Belgian_Draft

Jakee, you asked me a question and I answered it. I really could not care less if you like the answer I offered. Go troll someone else. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

They are, of course, in our thoughts as well. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Really, it's cute what you do when you realise you've painted yourself into a corner. But seriously, an answer to even one of my questions would be appreciated, unless you want to just admit right now that you were talking shite. Sure. Which one? For starters: How will science and technology come to govern all choices? For starters? You asked me to answer "even one" so that's what I am going to answer...one. Eons ago when primates first started to walk upright and our ancestors separated from the rest of their kin, virtually all decisions were made via instinct or emotion. Rational thought was just starting to influence what those primates did when confronted with having to make a choice. As time went one and evolution created a smarter, stronger, bigger, and more creative creature those decisions were made with a more and more rational thought process. Today's humans make decisions based upon a combination of emotion and fact. A small example is technology can impregnate a female much more reliably than natural mating, yet our emotional influence causes us to stay with the natural method most of the time. (Almost all large cattle ranches use AI to save time and money.) My prediction, and it is just that..a prediction that you are free to disagree with...is that someday in the distant future virtually, if not all, decisions and choices will be made with no regard for emotion. That is. if we don't destroy ourselves with our own technology first. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I feel the same way. On paper it looks good, but in the real world 100% reliablity is impossible. Comparison of risk with what we accept when skydiving is instructive. That is an excellent example. Our rigs are very simple, constantly scrutinized by thousands of people for ways to make them better, yet there is still the very rare malfunction. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I feel the same way. On paper it looks good, but in the real world 100% reliablity is impossible. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You're correct that sarcasm is frequently difficult to read over the internet ... perhaps that's a lesson that applies across the board, eh?

Really, it's cute what you do when you realise you've painted yourself into a corner. But seriously, an answer to even one of my questions would be appreciated, unless you want to just admit right now that you were talking shite. Sure. Which one? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Since the main posters in this thread seem to have reached a somewhat calm state I propose we all do as labrys suggested and give these sailors their due respect. May they rest in peace. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Whether you knew it or not ... yes, there is one school of thought that states asserts exactly that. For tightly coupled systems of sophisticated technologies, normal accidents theory states that accidents will happen. It was originally developed to explain the Three Mile Island disaster and has subsequently been applied to Space Shuttle Challenger and Columbia disasters, commerical aviation disasters, the chemical industry, marine transport, and other high-risk, high-technology endeavors. The main alternative is high reliability theory. VR/Marg Yes, I have heard of that. Part of my job has always been to balance safety, reliability, and cost. The only way to make something 100% safe is to not make it at all. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

HMS Sidon HMS Artemis I guess the Brits have their own problems with shoddy construction, maintenance, and training. Or maybe it is just the nature of the business for accidents to happen once in a while regardless of the precautions taken. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

It's decisions about what? Science, in the sphere of scientific discovery, does not leave room for human emotion. The existence of gravity waves will not depend on happiness. A viable cold fusion reactor will not come into being because of envy. But what does that have to do with the working of society? ZOOOOOM! Right over your poor little head! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

The word "true" was used in a sarcastic manner. Sorry if it caused you any confusion. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I read about that situation a couple weeks ago. Seems they are only letting residents on the street and even they have to show ID. I bet he is looking forward to January. Hopefully things will return to normal then. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

What you said was this: That is an incorrect assumption, and does not factor in the Human Equation. It is incorrect to assume that without religion, there will be no emotion, no compassion, no charity. It is equally incorrect to say that if religion is eliminated from society that science will take over. Humans will always be humans, and they will act accordingly, with or without their special clubs. It is no more an incorrect assumption than assuming science will always leave room for human emotions. I have my predictions, you have yours. My assertion is not that science lacks emotion and compassion at this time, only that someday it will. It has been steadily moving towards that end for several hundred years and will take many hundreds more before society reaches that point. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Old news. Real old news. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

For the latter three, yes, absolutely. For the first point, no. A person's skill and competence depend on how well he has been trained, drilled and led. All the will in the world can't make up for major deficiencies in those areas. But that's a side issue anyway. What submarine did you serve on? Don't question jakee's knowledge and skills. After all, he reads about it in books all the time. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yep. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

LOL!! That is freakin' hypocritical it is hilarious! I defended my position very well. You, on the other hand, resorted to insult. Not a good thing for a student of the sciences to do. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I doubt that very much. Compassion and Charity were around long before religion, and they are rooted more in human nature than in any organized belief system. If you believe that atheists are emotionless, then you have no understanding of atheism or humanity. Lots of thing were around a long time before organized religion. That doesn't mean they will still be around if religion is gone. I never said atheists were emotionless. My prediction was, and is, that as science and technology displace religion society will evolve toward a much more logic based decision making process and emotion & compassion will be considered less and less. Eventually they will be left out entirely. After all, science bases it's decisions on hard cold facts, not emotion. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

See that's just a lie. The idea that a person who dedicates their professional life to finding out how the universe works therefore can't understand ethics or be compassionate is an absolute crock of shit. (The idea that religion is the only repository of ethical thinking, similarly shit) It's one of the arguments that creationist retards use against evolution - "If you teach natural selection and survival of the fittest, it'll lead to euthanasia and social darwinism!". t's wrong then, and it's wrong here. What's the matter there, Schoolboy....somebody hit a nerve? Instead of trying to engage in a civil discussion, you automatically jump into insults against people who don't share your beliefs and then wonder why the religious groups have a dislike for science. Gee, I wonder. As far as what the future holds, we'll just have to wait and see, won't we? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Vote your information I have voted twice for each major party in the last four elections. Clinton is one of the best, if not THE best, politicians we have ever seen. But as a leader he failed miserably. He never actually balanced anything, he merely borrowed more from future revenue than most other presidents. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Ridiculous. Clinton gave us a record surplus. Bush flushed it down the crapper. Yeah, look at the thousands of soldiers killed when he did that. Any policies a sitting President makes concerning the economy don't show an impact for several years, usually after that person has left office. Clinton enjoyed the economy set up by Carter & Reagan, Bush2 got blamed for the mess Clinto started, and Obama will enjoy a revival of the economy since it has nowhere to go but up. People can argue for days on end about who did what to the economy but, in all reality, if it were as simple an issue to solve as most would have you believe then everyone would be in agreement as to what measures to take. Hell, we can't even get Congress to agree on whether a small tax break is good or bad for the economy, and it's impact is very minute either way. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I'm not a religious person myself, but I don't hold it against those who are. Religion does have it's place in society, but that niche is slowly being eroded away. The danger in this lies in the future when and if religion is ever totally eliminated. Science and technology will govern all choices with no regard to compassion or charity. After all, a TRUE scientist would never allow anything intangible like compassion intrude upon their decision making process. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

No joke. My remarks were and are sincere. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I guess I'm the only son-of-a-bitch here that has enough respect for lost sailors to feel a sarcastic smart-assed remark is out of place while addressing the incident so soon after it happened. Oh wel, it's like the schoolboy said...respect has to be earned. And so far he is in negative numbers. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.