mollyo

I am so stunned to hear, so sorry! blessings to his family, all of his friends in SD. i haven't seen Adam for years but always nice, always cool and such a gifted skydiver.... hope you get to fly all the time now Adam & are at peace. Molly

oh my god I just found out tonight. I met Lee thru Bob, what a great person and a great friend to bob. I only jumped with him a few times on sweetie's whatever ways... just a great person. It was a priveiege to have met him. I just don't get life right right now. Brandy- I think we met only once if that. I am so sorry, so sorry. My heart goes out to you.

I am so sorry to hear this! Everytime I went to skydive san diego & ran into Wyatt he was always so nice to me & he didn't really know me at alll! Definitley could always tell what a nice person, warm heart he had. Bonnie, I think I have met diana once or twice only, but please give her a hug for me, please....

and its a wonderful, touching film! I hope many will go out to see it today!

hey all. just wanted to give you an update & close out this post. See Billvon's post titled "Results of USPA meeting." in this forum. A hug step forward for safe skies for all. Thank you everyone for your input in preparation for the meeting.

Hi All- this is from Sherry Butcher, BOD- they have finalized the times for our slots on the agenda: ----------- Just want to give you a final update on the committee meeting times. Your group is scheduled first on the agenda for both committees. The Safety and Training committee will start at 9:00am on Saturday morning and the Group Membership committee will start at 1:00pm on Saturday afternoon. The location of the meetings will be posted in the main meeting room. They are generally posted on Friday afternoon.

yes, even w/ our poll, we are only hitting a small percentage of the skydiving population, just like the other poll you are referring to. Shoot, I never visit dz.com unless I want to sell or buy something really or read some article I have been referred to. Most of the skydivers I know do not come to this site but this is still a great way to get as many opinions as we can- everyones- including you :) I have also gotten alot of emails sent to me about the subject (mostly pro bsr vs not) so I am just trying to collect everything...all opinions. This thread will be brought w/ us to uspa & all my emails too. This is just one easy way for people to voice out & give their support for a bsr for canopy patterns (or not). The more opinions, the more people involved, the better. Change for safer skies has to happen, now. For everyone. No one wants to ban swooping in our small little group that has presented this- I am frustrated that people will post that, its not true. I want swoopers to have their own airspace however the DZ deems most appropriate for all ( i like option 3 the best). I would think swoopers would appreciate no slow toads like me in their way. Bob LOVED to swoop. LOVED it. I could never be for banning swooping- thats not what he would have wanted. Bob would want safer skies for everyone! Thats what he educated. He was one of the safest skydivers I knew & made so many skydivers safer. I have been scared to death under canopy especially the last couple of years- and have almost been taken out by a swooper 2 weeks before bob, my boyfreind died. I was looking everywhere, my head was on a swivel. I never could have seen that skydiver that cut me off from above. I talked to him after I landed & he didn't care at all. He was annoyed I was in HIS way. Then my boyfreind is killed 2 weeks later...hell has truly frozen over & no more staying quiet. I want to be part of the solution, part of the process....and I want everyone to be part of it. We need separation for different canopy patterns. Our sport must evolve along with the technology of high performance canopies. I thank you for all your comments & arguements. I hope more, continue to voice their opinion either way like you have. Really, thank you. I mean it.

Thank you flip for explaining even more! Many of you have PM'd me signing the petition that way- thats totally cool. So, if folks feel better PM'ing me instead of signing the post thats fine. Or if you want to email me directly: skymolly2@yahoo.com that works too. safeskies everyone, molly

hey all, just a mini update...but I am still waiting for official dates/times from folks we will be presenting at the first meeting on saturday (7/14) on the safety & training agenda but I don't the exact time of that meeting yet/what time the first meeting starts at. We are still hoping for either a saturday or sunday presentation time slot on the group membership agenda vs a friday slot. I hope to see & meet many of you at the USPA meeting!

Hi All Many of you have brought up some good points - "this is too vague", "what am I really signing?" I will try to explain our objective. The reason the petition is not concrete is that we want USPA to fill in the details; they are better at that than we are. The specific language is up to our elected regional and national directors and the committees they are on. We have posted 3 examples on how the USPA could write a BSR to acheive our intent- to separate high performance landings from standard landing patterns. We will be presenting all 3 options in July to the safety & training committee & the group membership committee. We posted it here and have emailed it to the full board to get as much feedback as we can...to get people talking on how to make our skies safer through new rules and additional education. If you prefer one option over another, or prefer an entirely different approach, I encourage you to contact your regional and national directors to express your opinion to them. They will be the ones deciding how best to deal with this problem and they need to hear what your opinion is. I also encourage you to come to the July BOD meeting and present your views on this proposal directly. This is the post with all 3 options to review: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2786877;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread edited to add clicky. everyone loves the clicky.

In July a group of us will be presenting a petition at the USPA Board of Directors meeting to ask for a rule change to help prevent canopy pattern collisions. If you would like to support us, please reply to this post with your name and license number (or USPA number) and we will add your name to the petition. The petition is: We, the undersigned, support a BSR change to reduce landing fatalities by separating high performance and standard pattern landings.

Thank you todd for having us on the agenda on saturday. We would like 30 minutes for our group just in case...we don't to run out of time & it would be easier to give time back for others to speak vs not having enough. I hope many skydivers will also be present at the meeting to share opinions & concerns. The more skydivers involved the better to help make our sport safer. Just to let everyone know too- we will be on the group membership committee agenda too, hopefully for saturday as well. We are also planning on talking to the full BOD- again I am unsure on the day/time at this point.

I have 1050 jumps or so, I don't have my logbook handy. First jump 1998- so nine years but 2 years off recovering from injury in there so 7 active years. Mostly RW 1 year competing in 4 way last year (I am looking for a team) World records: JFTC 2002 JFTC 2005 WT 2006 I do a straight in approach. I have almost killed myself once so I will just stick to a normal pattern. I have taken Scott Millers basic canopy course twice, his advanced course once. Those are excellent courses by the way. Last skydive: My Boyfriend's Ash Dive 3/23/07- Bob Holler. Hopefully you will understand- but I am not ready to skydive yet so I am taking a break (if I am not current enough for you). I am on the AZ Challenge in May. & up to March I had about 50-60 jumps this year. Our goal to make canopy flight safer for everyone- swoopers & non swoopers. Bob was a swooper. Damn good one too. He just knew when it was appropriate to swoop, and when it wasn't. He was killed by Danny. Bob was following the pattern, doing everything he was supposed to doing. He never had a chance. Lets stop this now- so that others may live. Separate areas or by time will make it better for all. Please continue the discussion, its all great- we all need to be a part of this.

Good Ideas chuck!! I would be into that! I know to, when I think of something to ask, I 1) forget because I am not around a staff member at the time like you have forgot 2) they are busy with students and I most certainly do not want to interrupt them. then its the end of the day & I forget. Since I have been incosistent visiting otay w/ surgeries, going to perris or doing something else, I do forget the next time for sure when I go to Otay. So having regular meetings would be cool. Staff members? comments? Would any of this work for you at all? cool, cool, I feel the love again, yay!!!!!

sounds good to me :) I am getting warm fuzzies, it will be similar to 'old times', cool.

Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, I forgot about that!! We is in the house!!

Oh lord we are soooo dysfunctional....

HI Buzz Thanks for your response, I know we all don't mean to say things at times esp. when emotions run high. We both did it. We all care about safety & we are all learning from this. I can already think of many questions to ask any new DZ i may visit now right away including skydive SO CAL when I do eventually visit them. (safety procedures, making sure I introduce myself to staff when I see them where I may not have before) I would love to do a 10 way with us & staff! I haven't met some of the staff when I have been down there & I think one of the reasons is we all pack in different areas & 2) I haven't walked up & said hi to someone I don't know well, I just say 'hi etc' to the staff I do know. This would be a great interaction w/ staff & experienced jumpers. I do miss those interactions we used to have. ok, but you gotta wait on the 10 way :) I am on crutches for at least another 2 wks. Hopefully I will get the ok then. Molly

Ok I am a slowww typer. I got behind on the posts. I agree w/ you Buzz- well said Barbara & Bill. My intention was never to anger or bash skydive san diego & the staff. We all care about safety & I think alot of good will come out of this post.

Molly, I find it very hard to believe YOU wrote this. When you hooked turned into the ground and almost killed yourself, you were surrounded by staff members. Andy Witcomb sat there holding your bloody head in his hands the whole time. --------------- oh dear this is getting bad. These issues have been brought up for safety & safety alone. I got angry, I posted and yeah I am sorry, I thought alot about my accident. Thus my anger over what happened to Barbara- what if that was me 3 yrs ago? Please just to clarify: I don't hook turn. Don't wanna now, never did. Since I don't remember anything I have to go on what others tell me. It was a long spot, I made it back but for some reason I turned to low to land into the wind. I don't know why I did, Ive done down wind landings before. I don't think I would call that a hook turn.

this is good, really good since we are all talking about it now. I agree, my response was in anger and one sided. Unfortunately, I hear a story here, a story there & most not good ones. Therefore, I did have an angry response to barbara's email. Its a build up of alot of incidents. But now I have to defend my comments alittle! 4. Molly’s comments about students getting hurt and no staff going out to help them is simply not true. When molly had her landing accident a few years back, everyone was out there to help, staff and friends both. Andy Witcomb, who is now the GM and S&TA, was there the whole time holding your head. ----------------- Yes, everyone, staff & non-staff did an awsome job (from the stories I hear since i was knocked out) and my response was not to bash or put down those who helped me including Andy. I don't remember who held my head, or who all was there. That was not my intention at all to 'put' down people that helped me in my post. What I have seen (or not seen, yes, I am not there as often as I used to be, I jump the most at perris) is some procedures perhaps that could be better or improved since we have moved from Brown field that I have witnessed (ie. students, people landing off) Now since you have come & the military (and probably when andy took over too-I don't know the whole timeline) procedures/mgmt have improved big time! The plane turns, their is more staff around period, manifest is efficient & nice, etc. Its been really cool, there fore I came down 3 weekends in a row- I saw how it was different/good changes so I came back. I got to talk to Andy briefly too and it sounded like everything was really coming around. However, I think there is some room for improvement, thats all. Hearing 'another story' frustrated me. ---------- The fact that Molly has never seen a staff member help an injured student is because she rarely jumps at the DZ and even more rarely would see an injury. ---------- Yes, I don't very often here at otay anymore because I did/do have concerns about safety and procedures. Unfortunately those concerns comes from those'stories' again from other skydivers and not all witnessed by me. 5. Molly’s comments that no safety procedures are in place again shows her lack of knowledge and quite bluntly, her ignorance. I would ask Molly and Barbara when the last time was she asked to speak to the manager or S&TA about these issues. I can answer that she has not. She would rather flame away on this thread than find out the truth since the truth is not what she wants to hear. Ok, fair enough. I was angry when I wrote my response and I have not sought out staff over some incidents I have heard about. Ok, you have safety procedures. However though, it appears you don't monitor those safety procedures close enough? Or maybe they are not the best procedures since you did get the wrong information on how many jumpers landed off on the tracking dive? 6. As for Molly’s comments about a Big meeting and new safety rules after her accident, no amount of rules and meetings will prevent experienced jumpers from being stupid and hooking themselves into the ground. Even DZ’s with no hook turn policies see hook turn accidents as many jumpers simply ignore them. ------------------ I was told there was a meeting to improve safety at Otay(I was in a coma so I don't know the details). Comments from other jumpers soon after my accident & when I started to skydive again (1 yr later) it appeared that meeting did not go far/not alot of changes came about. (This is all before you came to work at otay) I agree you cannot prevent skydivers from being stupid and hooking it in & getting hurt. . 8. Barbara, when was the last time you asked who the S&TA was? It is Andy Witcomb by the way, the GM. Molly say’s “I think I’ve asked”? Come on Molly, you think? There are also two other S&TA’s that work on the military side available. If you truly are concerned about safety and not knowing, then why post it in this forum instead of asking? You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Which would be more productive? ---------------- Ok I guess I need to be more specific in my question/response. I have asked experienced jumpers who are around me jumping too 'who is the S&TA?' No, I have not asked any of the staff when I have been there & on the weekends, I don't think the military staff has been around much to ask?(they work during the week? Right?). This thread prompted me to ask again, so I did. ------------ Now, some additional background information. Barbara and Molly are best friends and are attempting to slander a good DZ by one posting and the other responding and adding to the flame. They are also upset that their friend Curt Swanson is no longer doing Freefly Load Organizing at the DZ. Curt did informal Freefly load organizing at the DZ and did a good job of it. However, we were looking for a permanent Freefly organizer. We were approached by both Curt and Mike Ortiz, world champion freeflyer. We ultimately chose to use Mike Ortiz but left open the possibility of Curt assisting. Curt chose not to accept this and went to Perris. We have since increased Mike’s workload on our Navy Contract reducing the amount of time he has available. So we brought in Icarus Team Evolution. They load organize for both freeflying and canopy control and have a proven track record for producing better and safer jumpers. Curt now finds himself at Skydive SoCal on Brown Field. For the record, I wish Skydive SoCal and Curt all the best and am happy they are succeeding and doing well. ---------------------- Ok, whoa. Yes, Barbara & I are very good freinds. I didn't even think of Curt & his situation until you posted it. I dont' know alot about that situation & this thread is not about that. Barbara & I are not out to slander Skydive San Diego. I had 3 awsome weekends in a row there (didn't go the last 2 since I am rehabing from hardware removal) & was really excited. A DZ only 30 min away from me & its really coming together. I also did a jump including Brett from team Evolution & it was a great skydive. Again, my concerns are for safety too. -----------------------

Exactly. I am pretty sure my injury 3 yrs ago at skydive san diego was never printed/reported to USPA. the DZ has to submit the info.

Thats awlful Keith. I don't remember if I heard of that incident before, was it recent? Oh I can't wait to get off my crutches & try out the new DZ. We are very fortunate we now have 4 dropzones to pick from. Again, this is why I don't recommend this dropzone to potential AFF or tandem.

Yes, who is the S& TA???? I don't know!!! I think I have asked but no one has said. Is it Andy now??

Thanks for the thread, interesting & informative.