Robert99

Matthew, Which part of this post is your work? Robert Nicholson

Just try to hang on for another day or two. Robert Nicholson

Jo, The fastest way for you to get that article is to Goggle the "QA" number. You will probably get only one hit and that will be for the LA Times story. According to the article, which was published on Tuesday, December 14, 1971, the letter was received by them on Monday, December 13, 1971, and that it had been mailed in Seattle the previous Friday, December 10, 1971. Your explanation of how you massaged the numbers is very interesting and I will be back in a day or two with my reply to that. But don't get your hopes up. A few additional questions: 1. Do you know if Duane served in the Army and then the Navy, or was it the Navy and then the Army? 2. Do you know if Duane was drafted or volunteered for service in the Army and/or Navy? 3. Do you have any prefixes or suffixes for either the Army or Navy serial numbers? 4. What was the date given by the FBI/VA for Duane's discharge from the Army? Do you know when Duane entered the Army? 5. Do you know the dates of service for Duane in the Navy? 6. Do you know the types of Discharges, or releases from service, that Duane received from the Army and Navy? 7. Do you know if Duane had a Military Occupational Speciality (MOS) in either the Army or Navy? Robert Nicholson

Jo, Would you care to explain your hint? What do you mean "the # 7 is the QA sequencial"? Robert Nicholson Jo, You need to explain what your hint means? Otherwise, your post is meaningless. The "7698QA2753" is probably nonsense. The only place this number can be found on the Internet is in that article that appeared in the LA Times on December 14, 1971. As you have previously indicated in posts on this thread, the number "35608905" is probably Duane's Army serial number during World War II. That number may have a one or two letter prefix. Perhaps there is someone on this thread that is familiar with the Army serial number system from WW2. As you have also previously indicated, the number "283-56-96" is probably Duane's Navy serial number during WW2. Perhaps there is also someone on this thread that is familiar with the Navy serial number system from WW2 and can explain it. Of course, the above assumes that Duane served in both the Army and Navy at some point in the WW2 era. If he did serve in either the Army or Navy, you should be able to get some information from the Veterans Administration on his military service regardless of the type of discharge. As far as your hint, I see no logic involved with the number 7. Again, can you explain what you mean by that hint. Robert Nicholson

Jo, Would you care to explain your hint? What do you mean "the # 7 is the QA sequencial"? Robert Nicholson

I am not sure, but at the time Cooper made his demands, the banks were still open. Seafirst usually closed at 6PM, most branches. It's one of the reasons why a lot of people banked with them, that is, they kept long hours for a bank. I think they stored this fund at their main Seattle branch downtown, or wherever the corporate offices were located in Seattle. Probably main branch. I'm not sure how it worked at the main Seattle, but at a lot of Seafirst banks, the vault thing worked like this: The manager has a key to a door that looked like a jail cell door, i.e. bars, etc. You opened that, and then there was one, sometimes two safes in the room beyond the door. These safes were opened by combination, usually. Or a key, or maybe both, but not generally on a time lock. This is one reason why Seafirst used to get held up so much for so much money. Both Scott Scurlock and the guys who hit Seafirst for 4.4 mil took advantage of this. As I understand it, you are saying that Cooper was probably from the Seattle area and probably had an accomplice. If so, I agree with you on both counts. But are you also suggesting that Cooper was a SeaFirst Bank customer? Robert Nicholson

And how could Cooper possibly guess that this flight would have such low attendance? It was still the day before Thanksgiving. There could have been many other passengers coming into Portland from other destinations, who were on their way to Seattle. He may have just gotten lucky on that one. The idea of Seafirst being closed for Thanksgiving Day is really a non-factor. They would be open on Friday, and most branches were even open Saturdays until 1PM. None of the ransom money would be delivered or obtained by utilizing a branch manager anyway. This could only be authorized by someone at the top of the food chain at Seafirst, in coop with Donald Nyrop. It is almost certain the Seattle police, the FBI, or both, had the important phone numbers handy to contact the right people. They would have this information for any number of reasons. Fires, natural disasters, etc. If NWA was using Seafirst as their corporate bank, then they would have the contact numbers of the important people. I don't think there's much doubt on this one. It wouldn't matter whether the banks were closed or not. Seafirst did not make a habit of closing early before a holiday anyway. They were just closed on the holiday itself. For example, they were open on the Friday after Thanksgiving, and most branches were open until 1PM on Saturday. If it's true that NWA only added the Portland stop three months before the hijacking, this makes it possible the hijacker was familiar with the operation of the airline to a degree. This is not certain, but only a guess. I believe that Cooper was definitely from the Seattle area. There are many hints about it, and most of you reading this are familiar with those. His comments about Tacoma, etc. That's one. But I think one that's been overlooked is a sort of backwards hint: If Cooper were from the Seattle area, WHY didn't he pick a flight going between Seattle and Portland? Two reasons come to mind. If he worked for the airline out of Seattle, he could have been recognized by another employee, especially on an outbound flight out of Seattle. Two, maybe he understood that the money was more readily available to NWA in Seattle because they had corporate offices there, and a large payroll. There was some planning in this, and some of it looks like it came from a guy who knew a lot about NWA but hadn't used a chute in a long time. Another more obvious reason is because he had already planned to jump between Seattle and Portland, i.e. no matter what he was telling the crew about flying to Mexico City or Reno or whatever, he had absolutely no intention of remaining on board long, once he got his money. First, with all due respect to Portland, I doubt if that city could have been considered to be a major hub in 1971. Most people headed to Seattle would probably have taken a direct and non-stop flight from their point of origin if such were available. In the 1970 time frame, the airlines gave huge discounts to travelers, such as grandma and grandpa, but those discounts did not apply on holidays or during the holiday period. So strictly holiday travelers with discounted tickets would have already been in Seattle prior to Thanksgiving eve. The people who boarded in Portland paid the appropriate full fare. The bank in Seattle reportedly did have a large amount of money set aside, serial numbers recorded, and bundled in a random fashion, specifically for ransom or hi-jacking type situations. But where was this money kept? Was it in a vault with a time lock? Or did the janitor keep it in the broom closet? Before Cooper handed the note to Flo, he had seen the other people boarding in Portland as well as getting a look at those who were already on board and going to Seattle. Consequently, he knew that they were not someone that he had seen before. That meant that he could go ahead with the hi-jacking. Also, anyone in Portland who just wanted to get to Seattle for Thanksgiving could have probably driven to any area of Seattle in less than three hours. And they could have done it at their convenience, maybe even on Thanksgiving morning. Robert Nicholson

Well, if this were true, it could mean someone familiar with the day to day operations of the airline may have been involved. Just a guess, of course. In the early 1970s, the airlines put out a publication periodically that listed all the airline flights in the USA, the cities that specific flights served, the times of arrival and/or departure from each specific city, the type of aircraft used on that route, the days the flights operated, etc.. So Cooper would not need to know anything about the day to day operations of a given airline or, for that matter, anything at all about the airline itself. All Cooper would need to do is stop by a library, travel agent, an inter-city airline ticket office, or any other location that had a copy of that publication, and take a brief look at it. He could get all the information he needed in about two minutes of looking. The NWA flight was already airborne and just a few hundred miles from Portland when Cooper asked the ticket agent if it was actually a 727. The ticket agent would have known by that time if some other aircraft had been substituted for a 727. And the agent confirmed that it was a 727. Robert Nicholson

Smokin99, You have asked some good questions. Cooper's actions that day were consistently inconsistent. Cooper definitely wanted a 727 aircraft and confirmed that the inbound airliner was one by asking the ticket agent, "This is a 727 isn't it?". Cooper asked that question after he had already purchased his ticket. To me, this means that Cooper had already checked the airline schedule (the time tables and aircraft equipment were widely published in 1971) and was just confirming with the ticket agent that there had not been a substitution of other aircraft that day. Why would Cooper pick that specific flight? I believe that others on this thread have stated that NWA had only started the Portland stop on some flights from Minneapolis to Seattle about a month earlier. In that same time frame, United also operated Minneapolis to Seattle flights with a stop in Spokane. Presumably, NWA would also have some nonstop flights between Minneapolis and Spokane. Remember that things were heating up with the Alaska Pipeline work in that time frame and NWA and the other airlines in the northwest were typically loaded with people and cargo. Assuming that Cooper was from the Seattle area, it may have been that he thought there would be fewer people on the aircraft from Portland to Seattle, compared to other routes, and that would reduce the possibility of him seeing someone that he knew. It also may be that this was the only 727 going into Seattle at the desired time (but I doubt that). But the weather was definitely not what one would want and Cooper was not dressed for a night in the rain soaked woods. The relatively late hour of 3:00PM when he took over the aircraft seems to have been another factor that was a gamble. Despite all this, Cooper went ahead with the hi-jacking. To me this suggests that Cooper was desperate and, for one reason or another, the hi-jacking had to be done that day. So basically Cooper rolled the dice and lost (at least in my opinion). Robert Nicholson

377, See Tosaw's book pages 32 ff and 69 ff, possibly other pages. The statement about the rigger's card is in the second complete paragraph from the bottom of page 69. Notice the first sentence of that paragraph, just before the sentence about the rigger's card. I definitely thank the first sentence needs some clarification. Also, as a personal favor to me and others, could you get a bill through the US Congress outlawing the publication of books that don't contain indicies? It would save the human race a lot of time and frustration. Robert Nicholson Amazon and 377, I understand that each of you own jumpable NB6 chutes. I also owned an NB6 in early November 1971 (about three weeks before the hi-jacking) that was about 10-15 years old at that time. Today, I can't remember where the packing card was located although I never had any trouble finding it. I also can't remember if the shroud lines were packed horizontally or vertically at the sides of the container. I now own an NB6 container that was manufactured in 1988. This container has a pocket on each side of the upper and bottom flaps that are obviously for use with a packing tool to push the flaps into position during a repack. There are no other pockets on this container that could serve as a packing card pocket. So first, just where was the packing card pocket located on the pre-1971 NB6 chutes? Secondly, were the shroud lines in the pre-1971 chutes stowed vertically at the edges of the container? That is the way they are to be stowed in the 1988 container. Robert Nicholson

377, See Tosaw's book pages 32 ff and 69 ff, possibly other pages. The statement about the rigger's card is in the second complete paragraph from the bottom of page 69. Notice the first sentence of that paragraph, just before the sentence about the rigger's card. I definitely thank the first sentence needs some clarification. Also, as a personal favor to me and others, could you get a bill through the US Congress outlawing the publication of books that don't contain indicies? It would save the human race a lot of time and frustration. Robert Nicholson I knrew it was in a book, thanks for reminding me it was in Towsaw's. Still, is it fact or an author's flourish to spice up a story? If it's fact, it tells us a LOT about Cooper and in my opinion it tells us he was parachute savvy. No Wuffo would know about packing data cards or where to look for them in a military rig. Cooper might have been looking to see what kind of canopy was in the NB6 container. If it was a 24 ft military canopy he might have (wisely) opted for the sport rig. A 26 ft Navy conical would have been OK. A 28 ft. C9 round is a nearly ideal high speed deployment canopy and big enough to give you a chance of an injury free landing. If I thought I might be opening at speeds in excess of 150 mph I'd have picked the C9. Sport chutes of that era were actually labled with warnings not to open at speeds exceeding 150 mph. I just we had some independent verification of the packing card inspection by Cooper. Is it in a witness interview summary? 377 The information apparently came from Tina during an interview after the hi-jacking was all over. As I mentioned earlier, the sentence before the one about the rigger's card definitely needs some further explanation. However, even if Tina didn't know what a rigger's card was, and even if she had never seen a parachute before, she could easily say something like "Cooper pulled this small card out of a pocket in the parachute and looked at it". And that statement could stand on its on. Robert Nicholson

377, See Tosaw's book pages 32 ff and 69 ff, possibly other pages. The statement about the rigger's card is in the second complete paragraph from the bottom of page 69. Notice the first sentence of that paragraph, just before the sentence about the rigger's card. I definitely thank the first sentence needs some clarification. Also, as a personal favor to me and others, could you get a bill through the US Congress outlawing the publication of books that don't contain indicies? It would save the human race a lot of time and frustration. Robert Nicholson

Robt, where did you get this? Your own or from an old post of Knoss's ? Just curious. Himmelsbach may have touched on this subject. I don't remember for sure. But I would presume that the banks in Seattle would start closing no later than 4:30 PM (or whatever their usual weekday schedule closing time was). Not from Knoss. Robert Nicholson

A practice run for McCoy by somebody McCoy knew? That the two hijackings are related. I always come back to this wild idea for some inexplicable reason I cant shake. Pay no attention!

Cossey had a strong alibi. He was fully exposed. Moreover, if I understand the events/facts correctly it was Issaquah that was initially contacted, not Cossey. Issaquah then contacted Cossey. And Issaquah would never have been involved at all until a specific event happened. The chutes were originally going to come from McChord. The chutes Cossey supplied at the last moment were personal chutes he had at his home, not at Issaquah. Had Cossey not supplied his chutes there would have been additional delay ... I agree. Sheridan was not totally unique. It's possible Pete was contemplating a sport jump from a 727. He had a history of attempting creative skydives (eg homemade bat wings). Lots of people had such ideas and communicated these ideas. Hijacking airplanes had become a fact of life. It was only a matter of time until someone would combine parachuting from a plane with hijacking. The particular configuration of the 727 made that inevitable. (and some engineer had probably anticipated what some criminal might try, but nobody took it seriously until it happened). McCoy even talked about it in advance! If the main chute that Cooper took actually had the rip cord on the right side it suggests two possibilities. Tina is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper did a complete "pre-flight" of the main chute as she was standing beside him. This included checking the packing card. The first possibility is that Cooper was left handed and assumed that he was jumping either an emergency or sports chute intended for left handed people. Second, Cooper was right handed but prefered that chute to the other one for unknown reasons. If Cooper was in fact right handed, then a right side rip cord would greatly increase the possibility of a no-pull unless he had some parachuting experience. It should be remembered that in the early 1970s, there were plenty of skydivers using a right side rip cord with a belly reserve. Perhaps Cooper had seen some of those. I personally have never seen anything in the FAA regulations stating that the rip cord for emergency chutes had to be pulled only with the right hand. But I have also never seen an emergency chute (either chest, back, or seat) that wasn't set up for the rip cord to be pulled only by the right hand. Robert Nicholson

Bruce, May I add some additional insights that I have learned within the past month based on personal experience with wildfires. The time to start preparing for an emergency evacuation is about three years before the need arises. Perhaps important paperwork could be scanned onto computer disks and those disks stored in safe deposit boxes. Don't expect to get the word about an emergency evacuation before the fire gets to you. Actually, it was the smoke and ash that got to me before any word about an evacuation. Thanks to a four lane divided highway on the other side of my rear property fence, the fire trucks were able to easily maneuver on the highway to keep the fire itself about 2 to 3 hundred feet from my house (and upwind at that). However, the fire did burn some parts of the highway median and in at least one case made it across the highway into a weeded area but was contained by the fire fighters. But no one on my side of the highway lost any property to my knowledge. The moral of this story is to plan ahead. When the smoke and fire starts is much to late. Robert Nicholson

Blevins writes: I think it's time to take another break from the DZ. Mr. Blevins, You'll be back tomorrow (which is probably today). At least that is what happened the last three times you quit this list. Robert Nicholson

Blevins writes: Kenny Christiansen may or may not be Cooper, but he is a suspect. Who says KC is a suspect? Authors pushing books don't. It would take someone with a badge to do so. Robert Nicholson

We all agree now that the Cooper airplane was tracked by F-106s. And that the LaPoint aircraft by F-111s. As Farflung suggests, the F-111s could have easily come from Nellis and they wouldn't necessarily have to come from an operational squadron. The F-111s, with their changeable sweep wings, could easily stay with the 500 to 600 MPH DC-9 for its entire range and then some. All they were doing was staying back and waiting for a body to come out of the airliner. This means that within a matter of weeks after the Cooper hi-jacking the FBI had an agreement in place with the USAF, and probably the other military aviation organizations, for tracking hi-jacked aircraft. Robert Nicholson

Jo I hate to disappoint you but I know Robt99 pretty well and he is an extremely competent, highly experienced, and highly trustworthy person who I have great respect for as a person. I am speaking from experience. Whether I am taller or shorter is irrelevant. G. Georger, Thanks. The check is in the mail. Robert Nicholson

Farflung, Thanks for the information. It looks like LaPoint had exits available that would fit all possible theories. Also, maybe I can't remember what I just had for breakfast, but I think the chase aircraft were F-111s. Their use had been arranged due to their range and electronic capabilities. Robert Nicholson

Georger I love it when you are Walking Tall - that has to get someone's attention. I do NOT know who Robert 99 is - but he is a obstinate know it all who quotes what others have said in books and articles. He never admits that he could be wrong when he is only using what others have written - note I did not say researched. I had a long talk tonight with a friend in WA. and this whole group of individuals know the Plane WAS NOT West of the PDX and that the plane was EAST of I-5 and East of Vancouver. There are individuals in the Battleground, Heisson and Orchards (all over 70) who still remember the night the plane came over. The FBI tried to bury Cooper in 1980 after the money find - with the speculation the plane was on a more Westwardly route. Bury Cooper in Myths - so we can bury him forever - seemed to be the mentality of the FBI in 1980. The map this thread is using that shows the curve of the planes' route turning East just above Vancouver is wrong. That curve happened AFTER the plane crossed the Columbia. Take a piece of clear plastic and draw the marks as the come down and all of those dots. 2005, 2010 etc. Now slide that piece of plastic down on the map and you have a more accurate route. There is still something wrong with those markings after the plane crossed the Columbia because this is when the plane set course along I-5 South. I don't care who made or marked that map or what technolgy they were using - it was ONE person and that person made a mistake in some co-ordinates. One of the DZ's individuals was kind enough to send me the map use in the thread. The pilot I spoke to said there is NOT enough information in the transcripts I found and this particular map is NOT the proper map to use. Seems he has been unable to locate a 1970 navigational map used by Delta during that time period....the Navigational maps of 1968 - 1970 are the maps that need to be used. The transcipts should be used on those MAPS only. You can NOT apply information or knowledge or name changes that were transitional to the transcripts. If there are any commercial pilots out there who kept their old navigations maps of the area - we need them....these maps need to be PRE - 1970. We only need to borrow them and they will be returned un-harmed or they can be reproduced for us and shipped at my at my expense. We also need the exact trascripts between plane and communications - it is my understand that some of these communications are MISSING. Did anyone ever suspect for one moment this was deliberate? HOW many minutes are missing in the communications and what was the given location when that happened? I know Robt99 has ALL the answers. He actually has NONE...other than repeating like a parrot - what was in this book or that book. FACTS - and MAPS. This is what we need - the dead-line is just ahead of us. This will NOT continue after Nov.24 2011, so it is now or Never. Who really really wants to solve this case and/or put some of they myths in the graveyard where they belong? Pehaps the biggest clue of all is already in a graveyard in WA. Jo, Unlike you, I do know who Robert99 is. He is a fellow who dislikes to see attempts to pass off utter nonsense as facts. Here are just a select sample from your post. 1. "The FBI tried to bury Cooper in 1980 after the money find - with the speculation the airplane was on a more Westardly route. Bury Cooper in myths - so we can bury him forever - seemed to be the mentality of the FBI in 1980." In reality, in 1980 the FBI speculated that the airliner was on a more Easterly route than they originally thought in 1971. That is the direct opposite of what you are now suggesting. 2. It is a direct violation of the Federal Air Regulations for pilots to use maps that are out of date. The maps that pilots use must be valid for the day they are flying. This means that the maps the airliner's flight crew was using had to be valid on November 24, 1971. This is a simple fact known to all pilots. And these maps are changed on a regular basis which varies from 60 days to once a year. 3. If you have been paying attention to this thread over the past couple of years, then you know the problems with one specific set of the air traffic control transcripts. In fact, I think you and I have exchanged posts on this very subject. Robert99 tells me that he did not copy any of the above from books but did all the original research himself. The mystery of who is Robert99 may soon overtake the mystery of who was D. B. Cooper. Robert Nicholson

Farflung, Oddly enough, I have not been able to find a mention of the means LaPoint used to exit the Hughes DC-9. None of the articles that I can find online about that incident mention it. Regardless of the reasons, Cooper did have problems getting the stairs down. On the matter of the parachutes, pages 30-32 of Tosaw's book describes Cooper's examination of the parachutes before take off with Tina standing beside him. Tina stated that Cooper took out the packing card and examined it. She also stated that Cooper put on the military style parachute and adjusted the straps in a manner that led her to believe it was an everday occurrence for him. I don't have any personal experience using airline type Interphone systems. However, based on my personal experience in general aviation type aircraft, yelling in the face of chicks does not particularly impress them, at least in a favorable manner. I am in complete agreement with you on your last paragraph. Robert Nicholson

Farflung, You are correct, of course. Cooper did some redundant things as you say. In my humble opinion (forgive me Jo), Cooper appeared to have some specific KNOWLEDGE of the 727 systems but didn't seem to have any appreciable EXPERIENCE with those systems. At least in part, this could have been determined from the aircraft manuals as you say. But how did Cooper know that the rear stairs could be lowered in flight in the first place? As I understand it, the 727 was the only airliner in use in the USA in 1971 where that could be done. It would seem from this that Cooper had some knowledge of the Boeing/CIA/Special Operations testing and/or operations in southeast Asia. Remember that Cooper specifically asked the agent that he bought the ticket from if the inbound aircraft was a 727 and was informed that it was (no aircraft substitutions that day). Why did he ask for the landing gear to be kept down? That may have a simple answer. Perhaps Cooper felt that keeping the gear down would insure that the aircraft would be kept at a reasonably low speed. Maybe the flaps could have been retracted without him noticing it, but the sound of the landing gear going into the wheel wells would probably have gotten his attention. I don't know if any of the leading edge devices would be automatically deployed with 15 degrees of flaps. Perhaps the outboard slats would have been but I kinda doubt if the Krueger flaps would have. If I recall my days of riding as a passenger on 727s correctly, the outboard leading edge slats were the last or among the very last things to be retracted. And this didn't happen until the pilot had completed the initial climb out from the airport and was interested in increasing the speed and getting above 10,000 feet and into 250+ knot territory. This may or may not have something to do with the 170 KIAS that Cooper specified. Robert Nicholson

Farflung, the book by Tosaw discusses the interaction between Cooper and Tina in the most detail. Cooper specified that the airplane was not to be pressurized, he gave a specific flap setting and airspeed, and climb to altitude. He also said to open the stairs (to some extent) before take off. Rataczak argued with Cooper that the airplane could not taken off with the stairs even partially down. Finally, Cooper agreed to have the stairs locked up before take off. But he immediately told Tina that he knew the airliner could take off with the stairs down. When Cooper had trouble getting the stairs down, either he or the flight crew suggested leveling off at 7000 feet and slowing the airplane down. If I remember correctly, Rataczak slowed the aircraft to about 140 knots indicated airspeed. Why would Cooper have trouble lowering the stairs? The stair control panel on this specific airliner may have been different from any that Cooper had encountered before, such as in special operations. So this may have been a new panel for him and he even had trouble following Tina's instructions. Robert Nicholson