smokin99

Yeah I realize that. If you read the piece though, it shows the pilots frustration with the problem and the way they deal with it. In the context of all that it makes it a little easier to at least "consider" the concept of an inside job.. Just thought it was interesting but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

This is a long read, but about a third of the way down the author starts to talk about the 1972 suspension of service in answer to skyjacking problem. http://www.alpa.org/publications/Flying_The_Line_II/FTL2Chapter3.html Excerpt..... It continues on..with the unions strategy from that point..... Interesting read. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Never mind I found it.. The first kraft paper lunch size bag I came across on the WWW was 5” wide x 3.25” deep x 9.75" high. Your dimensions still wouldn't hold a bunch of stuff. Even so - I wouldn't classify a "typical" shopping bag (grocery) as a "small" bag. Medium sized maybe. And so, again - I'm just pointing out, for the record, that the paper bag was described as "small" and probably would not be holding a bunch of items if two of those items were boots. Or 1 boot and a flashlight. Or a pair of long johns and a pair of goggles. Or a sandwich and a inflatable raft. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Just to keep this from going the myth direction....from all reports it was a "small" paper sack. Ckret even specifically said it was too small to have a change of clothes - much less all and sundry as per above. I'm trying to find the actual size - can't remember off the top of my head if it was ever stated - I know the dimensions of the money bag were listed - just not sure about paper bag. On another note....I am seriously thinking about compiling a data base of what the transcripts say vs what the FBI agents say vs what the different authors say about certain items. What is speculation (aka myth) vs high probables based on logic vs fact (if such a thing exists). This has been tried before but in a limited fashion - I suspect it will be way too time consuming. I have read all of the major books about the hijacking and they ALL contradict each other and the "official" version on various points. Interesting: I was looking over an interview that Geoff Gray did with the folks at WSHS and Gray was asked about any surprises he got when he was allowed into the inner sanctum. An excerpt from here.... http://collections.washingtonhistory.org/emuwebwshs/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=19946 Now why would someone say that when all you have to do is look up newspapers from as early as the day after the hijacking and find the name Dan Cooper. Newspapers even carried stories about the name discrepancy. "Sorry Dan...Cooper gets "B" in Hijacking" was the headline in one newspaper (the Oregonian on Dec 23, 1971). Gray then goes on and basically attributes the alias Dan Cooper to the comic book. Now it might one day be proven so - several people, including moi are diligently trying to prove or disprove the comic book connection as I type -- but as of today, there is NO WAY for Geoff Gray or anyone else to know this as a fact. It is still in the myth column no matter how you slice it. I get the selling books thing - I really do - and to some extent we are hostage to them (pun intended) because several were privy to the files. But a word of caution.... if you are serious about getting your DB Cooper on, you gotta know you cannot take any of the books written to date totally at face value. There is no "Cooper royalty" cause even the ones who supposedly got the inside scoop get it wrong. And that one goes in the fact column.

Hi Joachim. Personally, I'm open to all possibilities..but to your question: Melvin Luther Wilson was the father of a poster on here - EVickiW. Disappeared in Sept of 1971. Not just someone that left his home - this guy had federal marshals looking for him. We know he was a underwater diver, outdoorsy, and not averse to risk. Caveats: >>Not sure if he has been positively placed in a parachute yet (though I don't know that anyone has "definitively 100%" proved this as a prerequisite, I think most are agreed that some knowledge would help). >>His eyes were blue but apparently they were so dark blue that they appeared black at times. The description says blue/black. >>Some say he doesn't match the composite. LOL...to which I say... 1. I've never seen anyone that doesn't match if you squint hard enough. So you be the judge... 2. Which composite?

If we could find the guy in this pic of Grey Cup winner's locker room, we've solved our mystery. http://www.glenbow.org/images/archpics/football.jpg linked from here: http://www.glenbow.org/collections/search/findingAids/archhtm/football.cfm but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Well, I could see old Bernie and Kenny cruising up to Canada in that station wagon for the 1971 game. Game was on a Sunday, right? Margie Geestman said her husband did not return until the following Monday or Tuesday after the hijacking. This is one I should add to the screenplay, just for kicks. Tell you the truth, I always wondered why Geestman stayed out for so many days after the hijacking. Nice try, but Kenny hated hockey and football. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Sorry if this has been posted before but for some reason just came across on my news feed and don't remember it being posted. What's up with fugitives and Vancouver championship games?

Not sure about it being Kenny and Bernie, but that scenario or one where someone finds a body and chute and dumps that and keeps the money is as plausible as some of the other theories that abound. Maybe even more so in some cases. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Contrary to what has been posted, and I know what Himmelsbach is alleged to have said, I read somewhere that at least one Northwest person and a couple of Boeing people were questioned shortly after the event. I can't locate the article or post now and it might have been two separate articles or posts. Does anyone else remember this? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Oops didn't realize you deleted it. LOL. I don't either. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I am no longer releasing anything new concerning Kenny Christiansen. There are a couple of reasons. First, although the vast majority of the information that has been released about him (contrary to popular opinion) is TRUE, it is also true a few mistakes were made concerning his financial transactions during the one-year period following the hijacking. Most are minor, and don't really affect the testimony of the witnesses, or the basic fact that Kenny was loaning out thousands of dollars to the *alleged* accomplice's sister and somehow managed to buy a house along the way. So...we are investigating that facet of Kenny's life further. So is Shutter. I still have a strong suspicion that Kenny was Cooper, but until we get the stuff on his house purchase right, no more goes out about him. I've been asked: 'Okay...so when do you plan to do this? When will you update these things?' Fair question, and here's the answer: On Saturday afternoon, August 10th, at the Auburn Avenue Theater, Auburn WA, during the annual 'Auburn Days' festival. It's well-known I have trust issues going with some Cooperland residents. And I have perfectly good reasons for this. For example, the first time I was scheduled to present the infamous Kenny Christiansen slideshow at the Ave for that particular year's festival...someone called up City Hall and made threats. The city responded by calling up both me and festival director Connie Henke and giving us a heads-up. A plainclothes cop hung out in the lobby. We put on the show anyway and nothing happened. But this is the kind of lowlife, crazy shit you get from *some* people in Cooperland. Or they post up shit comments on every Cooper article they can find until mods step in or the poor author is forced to delete the article. Trust? I don't have that in Cooperland. I trust 377, Amazon, a few others here. Some I don't. Especially the two who forgot that not only can I occasionally call on the services of a certain PI, but who forgot IP's can be traced. I won't mention names publicly. One of them I haven't seen a post from in months. The other is a regular at Dropzone and not a skydiver. Yesterday I was asked to create an official Facebook community page for the Adventures in Literature event that I co-chair at the Auburn Ave Theater. So I did. Another Cooper-type book author will be making an appearance and doing his own slideshow. I was asked to follow that with an updated version of the Kenny Christiansen slideshow, and I have agreed to that. The other author is not Bruce Smith, Geoff Gray, and certainly not GreyCop. Other than that, I can't tell you until late June when we print up the speaking schedule. Warning: That FB page is admin'd by some fairly smart people, and unlike outside articles, you have to sign in to Facebook to post. And that means even if you create a bogus account to make shit comments, you can be traced easily. My techie guy Greg at AB says so, and I believe him. He types code at 70wpm and has been making computers jump through hoops for him since Windows 3.0. Besides, we would just shut you off, delete your post, and report you to Facebook. If they find out you have ANOTHER account from the same IP, your REAL account at FB will vanish quicker than a fart in the wind. This is Seattle baby and we know how to do tech around this town.

Try finding his family - like a brother who was about 10 yrs older. Bill Thomas or Wiliam Thomas. Common name - but look in Georgia and then in Chicago. Was the owner of an insurance company in Ga who sold insurance to FBI and other - Goverment Employees. Seems like Bill Thomas signed off ON a lot of false infomation regarding Weber and his employment. Remember that Oakdale was the locations several thousands of dollars in 20's (not cooper 20's) was scattered over the back and in the contained areas of an apartment building. In the EAST we never learned the source of this money or who tossed it. Oakdale - near Modesto is a place that Duane and his exwife lived for a short period of time. All I have to contribute to this conversation.... You might check and see if the OLD woman's memory is really out of WHACK! I'm thinking he probably had nothing to do with Duane. I'd like to find a 70s picture of him though. Right now - if anything that we've found (or not found in regards to being attorney) means anything........ Beech vs Piper, attorney vs Hell's angel (yeah I get that he could be both), disappeared vs "seemingly" obvious crash, the picture we have vs he looked just like the composite in 71. I don't know....I could very well be wrong, but I wonder...either urban legend or someone just got their stories about the good ol days mixed up.

lol...I've seen lots of solid well-groomed hair styles that looked awful. AS a matter of fact, I myself sported one about 6 months ago and saw it every day til it finally grew out. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Edited: I read it again and looks like he's probably not in these linked pics.....One post though says that they have posted photos of him and Jeanni McCombs and to search photos for him. I did a quick one just on Norton and did not get any hits. Well actually I did but it was like 20,000 - which at this point in time is as good as zero. lol.. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4116700#4116700 Okay - found two pics but one is the you've already posted and the other looks like the same plane and same moustache, but he's got one of those leather helmets on.

There is a NTSB report if this is the same guy. Says pilot was 45 in 1982, but there were two people in the plane. Not sure yet though if this was the plane or if he was the pilot. Looks like the Steve Haley referred to might be on dropzone....He might be a source of info if you wanted Norton's age, etc. http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Skydiving_History_%26_Trivia_F21/Have_Haleys_chute%3B_Looking_for_Nortons._P1085617/ but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Haven't found anything about being a lawyer, but I think he might have been Robert "Norton" Thomas. And then there's this: but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I'm sure you Seattle fans didn't mind, but that was a bit of a downer. lol...The scores really sucked. Didn't land on a single square I owned. Congratulations to all the Seattle fans. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The witnesses would never get the chance to speak to a jury because no sane prosecutor would take this to court based on what you have or what you would get in that room. Unless maybe they wanted some comic relief or press time. See Robert, You have no real tangible evidence and no real circumstantial evidence. Not to mention that the FBI has said that Kenny doesn't meet the basic smell test. Just a bunch of he said, she said. Even if Bernie said yeah we did it, a smart lawyer would get that thrown out. Like Jo, you're persistent, I'll give you that - so far there's just nothing there. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yup. Brains literally get scrambled. For decades. And the the NFL tries to settle out for what really is a pittance given the number of players concussed and the severity of their injuries. The NFL prints money, they have enormous resources. A judge isn't playing ball though and is balking at approving it even though the parties have accepted it. When I was in engineering school some ME students outfitted a pro football player with helmet mounted accelerometers and telemetry. The recorded forces were shocking. Nobody expected them to be that high. That was 40 years ago. The beat goes on. Literally. 377 You know what really annoys me???? I can't figure out how the NFL managed to swing being a non-profit.... Talk about a sweetheart deal for all those billionaire owners. Yeah. Unfortunately, the players are the ones that will need the money so they can hire someone to take care of them when they are drooling, soiling their pants, and can't remember the way home. Yep, I think y'all can have your football. This is ridiculous. And pretty much a sucker game if you're into competition. Baseball is a lot more civilized. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Can I paraphrase what you are saying, Robert? You are saying if there are errors on your publicly posted DB Cooper page, you will fix them one time and only the ones directly submitted to you? And if there are still errors, or other items are found to be errors in the future you intend to just leave them there? Second question, how does someone buying a home assuming a mortgage for half of the purchase "suspicious circumstances"? It would seem someone buying a house for cash would be more suspicious? Your first assumption is correct. Submit list, I will check it, I will make changes if necessary. Be specific. This is because I don't feel like doing it twice, or going back again and again via more...yes...WHINING. You get one shot and one only. I will try to cover everything on the list. On the second item, I am pretty sure now how the house sale went down. But I consider the house sale to be far less important than other items regarding KC. Let's face it...even if Kenny HAD bought the house for full cash value, how would that prove he was the hijacker? I've never claimed for sure that Kenny was Cooper because there isn't enough to prove it. The evidence I consider much more important are the actual statements of witnesses, and the lies told by Bernie Geestman. Things like Margie Geestman and Helen Jones both testifying that the two men went missing over Thanksgiving, for example. Or Dawn Androsko ID'ing the tie clasp as Kenny's. Or maybe Jones verifying that Kenny smoked Raleighs. Other things. Submit the list. Considering the work involved here, I don't think that's too much to ask. I will paste this list into a Word doc, print it up, go to the website, go to the PDF, and reload both after changes are made. I will also have to go to some different articles and change the links leading to the PDF at the website. This is a fair amount of work and I only wish to do it once. Then...no more complaining should be heard. I'm out of here until after the Super Bowl. Steaks are ready to cook and it's two hours until kickoff...(*go hawks*) I will check back after the game. Just in case you missed this....and while I'm waiting on slowpoke to get his stuff together for the party........ How about we've already done that but you would rather play these silly games for whatever reason. These are not opinions we are talking about, but matters of FACT as you well know. I personally don't care if you change anything or not because I don't mind pointing out your misrepresentations every time you reference them. Or letting others know that you can't trust the information on your site. That's actually a better proposition because it also speaks to the fact that there might be a underlying credibility problem going on. Kind of like with others who have a problem with the truth. So let's just forget it and we will just continue to point out the mistakes on your website. You call it WHINING - I call it KEEPING THE FACTS STRAIGHT AND THE PLAYERS HONEST.

Off to the Super Bowl party thing. I don't really care who wins as long as the scores fall on my squares at the end of each qtr and at the end of the game. lol....somehow I'm thinking my 1 - 5 is not gonna make it. Oh well - maybe one of my others will come through. It would not hurt my feelings if they outlawed football tomorrow. I can find something else to gamble on :) I'm with Danielle1010. Baseball is my game. Enjoy the game all. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Here's the problem: Everyone got an opinion, as the saying goes. We may have differing opinions on what constitutes 'factual mistakes'. That's why instead of everyone wasting their time saying that there ARE mistakes, and stamping their feet about them...shutter should just post a concise list and I will see what I can do. I want to see a final list. Until that happens, I'm not doing a thing beyond what I already did, which was to change 'bought house for cash' to 'purchased home under suspicious circumstances'. This is a lot of work to modify the public PDF and the webpage. And I don't feel like doing it six or seven or a dozen times. Submit list. I will consider making changes. Then after I do, I won't have to read any more of this stuff, because I will go right down the list and show you that the changes were made. One time, one chance. Submit your requests for changes below, be specific, keep your explanations short if you can. This is a one-shot deal, so make sure you submit a proper list because I'm not doing this work a second time, nor will I being doing it for everyone who posts here, so you guys might want to put your heads together offline and agree on something final. I will look. I will do the work necessary. Otherwise, please stop whining. I hate to use that word, but I have been more than fair here and this is starting to sound like whining from a (possible) Cooperland Peanut Gallery. How about we've already done that but you would rather play these silly games for whatever reason. These are not opinions we are talking about, but matters of FACT as you well know. I personally don't care if you change anything or not because I don't mind pointing out your misrepresentations every time you reference them. Or letting others know that you can't trust the information on your site. That's actually a better proposition because it also speaks to the fact that there might be a underlying credibility problem going on. So just forget it and we will just continue to point out the mistakes. You call it whining - I call it keeping the facts straight and the players honest. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

are yous ending Blevins 20-60 Cooper emails a day? He likes and advertises it! Keep up the good work, so Blevins can become more famous than Cossey, and wind up on Letterman, and replace Tom Kaye! Sorry. I don't want to 'be more famous than Cossey,' I certainly am not in the league of Tom Kaye and his team, and I don't watch Letterman any more... Shutter: List required. 'It's the right thing to do'. What exactly? Haven't you figured out yet WHY I asked for a specific, concise list of items you object to? It's because I will hold you to that list after I make any changes. You go on and on about this stuff, but you don't bother to take five minutes to present a list. Until you do, I'm not going to bother with granting your wish. And even if I do, I won't do it until my next day off, which is Tuesday. Not today. It's Super Bowl Sunday. Shutter didn't say that it's the right thing to do. I did. You are accusing someone of a bad crime. Have the cojones to correct your mistakes. You can't - because to set the record straight means that you lose almost all that your candidate choice is predicated on. You've been presented with lists. Shutter's in an attachment and mine in a post. But you shouldn't need one. You know where the misinformation is as well as we do. Why should Shutter do your clean up work for you? You certainly have no qualms about pointing out other people's mistakes but yo are afraid to look at your own work with a critical eye? I call foul. To continue to be obtuse and not change what you know is wrong is your prerogative. To lie is your prerogative. To continue to point out your misrepresentations is ours. Any day.