airborne47

Ok i took a look. Where does it say marriage is a right? (for any group) Perhaps you could copy and paste it!

What do you think i got off my chest in a non judgemental enviroment? I simply said i could if i want! Rather or not i do is no one elses bussiness. As i don't think what others do is my bussiness. But as i said before i'm tired of hearing everyone say they have a constitutional right to whatever they want. (the most annoying (to me) are the illegal aliens) And that is the comment i responded to which some felt to be an attack on gays.

Good to see we agree. Marriage is not a constitutional right! And making marriages illegal would certianly solve the high devoce rate! That might actually be a good idea to do away with that outdated instution! But we live in the real world and that's not going to happen. So i'm not going to jump aboard that train. And the reason i keep repeated that it's not a constitutional right is because. That's what i said originaly which got everyone so upset! Do you expect me to now say something different just because saying that upset someone? Should i now say it is? If you want to say gays not being allowed to marry is unfair. Then i would 100% AGREE!!! But so what? Since when has life been fair? What's fair about the fact that i can freely have sex with other men if i want. But people are imprisioned and put to death for it in other countries? Personally i learned a long time ago that life was unfair.

Actually Billvon replyed that it should be allowed. Page 17 down just a bit. And while my computer skills are not good enough to check. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there is some group out there that wants to do so. Are you POSITIVE that no such people exists? And if we change the laws to acomidate one group of people. Should we then deny others the same RIghts?

F.Y.I. i'm not a republican or a democrat as i refuse to blindly support a PARTY. As that gave us Hitler and Stalin and some other really nice people. But it doesn't matter what i say as you are not interested in honest discussion/debate. But simply want to make personale attacks on anyone who has an opinion different then yours. (Can we spell bigot?) And as for your pm about gay people at Snohomish So what? I don't care in the least if they know i don't believe that the word marriage should be redefined. But i do FULLY believe their HUMAN rights should be protected. Just because i do not believe that gay marriage is a Constitutional right does not make me anti gay. But of course that's a different opinion then yours and thereforth wrong! As i said at least Billivon made me think with their reasonable and respectful discussion/debate. While you are simply annoying! I am perfectly willing to discuss/debate my beliefes in a respectful manner with anyone. And if we continue to disagree i can still respect them. It is through that manner which conflict and differences are resolved. So i'm done wasting my time putting up with your petty little attacks. You don't need to pm me any more because i'll just ignore them.

AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND WELCOME HOME. As to where the insest thing comes from. If you read my earler replies you would know it's from the bible. Which i believe to be a pretty sick and twisted story. After all if god created Adam and Eve then the world came to an end. Unless something real sick and twisted went on. So i also can't stand the religiose fanatics who want to say god created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. And as far as (us) straight people. Are you just going to assume i'm straight because i don't believe the meaning of the word marriage should be redefined for the sake of a few. But that ALL people deserve respect and equale treatment? And if (some) straight people have an instution which is sacred to them. We should not try to redefine it's meaning for the sake of a few. But insteade come up with SOMETHING) which also protects the few?

Ok you wore the uniform. THANK YOU FOR THAT!! But were you a R.E.M.F. or combat arms? And as far as rights i demand for myself. I'm forty eight and still single. So obviosly i don't feel marriage is such a great instution! And if you read my earlyer replies you would know that i do not think too highly of it as an instution. (i mean really you can get married one day and devorced the next. So how sacred is that?) But i do regonize that (some people) believe it to be a sacred instution. And due to historical president they deserve to have their believes/instutions respected. And my only argument is that i do not believe gay marriage to be a constitutional right for all. So i believe both groups worthy of defending even though i don't support either. If you want to insist that it is in fact a constitutional right. Then do you also believe the Mormans were denied their constitutional rights when the government said they could not have multible wifes? Or that the father who wants to marry his really hot 18 year old daughter is being denied his constitionall right? Seriosly if you want to insist that everyone should have the same rights where do you stop? In the Phillipines the age of consent is 12 should some guy who goes there and marries a child be allowed to bring HIS WIFE to this country? Would you place any limits on people at all or simply say anyone should be allowed to do anything they want? These are seriose questions! I'm not just trying to be flipiant.

Geez you crack me up. You really do! First i'm a good ol boy. Now i'm Bubba! At least Billivon made me think with their reasonable arguments/debate. I still have my opinion but respect theirs! You on the other hand want to jump in and make personale attacks! Which is pretty easy to do. But tell me would you defend even those you disagree with? Most Veterans are familure with the saying.Although i disagree with your opinion. I would defend with my life your right to say it. Tell me do you feel the same? I know for a fact if i was going by some gay rights protest and some nutcase opened fire. I would try to help even at risk to myself rather i agreed with the people or not. Would you for a group of people with which you disagreed? Have you ever put your life on the line because you belived your country and (all) of it's people worthy of defending? Have you ever rolled in the dirt with an armed aponient who want despertly to kill you? I've been there! done that and got the tat and the scarers to show in the bars!!!!!!!!!!! So if you want to disagree with me that's fine. And if you want to insult me that's also ok. But good ol boy and Bubba are way out of line and just show how truly sorry you really are! Below is a little something i wrote years ago. A good ol boy or Bubba would defeniatly not have such feelings. (about some black kid from the hood) But what's really funny is the FACT that i would still defend you and your right to express your opinion with my life!!!!!! I REMEMBER When you were first assigned to my unit When I first met your sweet beautiful young wife And little boy How you avoided the gangs. And the drugs that surrounded you How badly you wanted your wife and son To be free of that life How you always had a smile No matter what How I trained you to be a soldier And led you How hard you tried And how well you did How I left you to carry on. When I got out How sick I felt When you were killed in action How I wished I could have been there To cover your back How guilty I felt That I was not How bad I felt for your widowed bride And fatherless son How you were a good man Husband Father And soldier How high the price is that the few pay For the many who don’t really care How I hoped you at least died like a soldier With honor Covering and saving others How I hoped you weren’t just simply shot without warning Or blown to pieces by a mine How I tried to suck it up And soldier on How the tears came anyway Despite my attempt to be strong How despite our differences You were my brother Whom I trusted and loved like no other

P.S. Dinner's done. The dishes are done and put away so it's time to go out. Have a good night!

Wow now i'm a GOOD OL BOY because i have a different opinion but respect yours! Doesn't civic have something to do with the word civil? And yet you sink to personale attacks when someone disagrees with you! That's one thing i love about your crowd. You preach respect for deversaty. And yet when someone wants to be different then you. You lose all respect and make personale attacks. And then can't understand why others don't respect your opinion! Go figure.

Ok fine i'm tired of argueing. You have your opinion and i have mine. Obviosly neither of us are going to change ours. And i think we're both fairly open minded even if we disagree. Which just goes to show how contreversial the subject is. Anyhow it's Friday night and i'm about to have dinner. Then get on my bike and go have a few beers and chase girls. And have plans for the weekend so i'm done with this debate. Take care. Peace out!!!

Well then i guess that means you do not view women as eguals. As it says ALL MEN ARE CREATED EGUAL

Ok now i get it at last!!!!! The founding fathers intentions are apsolutly meaningless as to what the U.S. Contitution means!!!!! Thank you for clarifying that for me!!!!!! Now who's being ignorant??? And as for redefining the meaning of words. I also said there should be civil unions (OR SOMETHING) I don't care if they call it the domestic partnership act or whatever. BUT LEAVE MARRIAGE ALONE!! And i never claimed straight marriage was a constitutional right just a historical norm.

First of all re read what i said. I never said interacial marriage was never illegeal. I did say i wasn't sure if it was and asked it as a question. And for the things that have been done which the founding fathers might question. That is apsolutly true but a whole different subject. And the promise of eguality for all being the bottom line is not being intalectualy honest! The argument is rather or not gay marriage is a constitutional right. And i have never read that and am sure the founding fathers would disagree! Despite langauge which promises eguality for all. We both know peoples words are often misunderstood. But i am positive that was never the intention of that document.

Ok you want to call me ignorant fine. But i'm sick of everyone saying they have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to wharever they want! The worst extmple is the press! Please show me ANYTHING in the constitution that says they have A RIGHT TO KNOW ANYTHIGN! They certainly do not have the right to know my sexuale practices! But if i get caught having sex in public they have every right to report on it. There's a world of difference between freedom of speech and a right to know. Obviosly we have different opinions. And my main argument is that i DO NOT believe marriage to be a constitutional right for all. Now you want to sit and say i'm ignorant. Then be intelectually honest and tell me. Do you seriosly believe that the founding fathers who drafted and ratified the constitution. Would suppot gay marriage as a constitutional right?????????

Well i certainly don't think i'm a bigot! But i also think there are certain things that have meaning to some people and are thereforth worthy of respect. And civil unions could do the same thing as marriage as far as ensuring rights. Which i've stated i'm all for. And marriage being between men and woman has thousands of years of history to support it. And thus give it meaning to some. My only argument and originale reply/post was to marriage being a constiturional right for all. I fully believe that is not so. And would be willing to bet the writers of the constitution did not have that in mind. And think some are simply trying to redefine the meaning of the word. I would also be opposed to parents being able to marry their adult children of the opposite sex. Even though that would be a union between men and woman. I would still think it wrong. But as i said I don't think it's any of my bussiness what adults do with one another! But that does not mean everyone else should be forced to accept it!!!

Ok i didn't know for a fact that interacial marriage was ever actually illegal. See i told you religion was messed up But i still have my opinion and you have yours. As for the race thing. I'm sure as a jumper you know that AirBorne is milatary speak for Paratrooper. And i'm proud of the fact that it was United States Paratroopers. Who helped get civil rights for all races! Dr. King had a great idea and led a great movement. But it took armed Paratroopers to actually ensure that blacks were able to go to public schools! A fact that historions seem to over look. And i would also defend gay people! But i will also defend those who have other beliefes as well. And simply think there are easyer solutions. And due to Thousands of years of history throughout the world. Those who want to keep marriage as a union between men and woman have a damn good argument. And deserve to have their beliefs respected. So the race thing is really not a good argument. After all that's fairly recent history and not world wide.

First of all i don't have a church! I think the bible is a sick and twisted story. I mean really god created Adam and Eve who had two sons. That makes it pretty obviose that incest is part of the grand design! And the guy who heard the voice of god telling him to kill his child to prove his allegiance. As i said sick and twisted!! So i'm no right wing exteamist. And i have no problem with gay people what so ever. And if you want to do away with marriage fine. I think it's a bullshit instatution as it excist anyhow. But as far as MY politicale corretness forcing others to call themselves something else. Now you're really reaching and twisting things. Men can still call themselfs FIREMEN and females can call themselfs fire fighters! No one has to change anything. And to your earlyer commment about it marriage used to be between the same races only. You are dead wrong! That (may) have been true in certain parts of this country ounce upon a time. But i don't think so. Certainly whites and blacks getting married in the good old south was not (accepted) But was interacial marriage illegale? How about whites and asians? Hispanics and blacks? As i said i don't THINK interacial marriage was ever illegale in this country. Although some were certainly not acceptable in some places. But many cultures and socities throughout history have accepted interacial marriage. How ever marriage has been a union between men and woman throughout the history of the world. And only recently have some started to redefine the meaning of the word. So as i said i don't care what adults do with other adults. And i also think it's TOTTALE BULLSHIT that someone would be denyed the right to be with their partner as they lay dieing! So im all for SOMETHING that gives gays the rights and priivalages of marriage. But i don't think trying to force others to accept redefining the meaning of the word marriage is the answer. All that is going to accomplish is to make the right wing christian types fight it that much harder. And thus keep them from getting any form of legal union. I know we are just expressing our thoughts. But as far as your comment about the government should get out of the marriage bussiness. We both know that's not going to happen. So my thoughts and ideas are more likely to get gay people the rights and privalages of marriage. While leaving that instatution to those who belive in it. So what's wrong with saying there should be some kind of legal instatution to protect gays. But those who belive in the sancturary (and holyness)of marriage should also be protected? I may disagree with the whole concept of marriage. And TOTALLY disagree with religion. But i still think those people deserve to have their instatutions and belives protected as well.

Ok obviosly nothing anyone says will change your mind. But you never answered my question. If as you say we should allow anyone to get married. Should parents be allowed to marry their children? And as far as redefining the meaning of words. (firemen) i belive female fire fighters are refered to as fire fighters!!!!!!!!!! No redefining just regonizing and accepting what they are.

You say we should allow everyone to marry. Does that mean mothers should be able to marry their sons? After all some people are into incest! It's even the grand design to some. That is if you believe god created Adam and Eve. If that's the case there is only one way that the human race was able to populate. I personally don't think that's such a great idea either! Sorry but we don't nead to redefine the meaning of words or allow anything anyone wants just to please those who want to be different. If you want to be or are somehow different and you are an adult. What you do with other adults is your bussiness. But the rest of us should not be forced to accept it as normal. And if you redefine the meaning of words to get what you want that is exactly what you are doing!!!! Rather it's redefining the meaning of words or allowing ANYONE to marry!!!!!!!!!!

It has apsolutly nothing to do with the constitution. For centuries societies throughout the world have viewed Marriage. As a union between Men and woman! Now a small percentage of the population wants to redefine the MEANING OF THE WORD!!!! I could care less if someone's gay and think they should be treated equal. And i'm all for civil unions. But not special rights! And that's exactly what it is if words are redefined for the benefit of a certain group of people.

Yeah i agree her friend (Lori) and the others did their jobs. And the powers that be used her for pure propaganda! She was no super soldier but just another inadequatly trained r.e.m.f. However she was also not in a firing position (Turret or leaning against door weapon out) Sitting in the midde of the back in a vehicle maunuvering that aggresivly her best role would have been to distrubute ammo. Which she did not do! like i said remf!!! But i really don't expect supply clerks in maintenance companies to react like COMBAT soldiers. As for being unable to clear her weapon. Again it goes back to training. Combat soldiers are far more likely to maintain their weapons then remfs! And in a dessrt enviromant that is APSOLUTLY CRITICAL!! Failure to do so is almost a gaurantee for a malfunction. And not all malfunctions are clearable simply by pulling the charging handle back. Sometimes you have to rod it. Again back to training can you spell remf. But such acttions are typical of remfs! So like i said she WAS NO SUPER SOLDIER. JUST ANOTHER REMF!! But she also was not responsiable in any way for how she was used. What really pissed me off was the same people who used her fucked her rescuers. And i gaurantee that breach of opsec (releasing the video) was NOT a milatary decision!! Ther are only two units in the U.S. Milatary which were created primarily for hostage rescue. Which is a mission they almost never do. This is not world war two you don't need a camera man with a big bulky caamera on his shoulder to get combat footage. Video of that mission would be apsolutly priceless to those units for after action review! So of course it's going to be filmed!! But is not for public disemanation!!!!! And yeah the Tillman incident was a FUCKING DISCRASE!!

Whoops!

Wow! You blame her for the media attention and false reports. As for the false repoting i can think of two names that probably had a lot more responsabialty. Cheney and Rumsfeld. Inabilaty to clear a weapon. Yep if it's not maintained and enough sand gets in it it's going to take a cleaning rod to get the bolt back. And if her weapon was cleared where was her firing port or platform? Personally i would.nt want someone sitting in the middle of the back seat in a vehicle aggresivly munaforing trying to fire! They would be far better off passing out magazines then shooting their own people because they're falling all over the place. And i would like to see you post a negative comment from her about the rescue force because i've only heard praise. WHICH WAS NOT CSAR!!!! There are only two units in the U.S. Milatary to which hostage rescue is their primary mission. And the fact that you don't know who they are speaks volumes!! SURE SHE'S NO HERO. JUST ANOTHER R.E.M.F. (REAR ECHALON MOTHER FUCKER) WHO GOT USED!!! What's new about that???

I was at a funeral of an old time skydiver who died of cancer. And they did a 20? way and released his ashes. But the coolest part of all was afterwards. One of the camera guys had his camera going as people told their stories of their memories of the man. And a little old lady (in her 70s) told of the time they did a nude night jump back in the 70s. WHILE HIGH ON MARIJUNA!! and how they had a bad spot and landed in town!!! It was a very happy and positive time as people shared their memories of the man and celabrated his life. And all captured on tape for his loved ones to be able to look at when they felt down. So i would defenitly say keep the camara running and remember the good times. AirBorne!