Ckret

Because I like you people. The attached pictures were captured by an AF chase plane during the testing. The plane is NWA flight 305 the one Cooper jumped from. The first two pictures show the sled at the bottom of the stairs. The third is just as the sled was pushed off the stairs. You can see once the weight was removed the stairs are back up into the plane which caused the pressure increase inside the aircraft.

The pressure bump was not caused by Cooper jumping out of the plane, it was caused by the airstairs slamming back against the aircraft when his bodyweight was removed from them. The only way to do this in a rapid enough motion to cause the movement is to move to the bottom of the stairs and jump.

Neither requested Victor 23. The pilots and NWA flight operations wanted to fly out to the coast and where waiting for clearance to do so. It was not until just before takeoff that they were cleared through Sacramento via Victor 23. Cooper originally stated they could land anywhere in Mexico but after discussion he agreed to Reno. Of course we know now Cooper could have cared less because he wasn't going to be on the plane anywhere near any of those locations. This next point is a crucial clue, Cooper did not care which flight path 305 took. In fact when they were on the ground in Seattle Cooper was told there was a delay in takeoff because the crew had to file their flight plan (this was after fueling but they were still having discussions on which was the best flight path). Cooper's reply was, "It doesn't matter, they can file it in the air."

Thanks for the breakdown, the only thing I can think of is a clarification; I know what your saying when you write, "the money is in the same order as when it was handed to Cooper" but the order per serial number was never documented. There is no indication the money was re-bundled. Does anyone have $200,000 they can loan out for 3000 days. Of course for testing purposes only, I'll give it back when were done.

This is a big misunderstanding about the money, it all had to be manually scanned. Tellers had a bill list of all 10,000 20's and if someone came in with a boat load they would do a spot check to see if any of the serials poped up. As for bills being scanned when they go through US Treasury, its to look for counterfeiting and they don't scan the serial numbers. So Cooper could have spent the money and unless he passed one at a bank where a teller manually looked up the number it would have never been noticed. We really need to shore up discussion on the money because it is the key to almost all theories about what happened to Cooper. For example, someone mentioned the possibility Cooper made away with some of the money and some was lost the night of the jump. Could not have happened according to the condition the money was found in. The rubber bands would have rotted long before the bundles were found on the beach, meaning there would not have been bundles if the money was in the environment unprotected.

Nice work, I am getting in touch with some private companies who offered their assistance in this area, I think we will be able to use your work as a starting point. So here is the criteria for my theory, Cooper had to land some place where he died, that his body would have gone unnoticed and the area had to be capable of feeding into the Columbia (keep in minds the 77 flood). This area had to be, according to the flight crew, in the areas north of Vancouver between the 8:11 - 8:15 time frame. It looks as though from your work that many aspects, if not all of the above theory is an impossibility. This is not a bad thing, it now frees up other possibilities

I am with you on the oscillation, when i read through the case file it seems as if the "pressure bump" and oscillation were one in the same. For me the finding of the money changes all of that. If there is no logical, verifiable piece of evidence or information that can point to the money ending up where it did by human hands, then it had to get there on its own from the environment. Since I can't find anything that says it was human, then it had to be environment. Because there is no way the money could have ended up where it did from the original search area, then the original dropzone was calculated wrong. Therefore, it stands to reason that the crew felt oscillations at 8:12 and the pressure bump a few minutes later. The second officer stated the last contact they had with Cooper was 8:05 and it was 5 to 10 minutes after that they felt the pressure change. I also don't think a trained air crew would mix up terms, an oscillation would be just that and a pressure change would be called a pressure change or bump. I think where things went wrong was during the testing. For some reason we were not to re-create oscillations only the pressure bump. At this point the terms must have been combined and believed to be one and the same. As to my post on this board, PM's and phone conversations. I have publicly told all of you that I am FBI agent Larry Carr eventhough I use the pseudonym "ckret." Every post, every PM and every phone conversation I must represent as if I am speaking to the public, keenly aware of who and what I represent. Therefore, I can assure you all that I would never write or say anything that would reflect negatively on me or the FBI. You may not agree with me, but I would never treat anyone with disrespect in any form of communication. Now lets get back to solving one the greatest "who-done-it's" in American history.

No list and I can't imagine one is readily available today. Attached is a page from the teletype log.

I thought that as well, because it is a teletype and it is different from the company radio log. But as i was re-reading the teletype there is a difference in the responses and transmissions. In other words it is easy to see that the person transmitting/receiving for "305" is not the same as the person transmitting/receiving for mpls fltops. I'll scan a few pages and post it so we can solve this mystery. Finally, something about the Cooper case we can solve. Unfortunately it means nothing but perhaps its a first step.

DB Cooper is on the back burner for me as well, and certainly not on anyones radar for the FBI so I understand. However, (and this may not matter either) if the site is looking for hits to increase ad revenue it might be a way to draw folks in and of course from my own selfish needs may draw that person in that could have part of the answer I am looking for.

The chutes were discussed several pages ago. It seems as if it would be very helpful if dropzone could make DB Cooper it's own forum, then break all the post into separate threads ie, the jump, the money, the sketch and so on. I think eventually this could be very good for hits on this site and it would help to keep moving things forward. Any thoughts, who is in charge here? Anyone have pull with that person.

I have a question, when military aircraft are doing a drop either of people or cargo how is the craft configured, airspeed, flaps and such?

I am a 100% sure that the log is titled "Ground Radio Teletype Log." I am also 100% sure it is a teletype log. The transmissions are first person account of real time information which could have only been typed by the flight crew. As to being 100% sure the aircraft had the equipment onboard, don't know. I would say from what I have yes, but I wasn't there so I'll go 99%.

Nothing I found yet states Cooper used the words interphone.

I have a copy of the radio teletype transmissions from 11/24/1971 from NWA flight 305 to NWA flight operations in Minneapolis. I also have a hand written log of all the conversation from NWA flight 305 to NWA flight operations via phone patch which was created by NWA flight operations in Minneapolis. Apparently they had both going that night.

They had taken the money home, not aware of the Cooper case, and laid it out in their kitchen to dry. In interviews they described the money as being found in three bundles with the rubber bands wrapped around the money. The bundles broke apart when they handled the money because the bands crumbled to the touch. The money was described to be in varying states of decay from almost whole to scrap. So, when the bundles arrived at the beach the bands were strong enough to keep the bundles together but however long they sat there decayed to the point of crumbling to the touch. Those in the know at the time stated no more than a year.

Because of the condition the money was found in it had to be all or nothing, either he lost the money bag in the jump with the money still tightly bound in it or he survived and hide the bag of money or he died with the money in the bag by his side. Two or three weeks before Cooper's jump a guy tried to bail from a plane (not a 727) but the crew took him out with an ax. Normally the NB6 is a 26' foot canopy. The reports state it was an NB6 with a 28' canopy. This could have been a mistake on the agents part when he wrote the report.

It would be pure speculation that Cooper had an altimeter, not saying he didn't, no one saw anything on his wrist or in his briefcase that would lead one to believe he had one. As far as changing facts, that is not a fact. I am looking at the totality of what we know from the investigation to date and trying to find a logical reason as to how some things don't add up. When the maps were completed in 1972 the money had not been found. if it had, I am sure the crew would have been re-interviewed along with the data to try to explain how the money got to where it was found. The map is an investigative tool calculated from several pieces of evidence. If one piece is slightly wrong it throws off the map, which could explain why nothing was found on the original search and the money was found where it was. Can you hear that sucking sound, listen closely, put your ear to the screen. Thats the sound of energy being sucked into a never ending void.

"Ckret, you cannot be serious about disregarding jump points that would suggest Cooper lived." I never posted anything to suggest this, I posted that if you look at the information surrounding the money, Cooper had to have jumped further south than what was originally believed. On the map the furthermost point south is at 8:12 PM, he must have jumped more around 8:15 PM but not after. The crew must have made a mistake in their reporting time of the incident. The crew knew they were not over Portland and we know, because of where the money was found, it had to have been further south than the 8:12 PM point on the map. That should reveal a new search area, just on the edge of the Washougal.

Since there is nothing that reasonably points to someone planting the money, we can rule out any jump point that could not put Cooper near a tributary. If Cooper jumped over or just south of Orchard he would have been blown north and east several miles. If the farthest south jump point shown on the map I posted is 8:12, then where would the plane be at 8:13, 8:14 and 8:15. Also don't forget you could factor in a flight path .5 mile east of the flight path line from Battleground to Salem.

A bit of new info, the concrete time of the jump was based on the crews communication with NWA flight operations. NWA flight operations was keeping a running log documenting each communication noting the time. I did a re-read of the NWA log, tower transmission and the flight crew interviews and discovered when the crew felt the pressure variance they were not on the phone with NWA. They called just after to report the incident. The person keeping the log must have not written the time he received the communication but the time the crew thought they felt the bump. Another clue to the time is the ground radio teletype log. It my understanding that the teletype will automatically log the time with the communication. The crew typed a message which was logged at 8:12 and mentioned oscillations not a bump. The crew referenced a call to Cooper at 8:05 PM when making a statement about the pressure change, stating the pressure bump occurred 5 to 10 minutes after this. They further stated that when they felt the pressure change they were not yet to Portland but definitely in the suburbs. In reviewing the flight path the plane flew directly over Battleground WA, turn and flew a straight line to Salem OR. If you look at the map I posted, 8:11 PM was the determined to be the jump point which is listed as point A. Point S is 8:10 PM and Point F is 8:12. The plot was laid out with a +-1 minute delay in reporting. From all of this and the location where the money was found, we need to extend the calulation to 8:13, 8:14 and 8:15. I am guessing this would put the jump location near Orchard WA. The winds for that location are as follows: wind direction wind speed height 225 degrees 20 knots 7,000 230 degrees 25 knots 5,000 235 degrees 20 knots 2,000 235 degrees 15 knots surface If you buy my theory that Cooper was a novice jumper then he most likely deployed very soon after leaving the aircraft. If he jumped over Orchard or just south and deployed just out of the aircraft, I believe this would put him in the Washougal Water Shed.

if cooper buried the money on the beach upon landing that is where it would have stayed undisturbed. In 1974 almost two feet of sand and clay were buried there. I am sure, if Cooper buried the money he would have put the bag at least a foot down most likely more. The geologist that worked the site stated that it would be of a certain impossibility that on its own the money could have broke through the clay deposites from the dredging and the dig showed no signs of disturbance in the clay layer.

bren, here's what the money tells; If Cooper lived he lived without his money. The money (from it's condition when found) had to have been sheltered from the elements. Because the money could not have been there before 1974 it rules out that Cooper landed near by, buried some cash and never came back. Because of its condition when found we know the earliest it could have been there in an unprotected state is late 78. There would be no logical reason for someone to come back and plant the money there 8 years after. It would not have cooled the investigation or thrown it off of a subject. No matter where the money is found the subject list would have stayed the same. Plus, at this point who ever Cooper is, he got away with it. The investigation was dying, why would someone fan the flames and $5,800 was a large sum in the late 70's and 80's, if you got away with it, you wouldn't give it up for no apparent reason. If the above is true then the money was blown off of Cooper when he jumped (which an accurate recreation may prove useful) or he died and the money detached from his decaying corps. The money then takes a big portion of the mystery out of the mystery, no beaches, no margaritas, no high living. It's either death or "damn, I'll never do that again!!!" Safe, glad your back, thought I lost you for a moment.

What did I post that leads you to believe the reported data is unreliable, there may be some small adjustments the totality of the investigation but the flight data and radar are correct. I will publish the logs that were kept real time on the 24th so you can see what was said and when it was said.

The flight path depicted on the map I posted has an error of +-.5 miles, which is accounted for on the map. I'll try to post it with higher resolution but i am limited because of this site. When you look at the money and how it was found I don't take a bleak look, the answer is there and finding the money is the key to unlock the door to the answer. As I posted, there are very few probable ways the money got there in it's condition. It got there after 74 and was protected to some extent until discovery in 80. There is nothing that would point to it being placed there by someone (although it can be considered as an alternative once the most probable has been explored). Armed with new facts we can adjust, correct or pull into sharper focus what was once thought to be fact. the money is the area of the case that has been least investigated and should be the focus because it may lead to bones, which lead to DNA, which lead to race and ethnic profile, which leads to familial confirmation and resolution (wouldn't that be something).