RhondaLea

yikes! I always thought that REFUSING to utter those words showed a basic denial about being a flawed human. it's the sort of statement you'd expect from megalomaniacal leadership. The most dangerous thing a leader can do is shoot from the hip with total bullshit. Saying "I don't know" without any follow-up is almost as bad. I have found that what most people like to hear is "I don't know, but I can find out, and I'll get back to you shortly." rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

QuoteWe're just sick of watching our freinds go in.Quote Don't think I'm not. But the answer to that is "don't jump" not "jump only the way I tell you to" because so far no one has hit on a sure method of depressing the fatality rate. But I can't help noticing--like it's fucking crater inside me--that all the people I find myself missing from day-to-day had plenty of experience, and it didn't change their fate one goddam bit. If I thought that giving orders would keep the people I love alive, I'd get a uniform. But it doesn't work that way. And all that ever seems to happen when we try to control others is that we suck the life out of them so that they're as good as dead anyway. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

...whatever happened to rational anarchy? My question is this: What is that odd psychological quirk that allows us to make rules for others even as we declare our personal freedom from rules? My next question is: And what's that bit about personal responsibility? The way I figure, we all have the absolute right to choose our own path through life to death. But each and every time someone elects a road that deviates from the common wisdom, all hell breaks loose. On this board, of all places. It just boggles the imagination. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

There are those who fear that Robin's relationship with Skydiving Magazine makes him a danger to their reputation. This is not true--neither Mike nor Sue would allow themselves to be used in anyone's personal vendetta--but it zips many lips. That's the problem, Jaap. Everyone wants to believe that there are two sides to a story, but there is a singular instance in which there is not. My personal experience of Robin is, in large measure, that of a charming, witty, warm, intelligent and discerning conversationalist and writer (as long as he sticks to non-fiction). He also has a nice laugh. It bugs me to say that, but fair is fair. And based on that alone--even considering the upshot of the whole thing and even though I haven't been on speaking terms with him for 7 or 8 years--I'd have sent in my hundred bucks a long time ago. Robin's history in base and in skydiving, however, is another matter altogether, and although those stories are told in different places by different people, they are all the same story--one of betrayal, small and large. In every way possible, going all the way back to his roots in the sport, Robin has betrayed the people who have called him friend. Hugs and knives-in-the-back, rl P.S. PM follows as soon as I get this cramp out of my hand. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

That is because you do not make the common mistake of equating charm, wit and intelligence with having a conscience. It's an easy trap in which to fall. Robin has many of the attributes required of a leader, but he lacks the character and substance that are required to go the distance. Unfortunately, up until now, few have learned the lessons of those who came before them, because it is human nature to blame not the perp, but the victim. Tragic, that. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

While I understand where you're coming from, I think part of the problem is sort of inverted. We have too many "leader" types. Hence the oft-quoted "herding cats" analogy. The "herding cats" analogy was applied to skydivers before base jumpers existed. And yet, skydivers, for ill or nil, have USPA. There is no doubt that USPA is flawed, but its accomplishments are many more than those for which the organization is given credit. Furthermore, said accomplishments are the result of the hard work of cats who would not be herded but who did see a need to work for the common good, "common good" being defined as "keeping skydivers jumping." So... First off, everyone needs to decide what the goal is. Then everyone needs to work toward the goal, without regard for personalities and minutia. It is not difficult to set up a non-profit foundation. It is possible to put together a group of people with a common goal and have that goal come to fruition, if everyone involved concentrates on the goal. If everyone agrees that legal access is the issue, then stop fucking around and do something positive. By this, I do not mean reverting to the 60s. The hippies did not stop the war in Vietnam, after all. It is far more likely that they helped extend it by a year or two, just because the radicals pissed off so many who otherwise would have been on their side. You cannot beat the system, so you're going to have to learn to use it if you intend to win what is a bureaucrats' game. That being said, this is my singular comment on the statement made by the Alliance: Such a bunch of self-serving, posturing bullshit I expect to find tacked into the correspondence section of a pre-litigation file, and even occasionally in a badly-written brief. In that context, it doesn't bother me in the least, because it's built into the legal system, but reading it here on this board in connection with base makes me gag. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I see, I thought it was a USPA guideline, not an FAA regulation. Do the same rules apply for visiting jumpers with rigs from other countries? I believe European and Russian jumpers can take non-TSO'd rigs to the States and jump them, right? Can this provide a loophole? Unless things have changed in the past few years, an FAA waiver is required. I don't know how anyone else does it, but DeLand has a blanket waiver to allow foreign jumpers to jump non-TSO'd gear. At a dropzone which does not possess such a waiver, the jumper would be required (I guess) to obtain one on his own behalf. Even then, the dropzone will be required to approve of and take a certain amount of responsibility for allowing the gear to be jumped. Ergo, it may not be so easy to get a strange set-up past a nervous dzo. The large dzs (Perris, DeLand, Skydive Arizona and Cross Keys) have this information at their fingertips, as do the gear manufacturers. Don't reinvent the wheel when all you need to do is call 'em and ask. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

If you decide to use your skydiving rig, get a crewdog to show you how to pack it. But be very careful. A friend used my skydiving rig once to test a base canopy, and on opening he ended up with his steering lines wrapped around the slider. Even so, that was not an issue of fitting the canopy into the rig but of his insistence on running the steering lines outside the slider grommets in spite of all good counsel that it was a RealBadIdea®. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Although this is correct, I don't really think it has any bearing on his ability as an advocate or organizer. For example, I've got no idea if Chris Needels is any good as a skydiver, or even if he's a skydiver at all. Re Chris: he is and he is. And while it is always possible that he could have a skydiving accident, such an accident will not come about because he failed to exercise good judgment. His sense of responsibility to the organization he represents is greater than that. What would you think if the American Cancer Society were run by a smoker? How about if AA and NA were led by active drinkers and junkies? Those who represent an organization have the responsibility of presenting their group in the best possible light to obtain the outcome for which that group was founded. In this case, ABP may not represent the base community as a whole, but it does certainly represent those persons who purchased memberships, however few they may be. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility? Because at the time Skin made his post, he didn't know who the culprit was. And Le Roy's post didn't contain the information in the first draft; he added it in during the edit. By that time all that got done, the thread was already off and running. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

She did everything right and she died anyway. So does that mean she was simply unlucky or that the "current advise" [sic] is wrong? No matter how you look at it, Holly jumped a bridge not a cliff, so the two cases aren't comparable, unless your point has something to do with the "women in base" issue. More than the evolution of skydiving, the underlying philosophy here is beginning to remind me of what happened when the hippies grew up, got real jobs and had kids of their own. "It was okay for me, but it's not okay for you" and "I want you to learn from my mistakes" have never been very successful in preventing the behavior you don't want to see in the next generation. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

You spelled "bears" wrong. We can discuss why your generalizations are good and mine are not another time. But that's not what she did. She was talking about her father's reaction. She made an on-topic post in the correct thread for her comment, and someone asked her about the number of jumps she has, thus taking us off on a different track altogether, which will probably force Tom to either delete all the comments or split off the thread. I had six fewer jumps than she does, and the decision about my readiness was made by someone older, wiser and more experienced than most of those who post in this forum. The "minimum number of skydives" threshold is a relatively new invention, based more, I think, on the recent influx of...I don't know what to call them...into what was once a microscopic fringe group of total loonies who, as babies, apparently never got tossed into the air quite enough by mum and dad. The evolution of base parallels that of skydiving in all its aspects. Ask someone like Skratch or Bob Sinclair if they haven't seen all of this before. Example: lo those many years ago, you couldn't jump a square unless you had at least 200 jumps. Ask C-550 or D-346 how things went when they couldn't let go of that idea. It is a force of nature that "youth is truth" and the new blood will always improve on the ideas of the fogeys who preceded them--even if the attrition rate during transition is high. You're trying to hold back the tide, but that too is the nature of the aged, who think themselves wiser because they have seen it all. I'm pretty sure I realize that skydivers with a lot of experience have much to unlearn before they can base jump without making fools of themselves (at best). On the other hand, canopy skills are a valuable survival tool, so a static line course and a bunch of low altitude jumps as preparation would get my vote as worthwhile. Do I really look like a fish to you? Contradictory, but not hypocritical, as evidenced by your post in reply to mine in the poll about splitting this forum. This is not where the wise come to learn the "right way" to base jump, eh? But I would never make the mistake of confusing what you write with what you really think. Continuing to breathe is the ultimate gauge of success, whether one attributes it to luck or skill. No argument there. rl P.S. Congratulations, Holly.

It's an artificial, random number picked out of the air, and it has led to the entry into base of people who shouldn't be jumping at all and who would never have been allowed in but for having the requisite number of jumps and sufficient dollars in the bank account. Who was it who only recently made fun of me for generalizing? (And that's a really interesting typo you have there.) Go to Bridge Day just one year and watch how many several-thousand-jump wonders have crap exits, crap openings and crap landings. In '98, I think it was, one of my friends--a guy with 3000 skydives and one each of all possible ratings--managed to embarrass himself to death (and very nearly kill himself) making his first bridge jump. He was neither unusual nor in a minority. She was judged and found not wanting by someone who has known her a lot longer than you have and who has sufficient information to determine she was ready. Furthermore, as evidenced by her post, she's not dead. Your turn. rl P.S. Apparently the assumption of who judged her ready is erroneous, but I don't think it makes a difference to either argument. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

That's just not true in all cases, no matter how many times you repeat it. I know people for whom money is not an issue. Their reasons for not having a CYPRES are not cost-related. Any base jumper could tell you that. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Historical perspective. That's just one link of hundreds. Google rec.skydiving for AAD + mandatory San Diego or Buzz SB 179 or Michael Hawkes Kevin O'Connell Ken and Barbie Set the cutoff for 1999. But be warned, the sheer volume of posts will make you wish you'd never asked. rl

Not helpful and very alienating. Their error is still your problem when they treat you as part of a whole rather than as an individual. It's either a community or it's a loose cannon. How it's perceived depends on the process of implementation. Pick one. rl

It's not that the public doesn't understand, it's that they don't care. What they do care about is that trash, property damage and dead or broken bodies are not left behind. On the other hand, if you try to define "BASE ethics" for public consumption, it's going to come out as "it's okay to break trespassing, reckless endangerment, and various other laws as long as you don't get caught." rl

I prefer uncircumcised. It's more interesting. For whoever it was who asked about a blow job, if you bathe regularly, you have a much better chance of getting sex, period, and your chances of getting a blowjob increase exponentially. If I'd had a boychild, I'd have allowed him to choose later, rather than making a decision for him at birth. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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I had a letter from Doug the other day. If you are interested in how he is or if you want to write to him or pass an message along, drop me a note. rl rhondalea@gmail.com

S'okay, Chad. You don't have to love $kin. I'll take up the slack. No charge. But this thread was headed for the Bonfire from the first post, so Tom ought to move it right now. Hugs and hobbit feet, rl

Me too. I'm with you, o mighty firewalker. Still, there are a couple of ways to generate public empathy. You can create urban folk legends. If Rudi Guiliani had had his way, Thor Alex would still be in jail. As it was, the papers turned him into "The Human Fly," and made of him a hero. The media spin made him seem exciting and exotic, thus rendering it a political faux pas to prosecute him. When he died--months later in another country--New York City took note and grieved for him. You can also play the gimp card--and that may be the better option. People love it when someone who is sick or disabled bounces back from whatever physical problems he has and performs some extraordinary feat. This kind of human interest story ignites the imagination and serves as an object lesson to anyone who says, "I can't." If you can get a handle on the press, get the media on your side, things will change. It remains to be seen if, in fact, change is good. rl

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/06/earlyshow/living/main706773.shtml I tried to be sure this hadn't already been posted. If I missed, I apologize. rl

This is not entirely true. Law enforcement officers are permitted great leeway in some areas and none in others. The same applies to prosecutors to an even greater degree. The fact of the matter is that making an arrest for an essentially victimless crime speaks to the character of the arresting officer, not to mention his boredom index on any given day. My experience is on the state level as to parks and the federal level as to...other things. I've been wanting to use this C.S. Lewis quote for days: Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I have used Jumprun and Skywriter. Both are good, so you need to look at the specific features unique to each. A few years ago, both companies offered demo software. I'm sure they still do. Try both programs, and see how you like them. My personal preference was always Jumprun, but that was more because of Anita--and the really remarkable level of support I received from her--than for any other reason, and it's not her show anymore. Jumprun does, however have a users group where registered users can discuss issues, so that might be a selling point. rl