pchapman

Similar discussions have gone on at the facebook rigging forums. Aerodyne does seem to be somewhat alive, had a small PIA booth, and some people have gotten their stuff from them.... but plenty haven't been successful in getting info or gear from them. I'm just going by memory, but I didn't think there was any magic solution about which person to call or anything like that.

"And we're back from that short break folks! .... Hello? Hello?"

Wow thanks Seth. When trying to post something concise about a complex subject, that really concentrates the mind and forces one to carefully weigh all the factors. Whether or not someone else finds it useful, it does help one's own understanding. 22 years here for me. Highlights for me have been all the technical discussions, and some about old time skydiving & gear. And all in a forum with a better interface for finding things, avoiding endless scrolling, compared to facebook or even reddit. (Even if dz also had its formatting issues, losing the old photos, etc.) Looking at posts from way back, one comes across so many names one has almost forgotten about, regular & useful posters from some particular era - I don't think I can single out just a few individuals. Too bad about all the English language forums disappearing. The Australian one disappeared, the UK one disappeared, soon this one. Funniest moment: Newbie sees someone write about reaching for grips in RW. Newbie takes it out of contest and slams the guy, telling him you should know one should NEVER reach for grips. ....The guy he criticized was a >10,000 jump Airspeed RW team member.

Here's a pic showing film cameras that were taken up on jumps in 1928 and 1932. The earlier one is a unclear on whether it is a freefall, but the 1932 one was a high altitude jump with oxygen. The photos are just what was in a book; there were probably others out there in different countries too in the same era of early solo freefalls. (Source: Le Parachute, by Borge & Viasnoff, from France, 1977. Has a lot of European stuff we don't see over here in North America.) EDIT: To translate and interpret a bit - 1928 was Heard McMillan -- presumably in England? Although the pic doesn't even show him geared up for a jump, just his camera setup. 1932 was Lola Schroeter in Germany. Jumping from 7,100 m. Says it is a 35 mm camera.... Not clear to me if that makes sense as a film camera or what. The page is about filming though (and not just photography). In any case, more digging into history would be needed to confirm just what is going on with these jumpers.

Well, what about them? If you know something from other countries, that we don't, please share. Were these just films taken in freefall, or of actual relative work? (After all, the first baton passes weren't done until, what, 1956 in France, and 1958 in Canada and then the USA.) This thread (spread out over decades) seems to have show that: - Actual videotape in freefall (of RW etc) was definitely happening occasionally by the early 1970s, maybe even late 1960s, with very large, heavy professional equipment. - Early consumer video equipment didn't exist until later, but was being used by the early 1980s when it was available. (Still bulky with the actual recorders on the chest) - Film was certainly being used in the early 1960s, when RW was getting going, often with compact gun cameras, and less compact battery packs. - Filming by a jumper during a jump was done at least as far back in WWII, based on a TV show one commenter here mentioned. I can extend the date of film during freefall back further, to the late 1920s or early 1930s. (see my next post that I'll work on) Basically, once a technology was out there, somebody did try to go jump with it.

Ok, let me dig through my AAD files for early 2011...because I'm pretty sure I downloaded whatever was linked to from this thread 13 years ago. I don't know what exactly was linked to from here, but I have a couple candidate files, uploaded here, that are both anonymous: -- One is a big attack on CYPRES. (I haven't looked at it lately but I think some of the criticism may be valid even if overdone overall. Cypres certainly had its issues in the early days, like never admitting errors unless it had to, and including a bad sensor issue or claiming you'd never be able to fire it in a swoop -- until Adrian Nicholas died.) -- One is a big attack on VIGIL. (They were having all sorts of issues & bulletins back then. ) -- I have also attached a 3rd document, one by Kirk Smith at ParaConcepts. Mostly about Argus, but also about cutter designs in general. I think that document is pretty well thought out and not a partisan attack. It also came out in that era of the AAD Wars as I call it. ( 2011 was particularly busy, judging by the number of AAD related files with a 2011 date on my hard drive.) VIGIL INCIDENTS HISTORY (Anti vigil - mostly cut from other reports).pdf CYPRES_AAD_FACT_SHEET (odd independent criticism by someone).pdf Whats Going On With AADs Kirk Smith.pdf

Indeed one can 'rules lawyer' ones way into a grey area with Cypres'. For the cutters, there has been a strict limit on age, which is 14.5 years for older Cypres' which had the 12.5 year life. From one Cypres manual: But for the 12.5 year Cypres' themselves, that lifetime is sometimes presented as a RECOMMENDATION not a REQUIREMENT. 12.5 years is just the WARRANTY period. [From an Airtec Rigging Tips publication 2014] And to reinforce that, skytribe wrote this in 2017 on this site: [I don't have proof that skytribe received this, but it sounds authentic.] Countries' regulations, even in strict countries, often just say, "You must follow what the AAD companies require"... which as one sees can be flexible. So one could argue that according to Airtec, Cypres' have no mandatory life ... but the cutters have a mandatory life! (14.5 years for older ones, 16.5 for those that come with the 15.5 year Cypres')

I have collected a big pile of old USPA Parachutist mags back into the 60s, with the help of Beatnik who has a much more complete collection (but isn't on this site much these days I think). But I'm not actively collecting; too much to skim through already and using up basement space! The thing is, some organizations finally got their archives all digitized. Which is amazing; a huge job. To refresh my own memory too: The US "Skydiving" recently went online, back to their start in 1979. (https://skydivingmagazine.org/browse-issues/ ) The Brits have had their issues online for some time, right back to 1964 ("Sport Parachutist", "Skydive the Mag") (https://britishskydiving.org/magazine-archive/ ) Lesser collections: In Canada ("Canpara") we only have the newly created digital issues, so from 2015+. (https://www.cspa.ca/en/digital-issues ) For the USPA "Parachutist" I only know of an unofficial archive of covers. (and occasionally indexes and some other lesser known old skydive mag covers) (http://manifestmaster.com/skydiver/index.html ) A very few old time "Parachutist" magazines have been uploaded in the Facebook Oldschool Skydiving forum, along with some other interesting odds & ends documents from the old days. For those who have joined that private group: (https://www.facebook.com/groups/28649069239/files/ ) Anything I'm missing?

Report back if you find out anything more interesting... I can understand the dilemma. Brake line adjustment could be a quickie fix. For a bigger canopy, being a bit out of spec on lines isn't necessarily black death dangerous. Plenty of people have flown big canopies that were out of trim a long time before anyone ever noticed or a rigger ever checked it. Still there can be a difference between a particular jumper choosing to jump an old officially-out-of-trim canopy, and having it as a club canopy where the assumption of risk & liability situation may be a bit murkier or uncomfortable. Since the canopy otherwise sounds like it is in good condition, maybe that new line set is a good solution. If you or another rigger can build one efficiently, still a relatively cheap way for the club to have a decent canopy, compared to looking for another used canopy.

The safe answer is indeed a new line set. On the other hand, it that worth it for a little-produced, little-known canopy from way back, from a company that doesn't exist any more? (Correct? Flight Concepts became Parachutes Direct which is also gone now?) Otherwise if one wants to test pilot a bit, one could start fiddling with brake settings to affect the opening. Do the brakes need to be set deeper to try to catch air more, like pulling on rears? Although if the lines out of spec are "all over", then it isn't a very consistent situation. (How far is "out of spec" for that company? Is it something that was in the manuals?) I don't like providing simplistic answers, but I kind of think providing your customer with links to facebook and dropzone gear classifieds pages may be appropriate, to find a new used main parachute at an affordable price....

Huh. Just a cheap shot but I'd say: " At Aerodyne, we value tradition and heritage. With the Pilot Classic, we've brought back one of the most memorable features of our former Tempo reserve, and added it to one of our most popular canopies. Straight -- or nearly straight -- through the sewing machine, to our customers!"

I also emailed PD to ask about the discrepancy with manuals vs. data panels, without mentioning any names, just that "some skydivers are talking about this". .... No response in over a week and a half. So they ignore ordinary jumpers too, not just Eric Fradet who is more of a pain in the ass for them! :-)

Those pics Gowler posted were either of a slider pocket that was already to be on a canopy of mine, or a slider pocket I made. (Thanks. I'm not looking up my old slider pocket posts; the question has come up a few times over the years.) The pockets shown are a bit unusual in that they just happen to be 'sewn down' across part of their width, to adjust the 'scoop' and canopy opening. Started with a big pocket; sewed down more as needed to speed up the opening again. The one on my Sabre 1 135, I don't think that one is sewn down at all! Riggerrob makes a good point about a simpler method. Or doing both front and back sails. Doing a 'proper' pocket with binding tape and ZP fabric is a bit of a pain without a proper binder setup. Since I didn't have that at times, sometimes I just sewed the binding tape to one side of the fabric as a faster option compared to actually folding it over the edge. Cruder but faster. The pocket is cut with the folded over part angling wider, when cut on the table (rather than just a big rectangle), so that when folded over it bulges to catch air better. Hope that makes sense to interpret.

Sounds like they don't want to answer except through lawyers in an actual court case! Good luck.

The data panel photo's resolution is too poor to read well. But it looks like there are multiple discrepancies / errors / typos? There's the 220 maximum (vs. 254 in the manual). I would guess the manual is correct because that's been consistent over the years, as has the web site. (I used archive.org to check the website & manual for April 2008, the date of manufacture for that canopy.) And the kg equivalent says 000? Or can't I read that right? And one of the other suggested weight levels don't match either the current manual or the one from April 2008 - the label I think says 149 lbs for Experts, while the 2008 and current manuals both say 169 lb. And the April 2008 website said 159. Of course, those are just recommendations, and not certification limits -- but still it shows some sloppiness in typing numbers in! Shrug. Give PD a call and ask what's the real value. Wonder if they'll have some original TSO paperwork they would actually share, to prove which value is correct for actual certification, 220 or 254. It would be interesting to see what a newer OP-113 says on its data panel... Lawyers like to get picky about all this kind of stuff, even if it is all in the territory of "a heavily loaded reserve and the jumper chose to use either way".