smokin99

Hi there and welcome. Nothing against Blevins personally, but just know that some of the data that Blevins and the Decoded show presented has been shown to be inaccurate. I've noticed that when folks make up their minds about candidates (especially those that write books) they tend to quit researching once they find something that fits and that's all they put out there. But we try to keep em honest.....you can probably guess that from the posts. :) I hope that you are a Braves fan.

No need to get insulting. There may be a mistake here or there. Outright, deliberate lies? I think not. Let me know when you finish editing your 50th book, as I have. Many happy customers. Then you can talk about brain cells rolling around. Cooper isn't the only thing I have going in my life you know. You're just pissed off because I stopped revealing anything new on KC for the moment. Too bad. I'm not going back a page, either. You want changes? Make a concise list and I will see what I can do. That's the best you'll get from me. You've spent more posts and typing time saying 'I already gave it to you,' when you could have saved time and presented an exact list of your objections. And let's face it, why should I do YOU any favors? I don't like being called a liar. So...I will just leave up what is up at the website and you can continue to whine about it. Works for me. List. Concise. Otherwise you should exit stage right on the whining. Hmmmm. Marla meet Blevins...Yeah...remember he's the one that called you a liar because it appeared you misrepresented several points in your Cooper campaign. Robert, maybe you should just do it because it's the right thing to do. Once again, when you are peddling a book or a web page where the sole purpose is to accuse someone of a violent crime /act of terror that caused financial and psychological damage as well as the potential of death to passengers and crew, it would probably be a good thing to at least try to get the facts straight. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

What 'important points'? Waiting for the list... KC was left-handed. (Source: testimony from friends and family members, and handwritten letters) I don't know whether the FBI ever established that the hijacker was left handed. It would be good if they did, since they could easily narrow the 'known suspect' pool. Most estimates peg it at only 8%-10% of people being left-handed. If it were 100%, without-a-doubt-in-hell that the hijacker was RIGHT handed, you could eliminate Christiansen because that is a known factor about him. He was definitely LEFT handed. LOL...I don't think he was asking for a source on Christiansen being left-handed. AS to Cooper - According to the FBI, they did not establish this. And the fact that you don't know whether something is true or not should be enough to make you take it down instead of presenting it as a probable in such a way as to tie your candidate into it. Why are you still waiting for the list? Robert, you really should try to read the posts instead of shooting off from the hip. Shutter and I have given you several points to rectify on your web page that should keep you busy. He did his in attachments, I did mine in posts. Once you get those corrected we will be glad to point out the rest. You know, it's okay to make a mistake - but to continue to misrepresent the issues on a webpage after the mistakes have been pointed out to you is ummm.....lying. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

All three stews were consulted, as well as anyone else who actually saw/noticed Cooper. All three stewardesses picked different combinations from the FBI's Facial Identification Catalog. Tina Mucklow: FIC number not known. Hair: 'Straight, narrow sideburns.' Height: 'Five ten to six feet'. Florence Schaffner: KK5-1. Hair: 'Straight, parted on the left side.' Height: 'Six feet tall.' Alice Hancock: KA3-9. Hair: 'Wavy, short, and trimmed in the back.' Height: Not given publicly. Other witnesses' comments on the hijacker: Robert Gregory: Hair: 'Marcelled'. Height: 'No more than five nine'. Cord Spreckel: 'He had a square jaw'. Age: 'About fifty'. Bill Mitchell: 'He had a saggy chin'. George Labissoniere: 'He was no older than thirty-five'. Number 1. That is not what the guy that drew the pictures says. I will listen again, but I'm pretty sure he says he talked to two stewardesses. So what source are you using for this info? I know what Gray says in his book, but honestly, I don't know if I trust that source. I think he expanded on things for literary effect and he admits that he didn't research the claims that he made about Kenny, which proved to be inaccurate, so there's that. And I don't put a lot of weight on other passenger's descriptions because they had no reason to remember Cooper and several of them seem to have changed their proximity to the event over the years. And then there's number 1.

The tie thing came about because of pictures shown of the tie clasp and the tie. Unfortunately one really cannot draw conclusions without additional info. As you point out, ckret is the one that put the clasp on the tie for photos. Other than that, he says they are stored separately. Even if one thinks they can prove something by the position of the holes on the back, there is nothing to say that this particular tie clasp made those holes or which end of the tie clasp made the holes. Furthermore, if one does not want to attach the tie to the shirt by putting it on the right side (right-handed or left-handed may utilize this fashion tip), putting it on the left side helps keep the bottom of the tie clasp from catching on the button-hole flap of the shirt. Maybe someone put the tie clasp on the right as the tie was hanging in the closet - once on the body it is now on the left. (ETA: Which is basically what happened when ckret placed the clasp on the tie) All of this has been discussed so not sure why one would continue to point to it as a relevant point of evidence - especially when it is put out there without the accompanying disclaimer/analysis. Teehee...there are just not enough rights to tie it to being left.

I'm pretty sure Jo has those answers..... Lol....That would be great as long as I can get it without the accompanying tome about Duane's lips matching the lipstick stain on John F Kennedy's collar or how Duane would smirk while making cheesecake. Sorry Jo - couldn't resist but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The composite artist Roy Rose said in an interview that DB had "sort of a protruding lip. The rest of the face was nondescript". I've been studying suspect lips. Some general questions if anyone would like to discuss Cooper.

Robert...What Mr.Shutter is saying, I believe, is about glass houses, pot meet kettle and all that..... You have recently called for sources or fact-checking on several posts. Yet we have posts like this from you....... "What Christiansen did was to take off that outside octagonal attic vent (your picture with Scott Rolle sticking his head into the hole), crawl inside, rough nail a pair of two-by's between a pair of the joists, lay the scrap Formica piece on top, cover with insulation. Why he did that I haven't a clue, but it must have been a tough job. It's located right above what used to be his bedroom." How do you know that Christiansen did this? Did Christiansen leave a diary? What is your source of proof for this? Receipts, 8 mm film, a pic of Kenny grinning as he's pounding nails? (And please don't post how so and so told you that Kenny told them that he once bought some formica at the Home Depot...it means nada) Surely the irony of you calling for source or telling people to get their facts straight is not lost on you? Many of the conclusions that you came to in your "TRUE" story of DB Cooper were sourceless and many have been debunked. The ones that had a source were just anecdotal stories from people that knew exactly what Kenny had for breakfast at 9:10 am 40 years ago. Yet you continue to peddle. Shutter is right, at some point we have to conclude that you prefer to lie. You point to Kenny's leaving money and coin collections as evidence of his involvement in a violent crime, but you fail to tell people on your website that he sold a lot of property (bought in the 60s and paid for over time via a mortgage) for a huge profit a couple of years before he died. You say Kenny bought the house in Bonney lake for cash and that (wink, wink) he only paid $10.00 to a friend of Geestman's for the adjoining lot. All of these things have clearly been shown to be unproven and some parts false. Just like Jo says she had Duane in a parachute, you attribute things to KC that you can't prove. You say the tie shows that Cooper was probably left-handed and guess what...so was Kenny. Where's your source that proves that the tie can reliably show whether Cooper was left-handed or not? A honest account would include that analysis - otherwise, a reader is led to assume it is a fact. Kenny didn't leave property to Robin and Carolyn Powell, a married couple. He left it to Robin Powell, a single man. Above are just a few examples. There are more. When you are called on these things you say it is inconsequential or doesn't matter. I say when you are peddling a book or a web page where the sole purpose is to accuse someone of a violent crime /act of terror that caused financial and psychological damage as well as the potential of death to passengers and crew, it would probably be a good thing to at least try to get the facts straight. But that's just me. This is not all about you. Who knows...maybe a twenty will turn up one day and prove the FBI wrong on Duane or KC or Barb or Ted or whoever else. You or others will have every right to serve up some crow........ But until then, believe it or not, maintaining the integrity of the info as much as we can, is important to some of us. If your conclusions or statements have been shown to be bogus then you ought to take them down. IF you care about the truth as you say. And no one should have to list them out - that is just playing games - you know what you have misrepresented as well as the rest of us. If you want to continue to be obtuse and not correct your accounts, that is certainly your prerogative. But then you don't "whine" when people continue to try to combat the myths. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

From a '96 AP article by Michael Taylor: "... Cooper told Rataczak that after the money and parachutes had been delivered, he wanted the pilot to head south from Seattle, depressurize the cabin, fly no higher than 10,000 feet, leave the landing gear down, set flaps at 15 degrees ...." The article also included some quotes of Rataczak, none of which mentioned 10,000. George Harrison's notes say basically the same as the AP article. From the tone and in comparison to other entries in the notes, this appears to be transcribing what he is hearing or has heard: 0215 - Mex. Gr dn, flaps 15, inside lites out, No landing in US, No crew aft of first class aisle curtain, aft door open, aft stair lowered in flight. 0327 - "He wants us to stay below 10,000. What about alt routing south then west" but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Thank you! I had actually downloaded that pdf before...Amazing the stuff we miss by not paying attention, huh? Cool! Have to tell you -- as someone who was only able to visit your exhibit on-line, it added to my store of Cooper knowledge and I enjoyed it. While I was at your site, I also found more interesting historical stories about your state not related to Cooper. As a history buff, I just want to say thanks for the work you do. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

For all the reasons I mentioned earlier, this makes absolutely no sense strategically or otherwise. A smart hijacker will stay the course since they haven't found him by now. A smart hijacker will not court trouble by running the risk of someone seeing him bury or throw the money into the river. A smart hijacker who has managed to lay low for almost 5 years is not going to draw attention now. The only way a plant makes sense is if you have the find planned. Otherwise why do it? Why would the bundles have to fall from the sky or float down the river individually? They could have been together until they got to Tena Bar from the air or water or even land and then all sorts of scenarios: the bag rotted, an eagle thought it was a rabbit, animals disturbed the bag trying to find food, no one has ever disproved the pipe suction dredge theory, the money could have been all together and then a flood took the bag and the rest of the money away. I live in an area that has 100 year floods about every 10 or 15 years. You would be amazed at the stuff that gets brought and then left behind when the waters recede. The money is a puzzle but any of these scenarios make more sense then a hijacker who has gotten away with it all of sudden deciding he's gonna throw em off the path. Like I said, if he was going to do that it would make a WHOLE lot more sense to do it somewhere closer to the areas that they searched. That would reinforce the speculation that he died. Yeah. The eagle did it? Look at the map. It is perfectly conceivable that Cooper may have tossed money into the river. And if he did it upriver, that puts it over the flight path. No telling where it ends up. Tina Bar maybe. But the Big Problem with this 'it got there because he died' or 'flowed downriver by natural means' is because of the condition of the find. Nine years? In the water? Or exposed to the wet weather of Washington State? Hell...that money would have been mush and the rubber bands completely gone. I think my scenario on any possible plant makes plenty of sense. The timing of it makes sense, it is a close match to why the money was in such good shape, and it gives a solid motivation on why the hijacker would do such a thing. We will have to agree to disagree on this one, I think. Yep, the eagle. Or the bear. Or ----- maybe the flippin cattle. Makes a lot more sense than a human trying to throw the FBI off of his trail by throwing it in the river and hoping it doesn't just sink to the frickin bottom. Or hoping that someone finds it how ever many years later. Or hoping that throwing it away from the search area will make them think he died...as opposed to them wondering how in the hell did the money get way over there? What''s that you are so fond of saying....Hello...is anyone in there? BTW....Where did I say that it floated down the river for nine years? I didn't. You say things like they are absolute. Like trying to tell people the Amboy chute was pristine when anyone could see that it was tattered and torn. Prove that it would be mush with rubber bands completely gone if the found bundles were buried under sand in a bag surrounded by other bundles for a good portion of that time. That's all I ask. PROVE it. And don't bring up Tom Kaye as per usual because, for all of good and welcome work, he still did not prove it either. Many of his conclusions were based on speculation. Lol, if we had buried a bundle of ones when this thread first started, we'd actually have something tangible to base our conclusions on. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

You've posted this before and as then, I'm still not sure what significance you are trying to give to the date - the date the letter was typed would have nothing to do with the date Kenny received it. Regardless of the date though, I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the letter. Take it from someone who has been to way too many corporate banquets. There is absolutely nothing strange or unusual about skipping one, regardless of air fare -- and even more especially when you don't care for the company in the first place. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

For all the reasons I mentioned earlier, this makes absolutely no sense strategically or otherwise. A smart hijacker will stay the course since they haven't found him by now. A smart hijacker will not court trouble by running the risk of someone seeing him bury or throw the money into the river. A smart hijacker who has managed to lay low for almost 5 years is not going to draw attention now. The only way a plant makes sense is if you have the find planned. Otherwise why do it? Why would the bundles have to fall from the sky or float down the river individually? They could have been together until they got to Tena Bar from the air or water or even land and then all sorts of scenarios: the bag rotted, an eagle thought it was a rabbit, animals disturbed the bag trying to find food, no one has ever disproved the pipe suction dredge theory, the money could have been all together and then a flood took the bag and the rest of the money away. I live in an area that has 100 year floods about every 10 or 15 years. You would be amazed at the stuff that gets brought and then left behind when the waters recede. The money is a puzzle but any of these scenarios make more sense then a hijacker who has gotten away with it all of sudden deciding he's gonna throw em off the path. Like I said, if he was going to do that it would make a WHOLE lot more sense to do it somewhere closer to the areas that they searched. That would reinforce the speculation that he died. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

There never was a Cooper. The crew was all in on the scam. What kind of search dogs? Those German Shepard's can be slackers. The canine equivalent of donut cops. They get treats and praise when they indicate detecting drug scents so they quickly learn the game of justifying a search of every stopped vehicle. FBI should switch to Border Collies if they want super smart hard working dogs. But there is a risk. The BCs would be tipping the ACLU on phony justifications for vehicle searches. 377 Well the dogs dont exactly have a political agenda unless its to be fed, get a few rewards and affection, and have a place to sleep where they are secure... The dogs tracked the scent straight down the stairs and out the back of the plane ... so if Cooper was pretending why was he on the stairs at all ... ? And the only place on that plane the dogs found any scent of Cooper was where he had been and straight down the stairs. No scent in the cargo hold(s) or anywhere else. Gray's book fails miserably on the story of the dogs! Here's a question for ya: were the dogs shipped back with the plane, just in case a scent match was needed (between the seat etc) and some suspect back in Washington ? Let's give Blevins and Weber a chance to invent answers - and Smokin a chance to do web searches... Glad to see you made it home from the theater.

If I didn't say it before, welcome to the forum. The problem with the money being a plant by Cooper is... what's the purpose to plant something that might or might not ever be found? And why plant it there? For all intents and purposes you have gotten away with a crime. Why draw any attention to the crime or yourself? Stay as far under the radar as you can. And if you are going to plant the money - why plant it there? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to plant it somewhere along the assumed flight path? It would be in a place where it might be expected to be - essentially erasing the question as to whether it was planted or not -- and by extension that he must have survived in order to plant it. Wouldn't it be a lot better to reinforce their suspicion that you are dead? The only rationale that I can think of for this is that the hijacker wanted to taunt the FBI with you-can't-catch-me. But then the location still doesn't make sense. Why take the chance that no one would ever dig in that exact spot? There are so many better ways to drop the money where you would know it would be found if that was the objective. The only other plant story that makes sense to me is if the adult Ingrams got possession of the money somehow and they wanted to be able to turn it in and get the value of the money or a reward without revealing the real way they came about having the money. Now that one I have to admit I've wondered about. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

The only problem I have with any of this is 1. Kenny does not fit the physical or psychological profile. 2. You have backed up none of this with any real evidence. Far from it.....Even though you ask others to "prove it", you do not offer the same. It's always wait on this or that or you don't trust the forum that you return to on a daily basis because of something that happened several years ago. Just like Jo and Marla, the Formans, et al, there's just a lot of circumstantial stories that you either can't prove or they don't hold up under close scrutiny. Where you guys always lose credibility is when you try too hard to connect the dots. Cause that's when others start shredding your "evidence". Seriously...your best bet is to just compare him to the composite drawing, leave it at that, and hope no one really starts looking into the story. Cause they all look like the composite if you squint enough.

Blevins responds: *** Even 'down but not locked' would cause the stairs to drag along the runway. Since no one has ever attempted to do this, the results would be unknown. We know the stairs dragged in Reno during landing. There is no possible way Cooper could know one way or another that dragging the stairs on takeoff might cause sufficient damage to crash the jet. Again: Because no one has tried that, before or since. Not even Air America or the CIA. During the Boeing flight tests, the stairs were lowered in-flight. Conclusion: Without a previous history of ANY 727 trying that takeoff maneuver, he was either guessing, wanted to try it anyway, or didn't really know. Smokin sez: This is incorrect. I just posted a video of an airlift that showed the 727 taxing and leaving the ground with the stairs down. If they did it then, there is ABSOLUTELY no way that you can say with certainty - as you have - that they didn't do it before. As a matter of fact, it is probably more likely than not that those doing things like airlifts and airdrops either knew it could be done or had done it before. . robert99 said: . Blevins responds: Smokin sez: Woah Nelly. The key word is FINALLY managed it. If the hijacker was wanting to jump out either before the plane left the ground or shortly thereafter (by virtue of wanting to start out with the door open), in reality the jump probably did not occur for some 40ish mins after the plane was in the air. And at least 30 mins from the time Tina saw him tying the money to his waist and joined the rest of the crew in the cockpit. As to a 24 - 36 in opening, also see video with man standing on stairs while several others are hanging on to it. I imagine the stairs would go all the way down just like in the sled test. He had the room - more than likely he had not a clue how to open the stairs. Now he might have been just twiddling his thumbs or perusing the latest issue of SkyMall, but logical conjecture says he was having plenty enough trouble getting the door open. And was likely getting more nervous as he knew that he was getting further away from where he wanted his dropzone to be - if we go with the Carr assumption that he wanted to jump pretty quickly after takeoff. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Hi CS, Though R99 might be correct that it was flown back to Seattle the next day, I don't know that I've ever seen the answer to this question anywhere. Do we have any knowledge that it went back into service immediately? The only info that I know of that might have a bearing on this is: On this forum, Ckret (Larry Carr, FBI) states that Cooper's seat was removed and sent to Quantico. The sled test was performed on Jan 6, 1972. Not saying that the plane had to be out of commission for either of these to take place - just throwing it out there fwiw. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yeah, I had just found it myself. wow. Off subject but this is a powerful video if you're interested in history...."Last to Leave, the Fall of Saigon" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuYaKVcYLyM but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Yeah, I had just found it myself. wow. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

I didn't say that the Southeast Asia 727s were "military aircraft". But they were modified by Boeing and flight tests were conducted on those modifications. That doesn't make the aircraft "military". While I have seen pictures of Air America 727s taxing with the aft stairs down, I have not seen a picture of them taking off of flying with the stairs down in the same manner they were for the FBI tests after the hijacking. However, Cooper plainly told Tina that he knew the 727 could take off with that stair down. Robert99 See Video after the story..... edited to add > this was after 71 but it's interesting video..... http://fromtheflightdeck.com/Reviews/727/World727/ ....looking for the rest of the video.... but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Whatever the hell a "post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie Imitator Movement" is, I will leave for any junior cryptologists out there to decipher.

Whatever the hell a "post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie Imitator Movement" is, I will leave for any junior cryptologists out there to decipher.

Wasn't Anderson part of the sled re-creation? Not sure if he's alive today, but this is him from {a pic posted on) Father's Day 2012. Hominid posted the pic of the crew of the recreation with there names on them. I forgot to keep that one. about a week or so ago..... His adopted Korean daughter and granddaughter are in show biz. The daughter is a comedian and granddaughter is a child actress on tv show. Cool beans.

Wasn't Anderson part of the sled re-creation? Not sure if he's alive today, but this is him from {a pic posted on) Father's Day 2012. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill