Ckret

I can answer that, Cooper wanted the stairs down at takeoff, when he discovered that was not possible, he wanted the aft door open at takeoff, which it was.

I am familiar with the work but liken it to the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon." As are my thoughts on most scholarly works relating to the criminal mind. Just my utilitarian bent on the subject matter.

For the record (by-the-way who is keeping that?) Cooper was not unintelligent, he was lazy. He used his intellect to make up for effort. He would solve half the puzzle and make up the rest based on his logic and knowledge instead of study. How do we know this? The biggest clue is instead of getting another job or two to make the money he needed he took the quick way of crime. He knew some of the details of his plan but obviously missed a few. Cooper is not unlike anyone who commits high profile crimes, inflated sense of self, higher the average intelligence and sense of entitlement.

Ratczak was the flight engineer. Maybe we should bring Anderson into the picture, I'll go over what he had to say and post it. He did not give much of a statement, neither did Scott. Hancock gave a good statement, i'll post what she had to say. In fact when you compare Hanock with Mucklow we learn Cooper had the chute on prior to Hancok leaving the plane in Seattle.

Jo, This may come as a shock to you but my job is to have an opinion on what the evidence, witnesses and lab reports say. I have 20 years (Actually 19 but 20 sounds more round) of schooling and experience with regard to criminal matters. Granted my expertise is bank robbery, but I do have a solid foundation in most investigative matters (weak in cyber and sex crimes). The fact of the matter is that it would not be unusual not to find prints of value on the resume. We all handle documents and items in like nature. For example, Duane prints off his resume and holds it in a certain fashion to inspect and read it. If you or anyone else were to handle the document you would do it in the same manner as Duane, diminishing the value of any prints left by Duane. This is why five of the prints on the resume could be related to your elimination prints, as you most likely were one of the last to touch it. Duane's prints, if he held the document, are on the resume. Due to many factor's, making a comparison of the latents to Duane's known master prints was not possible. This is why the lab stated to do any further comparisons they would need a set of Major Case prints from Duane, which we don't have. I am done trying to explain this, take from it what you will and run in the direction you choose.

This is where you brilliant types leave me shaking my head as well as the rest of the theorist who want to put the Portland area as part of Coopers plan. If Cooper needed to land around Portland or Vancouver he would have directed the pilots to fly that direction. He would have given nothing away in regard to his escape by saying, "fly V23." This would assure the plane would have flown over Portland. If he cared at all where he was going to bail he would have dictated a flight path. There was nothing to gain by withholding a flight path. Cooper had to have known the planes path could be tracked at all times, therefore, what would be the point in leaving such a critical detail so open ended. I know Uncle Sluggo likes to think there is only one choice the pilots could take so there was no need to tell them. This, however, isn't true, there are several low level routes from Seatac as well as point to point. As I have said many times, just before they were cleared for V23 they were going to fly out to the coast and turn south. Especially with the conditions of the night it makes no sense not to direct the flight path. If it were a clear night maybe you don't say (although it still does not make sense) because you could look out and determine if the crew took the route you wanted, if not correct them. But he would not be able to do that in this case.

Another clue pointing to the oscillation and bump being different events is the fact they spoke in the plural for the oscillations and singular for the bump. I would think air crews are exacting in the cockpit in word and deed (at least I hope).

By default I meant that when the pilots fly with the wheels down they always fly at 15 degrees so when they reported Coopers demands they just said flaps at 15 degrees, not flaps down. I realize they didn't "miracle their ass down" Like asking for a kleenex to blow your nose. To a large degree it doesn't matter, however, there is not much on this case to draw from so every little bit counts in some way.

I never thought about this, untl Sluggo just referenced it, but another clue we have that the oscillation and bump were two different incidents is the visual of the crew. At 8:11 when the crew reported the oscillation there is no way they could see the lights of the suburbs. As far as Cooper knowing where he was, I think Uncle Sluggo is hittin the sauce again. I took the day off, but Monday I will scan the item you want. If I can stop what i am doing and donate four hours to the Weber mess I guess I can give some in a direction that may go somewhere.

Dave, I'll explaine it, Duanes prints are most likely on the resume but because of the touch of others are of no value. As for the flaps at 15 degrees, now i am confused. In the crew interviews they listed Coopers demands as I laid them out. Could it be that when a 727 flys at 10,000 feet with wheels down you would only fly at 15 degrees. If so, maybe they reported 15 degrees by default. As for the RTTY time stamp, the person communicating with 305 kept a handwritten log with time entries at each line. I'll compare the two logs to see if there is any difference

He was in the bathroom for a "few minutes" whatever that means. He took his briefcase and bag with him. He looked no different when he came out; maybe a half pound lighter. Yes, the bathroom was processed. The crew did not try to leave the plane, at this time the passengers were still onboard.

MYTH BUSTING IN PROGRESS: This is what Cooper relayed to the crew through Mucklow: (1) Fly to Mexico City non-stop, if you can't make it then anywhere in Mexico. (2) Fly with landing gear and flaps down (3) Do not fly above 10,000 feet (4) Fly with the lights out in the cabin (5) Do not land in the US for fuel or any other reason. (6) No one aft of the first Class Curtain (7) After takeoff the stewardess will be allowed to the cockpit. (8) The rear door open and the stairs extended for takeoff. Cooper did not request the flaps be set at 15 degrees. Cooper never requested a speed. Cooper never asked for the plane to speed up or slow down. Cooper did not request flight updates from the crew at any time during the incident. THE TIME LINE SHIFT From re-reading the interviews and logs, the work going on here, the money (how and where it was found) and much thought on the subject, this is how the time line has shifted: At 7:42 Cooper called to the cockpit and told them he could not get the stairs to open. The crew slowed the plane and the stairs opened a bit. (my thoughts here) So now Cooper is looking at the stairs twisting his head around like a dog hearing a high pitch noise trying to figure it out. He soon gets it, "the stairs drop by gravity, if i walk out on them they drop, the further my weight gets out over the stairs, the lower they go." Having realized this Cooper finalizes whatever it is he needs to do and by 8:05 he is ready to go. He now starts to slowly test out his theory by walking out a few feet on the stairs. As he does they drop a bit further, causing the opening in the rear of the craft to get larger. Because of this, the air pressure in the cabin starts to change. Rataczak sees the cabin pressure gauge oscillating at 8:10 to 8:12 and reports it to NWA flight ops. For the next five to ten minutes Cooper gets it all figured out and jumps, creating the "bump" 5 to 10 minutes after the last contact at 8:05. The oscillations and bump are two different events confused as one by the agents conducting interviews. This confusion led investigators to believe the 8:11 report by Rataczak was the jump.

The person who actually managed the operation in 74 was interviewed by agents after the find in 80. He is the one who gave comment about junk from the bottom being processed through the dredge. i'll go back and dredge up the interview. As i rememeber he gave the impression anything sent through, like bags of cash, would have been torn apart.

When Cooper told Scott he could not get the stairs to lower, he (Scott) slowed the plane and leveled it. The problem with the city lights is there was a 5000 foot ceiling. Go back to the old thread and start on page 49, post 1225. From there a several page discussion on the money can be read. Whatever happened to safecrack?

Orange, The prints that are taken from those arrested are stored by the FBI at our lab. On 01/17/97, the prints associated with Weber were placed on film and archived. A set of prints taken by the US Marshal's Service from an arrest in San Francisco on 08/23/1944 were fed into the AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) computer system to serve as Weber's Master Set. The ones used for comparisons. The only way Duane could have altered this is if he was able to convince someone within the FBI to access the lab, locate his file and replace all of his prints. The print cards would also have to be duplicated with the exact information from the old cards, to include the signatures of the arresting individual and Duanes'. In other words it didn't happen.

Jo, I thought you knew Duane's history, sorry for revealing that to you over the forum. None of the arrests were for violent crimes, I can post what he was arrested for or PM you. In regard to the print examination, I didn't do it so it is not "what I think" it is what the lab is reporting. None of the prints on the resume matched those from flight 305 or Duane, five matched your prints. They did say that to make a full analysis they needed more prints from you and Duane. They are called "Major Case Prints" and involve taking prints from the side of the fingers, lower joint and palm. As I wrote in an earlier post, they also used a set of Duane's prints from a 1944 arrest to compare with those from flight 305 with negative results.

Jo, Duane's Master Set of prints on file with the fBI came from an arrest on 08/23/1944. These are the prints the lab used for comparison with the unknown fingerprints recovered from flight 305, with negative results.

Jo, I have located the investigative file on Duane which is chalk full of information that i am willing to provide you, I'll start with this: On July 24 1997 our lab received the hand printed memo you have made mention of, Duane's resume and a set of your fingerprints for elimination. On 11/06/1998, the lab reported that there were 19 prints of value discovered on the resume, of which 5 were yours. The remaining 14 prints of value were compared to the known prints of Duane Weber with negative results (meaning they didn't belong to Duane). The 14 unknown prints from the resume where compared to the unknown latent prints recovered from flight 305 with negative results. The known prints of Duane Weber where compared to those of the unknown latent prints recovered from flight 305 with negative results. No prints of comparison value were recovered from the hand printed memo you supplied. I now have and will keep at my desk the file on Duane. There are over 500 hundred pages in the file; his tax returns, court filings, interviews with relatives, results of the lab tests........ and so on. If you want more answers to your questions I have them.

There is no way of knowing whether or not the prints recovered on the plane are Coopers or not. However, if we had a suspect in mind and compared his prints to those recovered, and they matched (and he had not been on the flight) then we could say there is a match. I did not compare any prints, our lab did, and found that Webers prints did not match any recovered from the plane.

Jo Your right, I did miss one but not Dwayne Webber, that must have been a misspelling by a clerk. He was arrested on 09/17/1943 as Wanye L Weber in Baltimore, BPD case #43-59395

Jo, the arrest is in the system (the only way the arrests get into the system is if the arresting authority forwards the prints and charging info) and I am looking at it right now. On 06/27/1976 Duane was arrested by the Jasksonville (Fl) Sheriff's Office for Carrying Concealed Firearm, Receiving Stolen Property and DWI. JSO case number 76-278392. The prints were forwarded to the FBI just like all of the other 26 arrests under his various alias names.

Jo I did prove it didn't happen, go back and read my post from about 12:30 this afternoon.

I'll vouch for the Collins name for Jo, Weber used the following names: Duane Weber Duane L Weber Duane Lorin Weber Duane Larin Weber Duane Loren Weber John Collins John Chalk Collins John Claudin Collins John Claudian Collins He also used different dates of birth and Socials. Weber was arrested 26 times under the various names provided (arrests that were submitted to the FBI, there could have been more but for minor offenses) starting on 12/22/1942 and ending on 06/27/1976. All 26 arrest would have been processed by the sheriff's department were the arrest occurred or the United States Marshal Service (he committed a few federal crimes). One set of prints would have been maintained by the local arresting authority the other copy sent to the FBI. When the FBI receives the prints they create a "Master Set" of prints related to each person that prints are submitted for. If there are multiple sets for one person, the techs will use the best prints from each set to make one best Master Set. The odds that Weber was able to have someone on the inside of the FBI to alter this process is not a reality. Someone suggested comparing all prints taken from Weber (AKA) et al to those recovered from flight 305. All of the prints are at the FBI, or at least the 26 I referenced.

who provided you with and what information do you have that agents did not properly handle the evidence in this case with regard to collection and processing procedures. If the cigarette butts were destroyed it was done by an evidence custodian long after they were collected, processed at the lab and sent back to the division for storage. If they were destroyed it would have been a mistake but one made I am sure in good faith. The butts were processed, photographed and had given all they could with regard to the investigative techniques of the day. Why they wouldn't have continued to store them i don't know, but I am sure they thought, why keep them, the case is not activly being investigated and they are no longer of value. I'll answer my own question, you don't have any information that points to the collection procedures used by agents because nothing has ever been released or reported on the matter.

Cooper was never described with wearing eyeglasses, just the sunglasses and only after he had made his demands to Schaffner.