aubsmell

Not to come in too much on the defensive, but the cable housings that we use are the same ones used by RWS, Sunpath, Wings, almost every one, the only one I can think of who uses different ends is Mirage, they use a higher quality metel die cast end fitting. However I've never heard of any safety related issues with the AMP 40-50's that everyone else, including Aerodyne uses. Now I'll butt right back out.....so that this can be objective. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

I keep on postin and postin, I really didn't intend for this thread to be...Hey everybody listen to Aubrey, but I'm trying to reply to all or most of these posts to let each person that posts know that I'm really listening and it's just my way of respecting what you have to say....because I know that when I tell somebody something, especially when they asked for the imput as I have, the thing I hate most is to feel as if I've been dismissed. not saying that this would be impossible, but just expensive, and it would have to be paid for with the profit in canopies, which as I've said there just isn't that much of. You could expect to pay at least 1.5-1.8 tiimes what you pay now retail for the canopies. Just think of the numbers you'd be dealing with. Lets use median numbers say 4000 sport canopies (the big companies sell more the small companies sell less) per year. 1000 of those are reserves, that leaves 3k say 1500 of those are bought from stock patterns off the shelf that leaves us with 1500 custome orders spread over the year. So you'd need at least 5-700 demo canopies (all makes and models shapes and sizes) and staff to keep them in repair, ship them out and process them in. It could be done, but again somebody would have to pay for it and in the end that would be you. I totally hear you there, I'm assuming you are referring to the containers, some companies charge for embroidery, but I think that is pretty lame. As for putting the companies logo on the bottem of canopies, that is pretty expensive, I haven't really given a heck of a lot of thought to offering that. I think canopy specific artwork is a cool idea, that could be an option that people are charged for, but that is a little different. I was kind of waiting for someone to say this....I have thought a lot about this....and believe me I am totally guilty of defending safety with the TSO by line. Someone will say is this thing bla bla bla, and I'll say (to save myself a 4 hour conversation) well it has been certified under the strictest qualifications of the TSO 23d and the JTSO. And to be even more honest with you....I don't even know exactly what being TSO'd actually means! I know what I've been told, and I know parts and pieces, and you can damn sure bet that as soon as I finish typing this post I'm going to spend the rest of this beautiful afternoon sitting in the sun on my porch reading everything I can find out about it on line. (wireless internet is the bomb) When you say that something has been TSO'd remember the very first containers in our sport were TSO'd, would you jump (I hate to keep jumping on the Wonderhog) but would you run out and jump a wonder hog? (to be honest I would) but I think we can all agree that safety has come a long way. You'd be suprised that a lot of the stuff we buy and jump today is being manufactured under very old TSO's and the products don't even resemble the ones that were origionally TSO'd. And as I've learned, it doesn't take much to make a chang on an item without having to have it recertified. Don't think for a second I'm inditing other companies with these comments either, because I'm sure we will be useing these loopholes to the best of our ability a few years down the road when the voice of the people is finally heard and we add that optional legstrap change purse. If you do something cosmetic and you do these little changes one at a time and you send the engineering drawings in with a letter, I think every 6 months or so, you're all good. So I look very lightly on the tso defense for my own personal safety. I think the stuff out there is safe, but mostly because of people like Bill Booth, who have set the bar so high that anybody with 1/8 of a brain wouldn't even concider bringing anything to the market that wasn't rock solid.....and even still there will always be those chinks in the armor. If you look at the rig building industry it is very incestuous. I hope someone else out there can add some in to this for me and please correct me if I'm wrong....I'm pieceing this togeather from years of conversation I've been involved in and evesdroped on. It's like frickin 6 degrees of seperation. People who have worked for Bill Booth the grand Grand Pooba- Jeff Johnson (designs mirage) Kelly Ferrington (deigns Infinity) People who worked for Kelly Ferrington- Dave Singer (cad designer for Sunpath) I'm pretty sure Henery who owns wings had something to do with the first Javelin, or something. I'm sure someone out there will straighten me out. For our Icon we hired two Engineers Michele Auvery (designed the Atom) Dom Hayhurst (he designed the Nero, I think that was the name of it) either way, both had designed something before. Does any one else know the where this stuff came from...no wonder why it all sort of looks the same. Every where I go with the Icon people say hey that looks just like a______ fill in the blank because almost every container has been named (except the wonderhog) Damn I run on for hours, but either way, back to my point....I question the catagorical answer "it's tso'd" But then again for the most part I have a healthy fear of all the stuff I jump out of an airplane wearing, but I agree with you, I believe in the safety of the stuff if it is in good shape and it is relitivly new. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Thanks for 3 cents JP. 1) This is kind of the plan with the ASIP, very spelled out, keeps it clean on both sides. Meaning if my good friend sends over 4 referrals I still won't give him gear, and on the converse if Bubba (who happend to impregnate my girlfriend) sends over 18 referrals, I can't say "sorry dude you were just thisssss close. Try agian next year." 2) I like the idea of that, but instead of refunding the money, in the case of athlets, maybe some form of credit or just better level of sponsorship in the future. I think that is the way a lot of companies do it at present. It the case of the way we are handeling things I'm interested to see how it plays out once (when and if) we start handeling athlets. I think it will almost inevitably happen. And I'm sure there is going to be some crossover, like an ASI who starts, or joins a team and since he or she already has a relationship with us will persue a different type of competition arrangement. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Once again please feel free to email me for application requests.. a.easterlin@aerodyne-int.com "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

that is the last time I write a really long post when I'm this tired, my grammar, spelling and basic hold on the english language is highly suspect at the moment.....Kolla I know you are reading....keep it shut.... Aubrey "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

No Rich your not hijacking, but providing some great feedback, this whole dropzone.com thing is pretty fun, however Ive been in my office until 10pm every night this week (accept jumping yesterday) because my productivity is shit with all this typing. I actually agree that it does take away some objectivity, however I will argue a few points. In the position I'm in I want to achieve my moral goals which are actually based on stewardship, you can understand that as a Marine, if feels good to contribute selflessly, and work in a service you feel is something worth your dedication and every effort. It is very difficult to do that in the business setting, I worked as an investement banker before and found it wholey without a soul, so I feel in the business of skydiving I have found a happy medium. However, I won't try to hide the fact that this company hired me to sell parachutes and parachute containers to skydivers, by any means necessary. The odd catch is these aren't just nameless faceless customers, my customers are my friends, and people I find myself in a social setting with on a constant basis and to whom I'm often held accountable. So the question of coming up with a program like the ASIP that for all intents and purposes buys the objectivity of the instructor and in that light puts the student in perril of being force fed aerodyne gear at the hands of his or her instructor is a valid point. However I believe that there are many natural checks in the program, that take some of the edge off of that effect. -because it is not a dropzone sponsorship there is not any sort of pressure to be a part of it, instructors have to apply and be accepted, in essence they have to whole hartedly seek the agreement. where sometimes when a dropzone has a sponsorship agreement with a company or a staff gear program, the instructor sometimes gets the line, we we here at dropzone A jump container Z and if you want the sponsorship deal you'll jump container Z. Or you can jump your stuff, but we'd reall you rather have you jump staff stuff for uniformity. With Aerodyne's program, it is a sponsorship of the individual, we'll build the system for them in custom colors, if their dz wants them to remain uniform, I would have no problem building it to match. Say you are one of the people that I'm putting into the system right now, that really has no experiece with the system, and they get it and don't think it is the bees knees....which is bound to happen, you can't please everyone. They can just choose not to push the product, and in a year when the agreement is up, they can just sell it and they got a fat custom rig for an insanely low price and will proably make money on the system, or at least break even. No loose for yous. In my opinion, no matter what you have, weather you paid for it or got it for free, if you are happy with it or indifferent to it, if someone asks you for your opinion the average human will not be objective...most will talk up what they are using to validate their decision for purchasing or accepting that product. Usually to make themselves feel better. I drive a Jetta, I would rather have a Ferrari, however I could afford a jetta, it is a nice car, I would highly reccomend it to any one who was looking for a 4 door sedan, regardless of their goals. It is a good car. I paid exactly what the dealership would accept for it from me. Our sponsored instructors are going to have a very interactive relationship with Aerodyne. and it starts with marking them. I just got the proof back for our instructor patches. Not just a generic aerodyne patch (we'll have those too) but a patch that has that Aerodyne Sponsored Instructor logo and the words "Aerodyne Sponsored Instructor" under it, it is actually a really cool design. So when Sam Jumpinbean gets his A license he won't have any illusion that this guy telling him why the Pilot is the perfect canopy for him is just a satisfied customer. Although I hope and believe that the instructors will be satisfied customers too, but it will be clear that he has an affiliation with the company. We are also getting some fat tshirts made that will be available only to instructors in the program. Also, back to using my position at this company to make the sport better. We all know that there are some instructors out there that don't give out the best, most up to date information. This program is an opportunity for Aerodyne do really deciminate high quality information and encourage instructors to know the products they jump, and to know the products they are representing to people, not just students. And if we have to pay them gear to encuourage them to lear so be it. We all have our motivations, if the program helps one instructor gain access to information that helps one student or experienced jumper make a safer more informed decision than it will be worth it. Not saying that I think there as anything wrong with the staff equipment deals....again sales at it's finest, but without much follow up. and if some dropzone came up to me and said, "I want work a staff deal for all my instructors, packers, riggers, manafest people....I want this percent I can get it from joe schmoe...here is my credit card...and jimmy's and johns" don't think for one second I would sell them 5-6-15 containers or systems (I'd try to add one of my distributors somehow) but I'd do it, and I wouldn't say no no no we only do ASIP, I would try to encourage that for the people who would benefit from it, but again you have to meet morals with business goals. I think Kelly does an outstanding business and far be it from me to question his methods. I think if I knew you were a sponsored athlete for me and weren't recommending my gear I'd want an explination. That being said. Kelly more or less has "sponsored" me. My rig was burned up in the fire. He replaced it for free. While I had already made my determination for a new infinity, I do feel like I owe Kelly some advertising and good word. He's earned it from me and will continue to get it. Great product, great customer service, great options, great price! Thanks again Kelly I'll always be in your debt for what you did. Quote Kelly is the man...I'd buy a rig from him anyday....have you ridden in his car....if he can make a vw go that fast you know his gear is good.... oh, and Rich thanks for the personal email. Good idea send me your phone number.... "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

This is a good post, I'll be happy to give you my feelings. and I may be able to say a manufacturers perspecitve, and a responsible business persons perspecitve. The first thing I do before I post to someones reply is look at their profile, to see if I can glean any info usefull to me in my posting....experience equipment that sort fo thing. After reading this the first thing I noticed is that you jump 2 PD canopies contained in a Javelin....I would belive those are the two companies who very clearly sponsor the most people. I see this type of gear too and it totally bothers me. My first job at PD was in the parachute maintenance department (were people send their old busted stuff to get fixed) I was the PMD coordinator, so I was the liase between the repair people and the customer. You would be frickin amazed by what people will jump....very ragged out stuff. Very I could tell you stories all day. But DZO's should be more responsible. One thing that PD does with tandem mains is that every one that comes in for reline or a patch or someting, is they get a MANDATORY tear test, I've called DZO's to tell them their canopies failed, FAILED and they still want them back to patch and jump! (a tear test is 25lbs of pull force applied to the skin of the canopy, really not very much pressure) I had one guy that ownd a dz freak out on me because we did the test, I'm happy to say he no longer owns a DZ (not because of anything I did but shit will allways catch up with you) It is not the responsibility of Manufacturers to babysit business owners. Ive seen tiny little cessna dropzones with impeckable equipment. Because they have a plan. Manufacturers already (mostely) see to it that they are paying attention to the needs of businesses. For instance pricing. The MSRP's for student equipment are already lower than sport. I will use my companies MSRP's for reference, go to any manufacturer's website and look at the differences. our Sport Mains, $1699 and $1599 all sizes our student main (the Solo) $1599 for the 230,250, and 270. No raise in price, take in to concideration the raise in raw material costs and sewing time to build a 270 square foot canopy vs. a 120? (zp material is about $8 a square yard) The Smart reserve $899 sport sizes (99-210) same price for the big daddy 250, once again all that much more laundry, fabric, tape, lines, sewing. The big daddy is the rig. for US, and again most manufacturers, our Icon sport is $1699 and our student is only $1499 still all the options, plus more sewing for adjustible harnesses and all the little things that go along with student specific rigs. So I think manufacturers do go out of their way, but accepting lower profit margins, in an already low margin business. And as you know almost all manufacturers sell direct to dz's because in most cases dz's are distributors for them, or are buying large orders. And you don't even need to be huge or buy them all at once. If you come to a manufacturer, and say I plan to replace all my student gear (10 or 80) and I only need 3 now and I plan on doing the replacement over a 2 year period I bet you are at least going get wholesalee pricing. I'm working on a little different plan for our student gear, since we have a smaller distributor network, but that is super secret stuff at the moment. As for the plan. The way I've seen it work is you as a DZO need to have a schedule, for both replacement and repair. You can't have all your tandems out for reline at once but you know on average they need to be relined once a year, so build a timechart of when you can be wihout what. You know that shit needs to be replaced periodically too. From each AFF Jump which has some ammount of profit, you should set up an account for each piece of equipment. Student system 1. Each time student system 1 is used in a jump you take $5 and put $4 in an account for replacement and $1 in the repair account. In 1000 jumps on that specific system you can replace it with a brand new system from your account, and you will have had a grand for relines and that sort of thing. And that isn't even factoring in what you can sell the old system for when you do get a new one. A starting dz will be better served with a 3 year old system with only 1000 jumps on it than some of the junk out there. Either way, it can be done. How some DZO's squander their profits on new bling bling rims for their 64 impalas is not the responsibility of the companies that build them the products that facilitate their livelyhood. You don't see Airplane companies discounting airplanes or fule....I think by provideing lower priced items, and usually offering wholesale options for DZ's as a true sign that these companies are fully in support of providing these businesses with a better shot at survivability. I've been to a lot of dz's probibly 150 all over the world, and I've seen some of the small ones that you know don't make that much gross, have a very good system and be very well run, and i've seen some big ones that are crankin not put a lot of the profit back into the business. I have a great Idea for a tandem sales system but I'm too lazy to type it......you'll see it when our eventual system is TSO'd "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Jaye, My beautiful rig winning inspiration (I still can't believe you won that). We now have an email address: Ideas@aerodyne-int.com So people can send in their wacky zaney ideas...I'm not being greedy with this, if you are a manufacturer and reading this....I think it would be a really good idea to have a space available for unsolicited input like this. I'll see if I can't get a little blurb added to our website about this too.... check our site next week on or around the 16-17 there is going to be some bomb new stuff on there....hopefully including the Idea dealy.... I'm going to have all the sales, marketing, and engineering guys have the password to this account and devide the entries into idea specific folders...like engineering, rigging, promo, flying, packing..etc. so we all can look through and check stuff out. Thanks Jaye "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

The college subject is close to my heart, so this is more me than Aerodyne speaking....a preemptive sorry for breaking your balls... Do a little research. The average lifespan of a skydiver (by lifespan I mean longevity in the sport) is around 7 years, or less. I'm sure USPA coud give you exact numbers, for a price. It dosen't matter weather they start at 15 or 50. I feel that if guys with 131 jumps tasted the teet of sponsorship....they'd suck for life. Once you get something for free or heavily discounted, it is hard to go back to retail. College students are influenced by everything. I know I was one for 7 years. When you sponsor someone you want them to bring something dramatic to the table. And in turn you want to be able to help them dramatically. To quote the beastie boys again...beer drinkin, breath stinkin, sniffin glue...that is the state of a lot of college students. Not a bad thing, like I said I did it, but I don't want to sponsorthem just because they belong to a club. And college students are broke, I worked three jobs and was in the army when I was in college...I distinctly remember thinking "well I'd like to make two jumps ths weekend, but if I spend that other $18 I can't go out all week" I don't think companies should provide sponsorship as a form of welfare. The vast majority of college students are quitters...look at the grand scheme of things. less than 50% off people who start college actually finish. Most of the college students who do go jump do 1 tandem. Or start AFF and don't finish it. My first job in skydiving was at Skydive Tallahassee while I was in school at Florida State University. I ran the club there for a year, and was involved in it for years. So I'm very familiar with college clubs and college teams. I don't think it is in the best interest of companies to sponsor college teams. If I was in a college club and on a college compition team, here is what I'd do. I would seek monitary sponsorship from local businesses, alumni associations, if you are in a fraternity, from the fraternity alumni associations. When you go to your student clubs organization every semester for money, bilit the team as a seperate entity, apart from the club, try to get money for TEAM training, for TEAM equipment. Then Solicite the manufactruers for that BULK discount, or better yet the smart guy would ask the manufactuer to help them work with one of their distributors to get the best discounts for all your shit, helmets, altis, suits all of it. like their sub distributor price for everything for that team. Contact me personally dude, I can tell you all kinds of stuff I did at the FSU club to garner stuff from the school, dz's manufacturers, that way you are not reinventing the wheel. There is power in numbers and that is what you have as a club, but sponsorship....not the right approach. One point of advise from a working college graduate to a college student. If you thank life is going to hand you anything....you are wrong. If you think that a diploma will get you anything more than just a very base consideration.....prepare yourself to get knocked a little harder in the school of hard knocks. Let me peel away from knocking on you for a second. And tell you what I do for college clubs. I treat treat them like a dropzone, if it is purchased by the club and not an individual. Your college club can buy a complete system, or systems from me, to be used communally by club members at a price we will negotiate a discount based on the number of systems requested. This sale will go through an aerodyne distributor. I have a very special interest in helping clubs out, since I got my start sport skydiving in one. Also contact me to help out with your boogies I love to support them. I recently attended the University of Florida boogie in Williston, and also the Embry Riddle Aeronautical University boogie in Deland. What I like to see is college clubs being proactive in the sport, like using that young motivated man power to put on a good boogie, or do a fund raiser or jumpathon for cancer, get it in your school paper, you local news paper. It's up to you edumacated people to make our sport look good. Make a float in your schools homecoming parade. Get your pro license and jump into a football game. Respect your elders like Chucky Blue, He was jumpin out of airplanes and earned his Green Beret before you were born. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

after a small amount of investigation (something I should have known off hand) our standard bridal is 117.32 inches long (2980mm) perfect for our little wingsuit passion. Mirage eh, on the sponsorship deal from Justin, he was rubbing it in that he got some Africans. You should be a good sponsored guy for him and send him daily hate mail. (he is my best friend, we were roomates for years and started skydiving together) "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Sorry I never sent you an email back about that idea. I did forward it on to our design guys, right now we are concidering the higher/lower thing and maybe offering an option with the articulated chest. like for women "do you want it above, below?" kind of thing, but you were talking about an X type configuration, which to me sounds like you would be putting your Tits (notice how that is capitalized, proper noun) in boobie prison. which in some way, on some women I would like to see, but ther is the question of comfort there. My point in replying to this post, is that I really liked getting your idea, and just because I didn't get back to you, don't think it didn't go anywhere. This has stimulated me to contact our web guy, what I want to do is set up an account Ideas@aerodyne-int.com, again just kicking around ideas. So that people have a place to send their ideas, because a smart company neeeeeeds to listen to thier customers. I would be willing to bet that 80% of the people out there are smarter than me....I have a Criminoology degree. It is all of our sport, we should progress to make it, better, cheaper, safer all that stuff. I bet I go to the Bushman (my boss) with 50 ideas a week that he tells me to go get bent. But it is the 51st that counts, so you never know the more suggestions the better. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

You have some really great ideas, thanks. This is true, and I've thought about it a good bit. I get at least three sponsorship requests a week from people who have never even seen our stuff with their own eyes. I try to answer them all, so far all negative, but the first thing I think is this guy doesn't care what he get as long as he gets it for free. That bothers me. And I'll almost never go for it. On the flip, I had a guy demo and buy a complete system from me in January, then he heard about the ASIP and said "man I'd love to be part of that" So of course I was waiting for him to ask if he could get a refund and take part in the program, but he just said "Do I have to buy another one at 50% to be part of the program?" Of course I told him no, he is an instructor and I'd love to have him, and that makes me want to give him more stuff, I gave him a wind blade for his dropzone. I don't think it would work to charge them first, you do sponsor teams, usually to help them out, like I said to get your stuff out there but also, so that they can have more money to train, it is an expensive sport and if you are a serious competitor, it can be a huge financial burden, I mean think when you go to the drop zone and make 10 jumps in a weekend that is $200 these guys are sometimes trying to make 1500 a year and wind tunnel, even working deals with the dz, wind tunnel, coaching it is still hard to scrape by, unless you are the extreem top of the top. With our program for instructors, at least it is trackable, after a year we'll see did you refer anyone, did you answer my emails, did you send any pictures, did you give back, NO, well no more free soup for you....you did, well here is you deliciious free soup. Now coming up with a system equivalent for atheletes is the trick. I don't think it can be the same, but there has to be some accountability. I've had the argument with some sponsored guys (he's probably reading this too) he says, if tiger woods is sponsored he automatically gets the clubs free, that is the given, they what. Well I just saw a show when tiger woods wears a new piece of clothing on a televised weekend event, Nike sells 40 million worth of that article within one month following. We give away a full system 4k how many people go and buy one just because they see that guy wearing it? Maybe 10 in a year, so we make total profit somewhere around 10k, the margins in this sport are suprisingly low. That is why PD, the biggest company in the business, has it's stately corporate offices in a windowless corrogated metel building, and it's owner drives a toyota. We are not going to make a gozillian dollers here, not in the sport world. I think to build sponsorship loyalty is a good thing, but human nature is to progress, and if someone feels they are progressing from brand x to brand y. It may be the best thing for both. It frees up brand x to find someone else who may be more excited about their stuff, rather than having someone who is still there just because they have always been. This is a fucking rad idea, don't be supprised if you see this one in action. (however it is expensive to do those bottom skin designs, so no promises) I guess I like being a fly in the onitment sometimes. but I like the idea, you put your logo on sponsored guys, I put mine on students. Who is looking after who. Idea, like you said, it's been done. I like the R&D spin, it has made me consider thinking of other motivations to get old canopies back, but not the trade in. The big problem with this is then I become a retailer, or I'm selling directly, If I do this I'll be snaking business from my distributors. I want them to make money, so they can better service their customers, as I've said before. and the competitor product trade in, that is when that car cover you mentioned, suddenly becomes an object of barter. This is a good idea, I'm going to ask Jari about the details of how he has this set up. We do have something similar. We have a rebate program for our distributors, sort of like a forced savings account with us, we pay it out twice a year, and of course prior to paying them money, I say would't you like some nice demo producet at 50%, usually they tell me to get bent, it's Christmas time. Sometimes it works. As our products gain more popularity, I think it will work better. You sound like a smart muther, way better grammer and spelling than me. Thanks for the input, I do really appriciate it. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Hi Jim, You have some good points here. That is a way cool idea, and if we ever get some ideas like this from our ASIP guys or if we sponsor any Athlets I'll snake this idea maybe I'll call it the .........team mod the RevJim price $0 That is a good way to look at it clandestin sponsorship: "boy deland sure has a ton of velocities flying around, I think I'm going to buy one too, just like these guys did" I could see that working. I know in high school I really wanted Ugg boots because I saw them everywhere, now looking back those people had to be given those boots as ugly as they were, I'm glad I didn't spend the money. However I think that one of the major reasons that manufacturers put those big logos on, well one is just to get the name out there, and two for magazine photos, getting a photo in the mag of your hotshot under his free canopy is great "free" advertising, considering that to run an add cost a more than a grand plus add production fees. I agree with you here, but you'll see in my posts that are going to dance around this thread, some of the things are really expensive in the production of these items, things you have to factor in, design (that's staff guys with big fat educations), testing (that's a lot of jump tickets) actual production a lot of it can't be automated it takes real people sewing, then the promotion of the products. However, as you can see with our equpment our prices are a little lower mainly because we manufacture off shore. Which can bring up a million problems and questions. PD builds some of their canopies off shore too, I'll be interested to see where they go in the next few years. On the plus side of our facility we have been building parachutes in that factory for close to 30 years, so they've work out a lot of the kinks. I'm going to try not to speak to much about Aerodyne in my posts, just to keep it generic. If anyone has any questions about what we do or how we do it feel free to contact me personally. I agree with this too, most skydivers have owned stuff from a lot of companies. I've owned PD, Icarus (sort of) Precision, Dolphin, Javelin, Mirage and now Aerodyne. I'm sure I could tell you one good thing and one bad thing about all of them, but I believe that each company was doing their best. No one sets out to do something half ass, or hurt people. I agree that market domination is not a good thing, competition breads mental stimulation which produces smarter, better, more efficent business. Also product developement. I do have high hopes for the company that employees me, but I wouldn't cry a single tear if someone invented the Levetron 2000 tomorrow and made parachutes containers completely obsolete ever again, I'd buy a Levetron and see if the company needed a sales rep. Change is good and revolution is better. Until then I think it should be the goal of every company to try to do the absolute best it can, it is the American way. (not to insinuate that you should do that at the expense of the individual) This is great and inspired though from me. I'm going to stick to the market to newbies thing instead of the make cheaper more line.... When I first started working for a manufacturer, I had a conversation about the market, market size, and market share of the company I was with (PD at the time), this conversation was with the Vice President of Channel Sales for the Intel Corporation. I explained, it's a parachute company, not focused on the military, it is really a niche market about 100,000 world wide give or take, here in the US we have about 70% of the market, abroad probibly a little less. I askes, do you have any ideas for me, how can I gain more market, she was blown away. She said something that stuck with me though. She said, you don't need more market share, you need to focus your marketing on making more customers. We need to create the market. you need to create a feeder system. College baseball teams have the little league...were do we go to get our future skydivers. For manufacturers where do we go toget our future customers? Here is another business idea. Create a company that sells skydiving. Not parachutes, not containers, not lift tickets, not suits and goggles. But the concept. Build a solid business plan: you go to town A, make a deal with DZ A (probibly not a dz in that town or you'll eat all their future tandem customers) go there and paper the town like a circus is coming, create some P.T. Barnum type hoopla 1/2 price skydives june 14 in town A, Wind tunnel on sight, (a roming wind tunnel that visits high schools 1 month before graduation, colleges, military bases, give out cupons for half price tanems at the nearest skydiving center) Go to the manufacturers get funding for the Tour, not to demo products but to mold people into skydivers. Only so many people are going to look in the phone book after making that drunk promise to go do a skydive, and actually go. I really think that wouldn't be a bad idea, all the companies bonding together to concieve a plan to go out there and make skydivers. It could work! It would be hard, but check out some stuff out there, I like the way we are going one price for all the popular options, takes a lot of the guess work out, we know you want articulation, we know you want stainless steel, we are less than some, more than some, but we are nearly complete, I'm not just talking about the Aerodyne stuff, keep your eyes open, some of the other guys are quite competitive too. thanks for talking to me "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Let me first start this by saying I want to comment on some of your points, some for expanded conversation, if I take a defensive standpoint it is not me defending Aerodyne or our practices, am intending to play devils advocate and inspire thought. Contrary, if I take an offensive standpoint, again I'm not trying to offend, just looking to expand ideas. Sometimes some of the statements are great, but I may search for some more meat, such as how to realistically achieve these goals or put some of these programs into effect. By being responsive to their wants and needs. Things like offering wingsuit mods on containers, having demo equipment available to all jumpers (not just those at boogies or big dz's) and constantly working to improve your products. That is true, I believe all the companies, should persue the cool and grovies, otherwise we will become stagnant, nobody wants the wonder hog even though I'm sure it still has a TSO, people want the V3M. As for the winsuit mod, I have an email in to our head engineer (Dominic Hayhurst) to add that to their projects list, they may already working on it, as I haven't herd back from him yet. This is a problem that plagues me, and all canopy manufacturers. And I really hope to hear some ideas on this from you guys, and I'll list some of my ideas that are not in effect and try to state some of the ones that are in effect. I'll also try to list some of the limitations, and why companies don't have a higher percentage of demo canopies. Fly before you buy, what a great concept and I wouldn't even concider buying a canopy without jumping it first, some people will (and to be honest Aerodyne needs those people at this stage in the companies developement). But it is not as simple as test driving a car. When you go test drive a car if you like it you buy THAT car, if you don't and some one else drives it after you and like it the buy it as NEW, and it is legal to call it new because it has never been titled. It's not the same with parachutes, if someone jumps it, even once, it is used and it is labeled a used demo (which makes people automatically think it has been ragged out) even if you go to sell a canopy that has been jumped three times, people say will you sell this demo, and even if you will they want x percent off. If you go ahead and sell it to them well, you have a little money in the till, but that is one more canopy you sold and your distributor didn't. I think that PD has the best demo system, you may or may not know this but they actually have four demo systems. Each of which I have worked with at some level, and hope to have garnered the strenghts and weaknesses of each. 1. They have a full time employee who handles demos (Anabel, used to be Kolla) who takes demo requests, mails demos out to individuals, tracks them logs them in, scheduals maintenance and replacement, somewhat manages the person who inspects them upon their return, all that goes along with thse demos. There aer about +-300 demos in this program. -Positives of this program, there are a lot of demos available, a lot go out and get jumped. -negatives, it is very expensive, the cost of manufacturing for a canopy could be anywhere from 40-60% of the msrp, depending on the way you look at it, at the very least there are the raw material costs and shop time to build them lets work with with $800 cost for the canopy x300 thats $240,000 worth of canopies, and remember each time your are building a demo canopy, your not building a canopy that isn't for sale, an ordered one or stock one isn't being built. Plus the salery or time of the human managing the system and the time of the shippers shipping, recievers recieving and inspectors inspecting all for only $30 including that includes shipping. Demo type 2. the Demo Center concept. (which is actually two types American distributors that have demos, and the true European Demo Centers) these are like this: In the US distributors buy substantially discounted canopies 40-50% off (sometimes but rarely they get them for free) and agree not to sell them for a determined ammount of time. People can go to the store and demo them or rent them. In Europe they have stratigically placed demo centers (usually dealers) who host a demo fleet, usually one of each size in each model and manage them, let them out there sometimes mail them. -positives of this program, cuts out haveing to employ somone to manage them, you have demos that are geographically accessible for a motivated potential customer to get their hands on, one way or another. Not hugely expensive usually the most popular canopys at a center (20-30) -negatives, they may end up sitting there not getting jumped, you have no direct control as a company, Joe Schmo wants a FXlocity 31 you are not there to say no. The person in charge of telling the customer about the canopy may not know the first thing about them, what market their intended for, they may have never even jumped them. "oh your an aspiring camera flyer, you want a soft opening canopy like the Sabre 1" Could spell bad news. "no I've never actually jumped, but I'm working my way through taxidermy school, I want to learn to stuff beavers" The 4th method employed (remember the last one was two) is the Tour, it can work two ways the company sends people out to tour with demos, or gives canopies or containers to the opposite company to use with their products on tour (PD gives canopies to Sunpath, RWS gives containers to PD any combonation) -Positives, it becomes an event it is something out of the ordinary at the DZ the reps are usually fairly heads up about the products, sometimes they give siminars or product specific classes. Everything is available to try usually. It usually generates real sales for the local distributor, is a draw to the event in the eyes of the DZ, sometimes the Manufacturer sends Sponsored people to organize jumps, that sort of thing. -Negatives it is WAY expensive, The canopies are nominal usually 40-50 canopies, the parts and pieces are expensive though, Dbags $50, Risers $100, P/C $100, Carry bag $25...Per Canopy so the $800 demo becomes $1075. So the tour reps are hauling around like $100K worth of stuff with all the rigs and stuff. Then the real costs. Airline tickets, hotels, car rental, shipping of equipment, or Buying/Renting an RV. Employing someone to manage the Tour (who usually bitches constantly about being overworked and underpaid, who will work every weekend and holiday and day during the week too, loosing girlfriends and alianating family...oh that is just me) Either way very expensive. It is such a huge catch 22, we want these things available to us. As I said earlier I won't buy a canopy without jumping it, but I look at a canopy and say man that is just bunch of nylon and rope why is it two freeking grand. It can't be worth more than a few hundred bucks to build (and we haven't even gone into test jumpers, staff engineers, R&D, TSO's many expensive things) So lets explore options and limitations, and try to come up with some ideas to make demos more readily available, at least for a company starting out. I'd like to state I think PD is doing an excellent job and should roll with what they have. However maybe we can even come up with some better ideas. Also, this is a focus on a manufacturers perspective, but how can we pull the Distributors and DZ's down into this one? Is it their responsibility to have demos of equipment there. Obviously a gear distributor would benefit from haveing demo/rental gear on site, Wouldn't you say it would be great if a DZ had one of each different types of systems there for it's customers to rent and to try, not just what they sell, the customer's interest first. Again, I'll let you know, Aerodyne will sell any of our distributors demo gear for 50% off as long as they don't turn around and sell it, for one year. You'd think it makes sense every distributor would have one of every size so people can try it, they keep it for a year and then sell it for the price you paid for it, makes sense right? But it doesn't happen because there isn't a ton of money in this sport and even having only 1 complete system at the demo price $2000+ Cypress means you have a lot of cash hanging in breeze. So concider the idea (and some manufacturers do this) sell dropzones Rental/Demo gear for a substantially discounted price say 50% so all dropzones have rentals gear, Say and Infinity Icarus combo, say they buy 10 so , if you go to a dropzone where you know they have this perticular combo you can try it, which is good for the gear manufacturs, good for the dz they get a rental fee. What are the Negatives, well if that dz has a 1 year do not sell, then after the end of that year they sell it all, the distributors then will miss out on new sales, because the market is saturated with that specific product, i.e. Infinities. The local distributor doesn't sell any more containers for a while, because you get really cheap 1 year old Infinities, The infinitiy distributors local or national maybe miss new sales because the dz puts them on line or whatever. Then if the people who buy these products have problems they have little recourse and go back directly to the manufacturers, who then have to employ more customer service people or take the time away from building new stuff (production time issues) to fix small problems that can often be fixed by a good distributor. An idea to use this idea of the rental/demo rig owned by dz's, sell them at x ammount say 50% they can't sell for a year, in one year they have the option to keep it and continue to use it as a demo rental, or Sell it only to an authorized distributor of that product for 35% of the origionl retail value, keep it 18 months and they can keep it as a demo/rental or sell it to a distributor for 25% of the origional msrp, keep it for 30 months they can sell it to end users at any price they can get, fair market? Does that sound reasonable? How about some eager businessman wanted a parachute demo business. Say they proposed to a company like PD. I'll buy all their used crusty demo canopies for $300 apiece, and agree not to sell them, 300x300 you get them all for 90k, and manage them, charge $50 apiece for demos shipped out for a weekend, do 100 a week make $260K a year, set up your own tour, work in conjunction with a large distributor get a percentagte of every sale you send to them, say you do this with four products. That managed correctly with a decent initial investment could be a viable business. Set up a rigging service, to maintain the canopies, employ riggers and become a factory authorized service center for some companies. I'm sure all the manufacturers would rather focus on being designers and manufacturers, than sales and marketing companies. But now they are integrated out of necessity. I'd really like to hear some good ideas to get these demos out there? Realistic ones that take into account that parachutes are products consisting of parts and labor and have to be paid for with profit. I'm sure there is a good method. I certainly see your point here, which I can appriciate, and every manufacturer has different requirements for distributorship. We have a very small number of distributers (honestly I feel it is too big) and we have difficult standards to become a distributor. We all want to sell more stuff, but if we were going to go to a anyone who asks for distributorship gets it at the top level we wouldn't be able to maintain customer service standards. (again I want to reinforce that nothing I say here is directed at any one person or company, I see from your profile your are a gear distributor, I believe you uset to work for Square one, we've met) A question: Why shouldn't we go direct. We sell to our distributors at 30% + incentive, why not hire three more people as sales staff and go direct to the public at a price equal to 30% off of retail. I can give my answers, but I woud rather hear everyone elses. If you want to become a Toyota distributor, do you call up South East toyota, and say ahhh, I'd like to be able to buy your Toyotas at your whole sale cost, I'm just a little guy so I may only sell 10 this year, but I want the same rate as the Orlando Toyota (Meanwhile Orlando Toyota sells 700 a month and has the number one Toyota service center in the country, and don't even charge their customers for oil changes if they buy the car there and they get it washed for free on Saturdays) Or Mcdonalds, if you want to start a McDonalds franchise you have to have a net worth of $100,000,000 and it can't be inherited, you have to prove yourself as a business entitiy first, because they don't want you to fail, they don't want you to run out of milkshake mix because you didn't realize that you have to order more in June than you did in November. I get requestes every week, from people who send an email saying, "I'm thinking about starting a distributorship at x can I have distributor applicaiton" Have you ever run a business before...often "No" Are you a Rigger, or do you employ one..."No" Do you have a store where people can come and see different gear...a place with literature on all the brands that you sell....often "No" What kind of investment capital do yo have to insure that your business will be a success....."I''ll have what I make if you give me that for 35% off and I sell it for 25%. In my opinion the entire industry (oh I'm going to get killed for this) has set up some sort of a welfare state. And it is a function of greed from the manufacturers standpoint. (I'm really sitting here thinking I shouldn't post this but I want to have an honest open candid discussion) We are so eager to sell stuff any way we can we'll often let anyone sell it. I think this is a major disservice to the customers. I got my first rig from a combonation of dealers just like this, being the cheap skate I am, I got a Dolphin, RavenII, PD230 combo for a great deal, great deal my ass, I got taken, that shit should have been decomissioned years before, neither of the people selling me this knew shit about me or cared what my goals were, they just wanted to get rid of the stuff. By letting sooo many people sell your stuff, it is hard for any of them to make an actual living doing it. Instead of having 300 people making 10K a year I'd rather have 30 making 100k a year. Because you can't live on 10k and if you squeak by you don't have much left over to take care of the customers. I'd rather make it very competitive to become a distributor so that only get the finest business people selling your product corectly. Taking the best care of your customers. Now how do you do this and still gain market penetration in a sport like ours, so small 100,000 world wide and spread very thin, that is the hard part. Any thoughts? Okay, I'm going to have to take some more time to reflect on some of the other posts, this is only the first one. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Wow, I've seen some really great stuff in this thread, and I honestly want to reply to all of it, I have even gotten some private messages and emails here at the office with some great ideas and some heartfelt answers....and all of this is beneficial to me, I guess to us if I can implement some of these things. Also just the open discussion and some of your ideas has triggered ideas of my own that I otherwise could not have thought of I appriciate the time that goes in to these posts. It is also nice to see that a common theme in why people skydive is the people. That is why I work in skydiving for sure, its not th money or the three square meals of cat food a day I can afford to buy with it. And it is one of them major reasons why I jump and spend so much time at dropzones. We definitly have our share of intresting charachters in this little play called life, and I believe the MOST interesting ones find it necessary to hurl themsleves out of planes and fly around under a wad of fabric and string. But as I've found, one of the main reasons why I skydive, is the purity of the moment. The happiest people are the people that can appriciate the moment they live in right now. I know I'm guilty of living in the past and the future and worrying about what is coming up and what happend last week. And I won't say that skydiving FORCES you to live in the moment, but it is one of the few things that naturally guides you there. And in my experience, when I find myself completely in the now, I'm often alone (which is very nice) but with skydiving you can share these moments of absolute purety which in many ways can be very intiment, without actually having to share in the newances of someones life. Each jump being like a picture that you create with someone and can take with you, but can't really share with anyone else, even if you have great video, you can watch all the video in the world but you still didn't experience that jump. Well I tend to run on, but that is what endears me to the sport. Anyone who knows me knows I like to tell stories, and I'm extremely long winded, so here goes a graphic illustration of the above, if you don't like stories, skip on to the next post. This weekend I went back to Deland, my first weekend jumping there since I resigned from PD. And as soon as I got to the DZ I run in to John LeBlanc. And to be honest it was a little uncomfortable, as I hadn't spoken to him at all since I started with Aerodyne, mostly because we were never exactly buddies at PD, I worked at a department under his executive control and only actually had about 20 conversations with him over all, and I felt a bit of guilt, as you could imagine, over gaining as much knowledge as I possibly could at one company, and then moving to help start the sales and marketing for a company with a competitive product in the same market. My justification being, that I'd done as much as I could do there and felt that I personally could have a greater, more positive impact on the sport in a different positon somewhere else. This is something that Bushman offered me at Aerodyne. However I was doing some jumps with Yuca (Jari Kusma's brother) He was focusing on tracking to prepair for the first jump on a wing suit he was to take later this week. I had borrowed my friend Justin's Marige and Velocity because my Icon and Pilot were on my wing suit, after the jump while packing, John came over and asked me if i missed my Velocity, and I told him the truth, Damn Hell Shit Mutherfuckin strait I missed it, and I only hope we come up something in the future like it for the sake of Aerodyne Employee moral. Then of course I went on to tell him a little about our products and that I was really impressed with them all and that I'd be expecting a tri braced Prototype any day now (had to mess with him a little bit). Either way I invited him on a jump, to go up and track with Yuka and I, and he accepted. The jump turned out to be exactly what I explained above, we went out I was on my back John was very close (inches) above and to my right, and Yuka (less experience) styed rather floatie and off to my left, I tried to maintain a speed and fall rate that would keep Yuka involved in the dive and still push him, and went through our pre determined pattern, John and I like I said stayey really close and we had a great jump, I was thinking to my self during the jump, man I'd never seen John smile so much...When we got down one of the first things he said to me was that it was a lot of fun for him watching my big shit eating grin, I hadn't even realized I was smiling. That proved to me that our chosen sport transends a lot of things, the action and purity is much bigger than the self. I consider that a great jump, and I was happy to share it with John, now we go back to our corners and try to better the sport and come up with better ways to improve safety, sales, efficency and all that sort of stuf so that everyone benefits. I think that may be my favorite thing about the sport, it is beyond who you are or what you do...doctor to grave digger, or where or who you work for. Eitherway, I'm going to try to discuss some points in some of these posts, please keep telling me the pluses and negatives of what you think we are doing, not just Aerodyne, but manufacturers a lot of these post are directed at us (wich I do like) but I hope some of the other manufacturers read this thread and garner some ideas from the posts. Sorry for being so long winded, I'm southern at heart "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

I just sent an email to Dominic our head engineer down there, about the possibilities of the corner mod, at the present I don't believe it is available, but I'll try to get it added to the design projects list, as it is somethint I'm very interested in having. As for the 100 inch bridal, I added that into the email, and I'll send you a message as soon as I get a response, I don't feel like that will be a problem at all, talk to Dave as he can most likely get you one, I'm going to see if I could add that as an option to the order form (hopefully at no charge or a nominal charge) Aubrey "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

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tool, pinback, local H, the pixies, soundgarden, usually something driven....then I like Jack Johnson and G Love too...There are some cool local bands around Orlando too, one with a cool skydiving name....Big Sky...really good I they used to come through tallahassee a lot when I was in college... "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Well I could be opening up a can of whoop ass for myself on this post, but here it goes. This is a multi pronged question: First opening up a discussion on Sponsorship in the skydiving industry. How do people feel about it? Overall. What do you feel manufacturers could do to better their methods of sponsoring skydivers (athletes and Instructors)? If you take a second to read the ASIP program in the Safety and Training Forum, what do you think of it? There are a lot of reasons why companies want to sponsor individuals to jump their gear: -Altruistic: i.e. want to help the sport grow by facilitating competitors to hone their skills get better do cooler stuff. Wanting instructors to have the newest safest gear to set the example etc. (I once overheard a conversation where in someone was badmouthing Sunpath for sponsoring the whole world, and the person defending Derek said that Derek had told him that he did sponsor a lot of people but he did it because he wanted to be part of everything good in skydiving, I thought that was a great answer...and the stock in Sunpath went up in my book, and I don't even really know if he said it, but it sounded good to me, not that what I think matters they have a huge number of fans and make a great product) -Beta Testing: new products are created, they need to be tested. (An 8way team, 9 people doing 1000 [9000 total] training jumps in a year can give you valuable data on, many things such as line types, durability etc, trim issues and progressive problems.) -Exposure: Companies want the cool and groovies jumping their stuff. What are more reasons? What are perceived reasons that you feel there is no accountability for. What do you feel companies should do if they sponsor someone who clearly doesn’t add anything after a period of time? Here is where I deviate from sponsorship, with a statement then a question. I don’t have a tremendous amount of experience in linear time in this industry, however I am now in a position in my second major skydiving equipment related company (well Aerodyne may not be major yet…yet) and I find myself questioning sales methodology, company operation, delivery times, sponsorship, quality control and new product/technology development. All of these issues I look at not only from a companies point of view, but because I’m a skydiver, I try to look at them from a customer’s point of view and because the lifeblood of my sales system are distributors, I try to see things through their eyes too. I guess what I’m doing here is something I’ve seldom seen in these forums. I know I’ve been guilty too, people ask questions in an open forum and I come in, as an official representative of a manufacturer and say bla, bla, bla Slink, bla bla hard housing. I’m in a position now, as the Beastie Boys would say, to pass the mike. And ask the skydivers of the world some question questions: -How do you feel manufacturers could better serve the customer? -What do you feel we (manufacturers) do right? -What do you feel we do wrong? -What do you think would facilitate more product sales? -Do you have any question about the safety of products? (this is a tricky one because every company, including mine has an answer for every single question and concern of safety, but what I’m looking for more is any underlying fears) -What endears you to the sport of skydiving? Over all I’ve very rarely seen manufacturers asking the customer’s opinion? Questions as simple and to the point as: What would make you buy more stuff? We all sit around at meetings on Wednesdays and think of ways to sell our products to our friends. It’s crazy. I guess really I’m just opening it up for opinions, if there is any part of this post you want to speak on, I’d love to read it. If you have any great sales or marketing ideas I’d love to read them. If they are REALLY great…. ah could you send them to my personal email account. If you have any questions of me feel free to ask…. a.easterlin@aerodyne-int.com Aubrey Easterlin Aerodyne Research "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Hey, I just wanted to take a second to post the fact that the Aerodyne Sponsored Instructor Program (ASIP) is extended to all qualified BirdMan Instructors on a case by case basis. This is, for now, limited to the North and South American markets, you have to check with the Sales Managers of other geographic areas for their specific instructor requirements. The sponsorship is only for the Icon, Smart and PILOT combo. Since starting with Aerodyne I have been extremely impressed with the performance of the Pilot canopy in conjunction with my Skyflyer3. For specifics on the details of the ASIP program, please feel free to contact me for a ASIP application package and program summary, or you can do a search on the safety and training foram if you want read more about it. Aubrey Easterlin Sales Manager Aerodyne (North and South America) a.easterlin@aerodyne-int.com "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Heya, I wanted to take a second and post the details of the ASIP program, there is a little more info here than the press release gets into. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. (for the moderators:This post has been cleared with Sangiro prior to posting, and is to be kept unedited for clarity of content, thanks) Aubrey a.easterlin@aerodyne-int.com Aerodyne Sponsored Instructors Program (ASIP) Introduction: The ASIP is a comprehensive program developed to offer unparalleled support to professional skydiving instructors. Aerodyne is committed to support those who provide training to other skydivers and contribute to the safety of skydiving. It is a program that aims to provide instructors not only with a fantastic beginning level of sponsorship but embodies provisions for the instructor to build a relationship with Aerodyne that will be highly beneficial to all involved: the individual instructor, their home drop zone, Aerodyne authorized distributors and our company. Aerodyne intends to create a symbiotic environment that encourages mutual cooperation between all those involved for the betterment and progress of each. In the basic agreement, the instructor who solicits Aerodyne for sponsorship and is approved (now referred to as an Aerodyne Sponsored Instructor or ASI) will receive a full compliment of Aerodyne equipment (Aerodyne Pilot, Vision, or Triathlon, Smart reserve and Icon sport container) at 50% of the manufacturer’s suggested retail price. He or she will then begin a relationship with Aerodyne as a sponsored instructor, and start earning further future sponsorship in the form of equipment. Each ASI will receive marketing information on all of our skydiving equipment, referral cards for product sales, and an assigned ASI identification number. With each product that is referred to an authorized Aerodyne distributor the referring ASI will receive 5% cash value of the product’s MSRP off of the next Aerodyne product ordered, while the wholesale price to the distributor stays the same. In essence if the instructor refers 20 complete systems, their next complete Aerodyne system will be free! However it is not necessary to get a complete system. The cash value of items will be tracked by Aerodyne and maintained in an on line account managed by Aerodyne and the value of each referral is as good as cash on any Aerodyne product, main, reserve or container. Further, the ASIP program aims to facilitate communication between individually sponsored instructors, their drop zones, Aerodyne’s distributors and Aerodyne through a sharing of information, educational material and media (photos and video). Aerodyne is determined to promote its image and products around the world through many types of advertising, support of events and direct marketing, while strengthening its relationship with its distributors, affiliated drop zones and sponsored instructors. The ASIP is not a direct sponsorship of drop zones. It is designed to support individual instructors and Aerodyne’s authorized distributors. However drop zones will directly and indirectly benefit from having Aerodyne Sponsored Instructors on their staff, through support of local events, both educational in nature and boogies. Who is eligible to participate in the ASIP? 1) Instructors holding a current rating issued by or on behalf of their National Aeroclub, who are able to present a letter of recommendation from their local dropzone operator or manager, as well as a letter of recommendation from an authorized Aerodyne distributor. 2) All instructors participating in the ASIP program must be currently working at least part time at the drop zone that recommends them. 3) Distributors who are also instructors are not eligible for this program. What is expected of ASIP participants? 1) Each ASI in the program is expected to represent Aerodyne in a professional manner bringing credit to himself/herself and their drop zone, as well as to Aerodyne and its distributors. 2) Each ASI is asked to provide Aerodyne with material from time to time to be used in our marketing and advertising media. Photos, video and reviews and opinions of products will need to be provided periodically. 3) Each ASI will be expected to periodically wear issued clothing and patches that identify them as Aerodyne Sponsored Instructors. 4) Each ASI will be expected to have a fundamental understanding of each of Aerodyne’s skydiving products. Participants must make every effort to familiarize themselves with the flight characteristics of all the canopies marketed by Aerodyne, so that the finer differences of flight performance can be explained to potential customers. 5) Each ASI accepts to be identified as such in official Aerodyne communication, such as the website or e-mailings. 6) Each ASI will actively promote Aerodyne products and refer prospect buyers to an Aerodyne distributor. The referral is confirmed when the ASI hands a program referral card to the prospect buyer. 7) Each ASI will be required to jump the Aerodyne system intact. Substitution of canopies or containers with other brand products is not allowed. The ASI must not sell or separate the system for a period of 12 months from the time of receipt of the complete system. Aerodyne Sponsored Instructor Customer Referral Program: 1) ASI’s will receive their ASI identification number and Aerodyne product referral cards with their initial marketing packet and sponsorship contract. 2) Qualifying orders are those orders referred to a distributor by a customer who qualifies the referral by submitting either a referral card with the order that includes the ASI identification number. In the case of a telephone or internet order, the referring customer must give the distributor the ASI identification number with his order. The distributor will submit that number with the order in the appropriate space provided on the internet order form. 3) Remuneration of ASI’s: For each qualifying order Aerodyne will credit the account of the ASI with 5% of the MSRP value of that product. ASIP referral rewards are only credited to the account upon receipt of payment by the distributor and once shipment of goods is made. ASIP rewards accrued by the ASI may be used at any time to purchase Aerodyne products. (Aerodyne will communicate to its distributors a price list with the ASIP reward values per product, as well as the cash value of each product.) 4) It is the sole responsibility of the ASI to ensure that if he makes a referral the individual referred gives the referral to the distributor, and the distributor enters ASI identification number at the time of order. 5) Administration of the referral program: Aerodyne will administrate the account of each ASI on line in real time, so that at the time of product delivery the ASI can log in and see the cash values of his referrals in his account. Aerodyne will also send an account status by e-mail at least twice per year (June 30 and December 31), or at the request of the ASI. Enrollment: 1) The Potential ASI may request an ASI application via our website www.aerodyne-int.com or via one of these contacts: North and South America: Aubrey Easterlin a.easterlin@aerodyne-int.com Europe and Asia: Arnold Collenteur a.collenteur@aerodyne-int.com Africa and Indian Ocean: Dave Macrae d.macrae@aerodyne-int.com 2) The potential ASI must submit the completed ASI application form, photocopies of all skydiving licenses, a letter of recommendation from the dropzone, as well as a letter of recommendation by an Aerodyne distributor. Aerodyne reserves the right to refuse sponsorship to anyone. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Ha ha Justin he called your rig metrosexual.... I've seen a lot of things said in these posts over the years, but I've never seen the sexuality of a product questioned yet.... I think someone owes beer. Although you could use this in your marketing plan....something like a free bottle of CK1 with every Stock G3. Aubrey Aerodyne Makers of the Icon a regular sexual rig, welcomed to be worn by people of all sexual preferences, homo, hetero and metro. (beastialitic necrophiliacs please choose another product) "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Sarah- in my opinion both are good reserves, the Tempo is a little light on the reinforcement tape, but it does have the title of number one selling square reserve canopy of all times- The PD has a ton of tape and is pretty damn structurally sound, neither one of these reserves have had many problemw with failing to do their duty when called upon. However technology has come a long way and there are other reserves on the market now that incorporate a ton of well placed tape and good flying charachteristics. I'm sure when you choose a reserve you'll make a SMART choice (you people know I've been waiting to use that one) Aubrey Aerodyne (manufacturer of the Smart Reserve) PS have a good weekend of jumping, hopefully your weather is better than it is in Z hills today. "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

It sounds like you got a little bit of the shaft, and mind you I'm not necessarily privy to all that goes on in Europe, so I can only comment on what was/is happing in the U.S. Market. However I know that prior to the release of the Icon they were offering it for sale at a drastically reduced rate, and what you were getting for that price was a product that they couldn't make any promisis of time on. The Icon has been finished since early 2003 but the matter of getting a TSO is a bueracratic hurdle to say the least. I know when I started here in October I was told almost daily that everything was done, we were just waiting for the final signatures from the FAA office in Brussels, which I can totally believe, dealing with American government employees is never a quick process, just ask anyone who has ever been to the DMV. As for selling it prior to having a TSO, there are customers here who ordered it as early as July 27, we told these people that it was an "open ended delivery time" The only thing I can imagine is that once all the paperwork was submited and every thing but the signiture on the TSO was done, he felt confident in telling you those delivery times. I certainly don't like to make excuses, and I'm sorry you got hosed, again I'll try to make sure he contacts you, he has been out of his office (with the world team) for the past 4 weeks. If you ever make it to Florida, shoot me an email I owe you a couple of beers at least. Aubrey Easterlin Sales Manager Aerodyne (USA) "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

Sorry to hear your frustration, and I'd just like to let you know I have sent an email on your behalf to the European Sales Manager. I don't know who would quote you those delivery times. The Icon didn't even get it's TSO until late november and they only had one week of building time until our factory closed for a month for the holidays. Here in the US all the Icons that we sold in December and January were quoted a delivery time of 8-10 weeks from January 12, and just 8-10 weeks for all those ordered after January 12th. That means the VERY earliest someone would have gotten their rig would be March 12. As for canopies they have been catagorically on time or even early. With a promised time of 6-8 weeks for custom orders. As I said for the Icon we promised 8-10 weeks from Jan 12th and I have been informed that we will get our first three early next week (meaning just 4 weeks delivery), they have already been shipped from our production facility, meaning there will be three happy skydivers when the get their complete systems a month early. I was actually pretty worried that this being our first trial of serious production we would suffer some hicups or growing pains, but the powers that be are assuring me that I will be able to keep all my promises, and they say that the production time is only going to improve. As long as we can keep those orders coming in so that we can keep the craftsmen busy we could shave off a couple of weeks by early spring. As I said I'm really sorry for your wait, but American customers fear not, we are still right on track (famous last words) Aubrey Easterlin Sales Manager Aerodyne (USA) "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"