Weber compared to the "anyone" sketch, and McCoy compared to "stick-man". The FBI has proffered these sketches and I've got to believe they're just about it, sucks doesn't it? I've heard of an original Roy Rose sketch, not sure on this one. I heard something about an Unsolved Mysteries sketch, and I've searched in vain, but cannot find it. Do you have it? Thanks for sharing, but you've got to give me something. What do you have to help solve this case? Thanks, PHOENIX

Safe, I'll look for your youtube post, haven't seen it yet. Perhaps you could at least let us know which vid it's under. I've heard about this picture, but I'm perplexed about some things, really perplexed. Suddenly I start to think about trust and Phoenix, and I'm even more perplexed. B.

Safe, Y'know I don't see anyone on Youtube with 9 of anything...even warts. Nonetheless, I've got to consider you a real American hero for your stated "effort". And this fall, when Linus is in the pumpkin' patch waiting....and...waiting.....I'll be there with him because I know you'll appear out of nowhere to assure us that the great PUMPKIN exists. You just play that 'ol pipe and I'll get right in line and follow 'ol Pied one ;). Did I mention that you were an AMERICAN hero?...sorry..oops...I ..forgot....

The question isn't whether 35 years after the fact "you" missed something, but rather whether or not a Gov't agency MISSED a very big something. "MISSED" is the question. I've got 60 on this ;). I was really hoping to hear from CKRET on this. I just thought he'd have a word or two for us. B.

I'm curious to know why you think this case is solved? It doesn't seem that there is a "smoking gun" at all in any of this....only a bunch of speculation and theories, that at best, very loosely tie anyone of the major "suspects" presented. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but has one single piece of HARD evidence been shown by anyone? I just think that there is so much missing from all of this to be able to say this case is solved. I'm glad you asked. Let me say this, if this were late Nov of '71 this case would have been a piece of cake. Fast forward 35 years of hodge podge and time-rot and after some 8 years of investigation it appears it's been solved. My understanding is that the toughest part was sewing up the leads and ends after 35 years. Not at all as easy as 1971 for obvious reasons. To this I can say that if hours of library microfiche, countless hours of reasearch, and hopping on planes to catch "Florence" for an interview in her new locale, a luncheon interview with Himmelsbach and much much more in the way of investigation isn't enough, maybe you should just understand that there are 2 individuals who've solved this case after 8 years of exhaustive work. One lost his life to a debilitating disease. Neither of them had a horse in the race or an agenda aside from solving one of the 20th century's greatest mysteries. YES...the FBI(Himmelsbach included) look pretty bad...not that much of that isn't already available on youtube. I think it's time to come clean. Bren

What I'd like to know from Larry Carr, is what the FBI is prepared to do to solve this case? ??? Are we simply going to use suspect degraded DNA to quote/unquote "eliminate" certain suspects or are we going to proceed with the investigation? This case wasn't that hard to solve, even 35 years later and what is troubling is that there doesn't seem to be a genuine effort by the FBI to get this done. Is the FBI willing to come clean and admit past mistakes? It's got me and my neighbor and even 60 minutes wondering what is going on. The one thing about 60 is that they're pretty damn good at follow-ups! Bren

The DNA from the tie is indeed suspect to say the least. I wonder about the chain of custody of that tie over the years and we're going to quote/unquote "eliminate" suspects based on this??. Thirty Six years is enough to petrify soup to say the least. Speaking of "chain of custody" this is the same chain that cannot locate the cigarette butts that could have irrefutable DNA. We're told that "techs are looking for it". WTF...?? Question for agent Carr. Does the FBI REALLY want to solve this case?? Honestly, I have serious doubts not that it wasn't already obvious. Bren