Robert99

Sailshaw, It's a relief to know that you have all the answers. Unfortunately, I don't think you understand the questions and problems. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, It is nice to know that you have many knowledgeable friends. Now let's discuss some numbers. I was unable to find any information on the Internet from the 1960s about the original Paracommander. I should note that I didn't go to Ask.com. However, in "The Complete Book of Sky Sports", 1970 edition, by Linn Emrich, page 4, it states that the Paracommander was introduced in 1964 and with "a 170 pound jumper will sink at about 15 feet per second, and glide forward at about 10 miles per hour". In addition, in "The Skydiver's Handbook", 2007 edition, by Dan Poynter and Mike Turoff, pages 270-271, states that a "PC Class Canopy" has a forward speed of 14 miles per hour. This statement apparently applies to equipment manufactured today. Also, the book states that "The Mark I PC, the first to be marketed in 1964, was far more popular than any of its successors or competitors". As a peace loving individual as I am sure you are, would you be willing to agree that a 1960s era commerically developed "sports parachute" (not a modified military surplus one) would have a forward speed of "about 10 miles per hour"? If not, where is your proof that Cooper even had access to a "sports parachute" during the hijacking? He certainly didn't jump with one so arguing about it is meaningless in any event. For your information, my parachuting experience in the early 1960s was limited to military surplus equipment with a 5-TU modification. I have never jumped a modern design, a square canopy, or even a lo-po canopy. So my parachuting experience used about the same technology as Cooper had access to. While the equipment I used had a slight forward speed, the vertical speed was considerably faster. Why don't you make a tandem jump to see what it is all about? Perhaps one of your skydiving friends could arrange it. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, As Jo has already pointed out, I am not attacking you or anyone else. While Jo and I are not related, we both seem to have inherited or otherwise acquired a low tolerance for BS. And as Georger has already pointed out, you need to answer some questions with facts. You have previously stated that you were a retired "Boring" Airplane Company engineer. Assuming you were referring to Boeing, what speciality is your engineering degree in? Do you have any experience with aircraft flight mechanics and dynamics? Do you have any experience with parachuting? Are you pushing a specific Cooper suspect or a book? Just some facts please. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, When Cooper hijacked the airplane, it was almost exactly 3:00 PM PST and he demanded that the money be ready by 5:00 PM PST. Unfortunately for your theory, sunset in Seattle that evening was about 4:45 PM. So Cooper had to know it would be after sunset before he could possibly be airborne again with the money. You apparently don't seem to understand that the weather in the Portland area at the time of the jump consisted of several cloud layers plus a complete overcast. Cooper could not see even the lights of Portland when he jumped. Regardless of the parachute's color, it would not be overly visible to anyone who happened to be on the ground and looking up. The forward speed of a 1971 era "sports parachute" was only on the order of 5 MPH. But that wouldn't be of any particular help to Cooper since he couldn't see where he would be landing in the first place. As far as landing in trees, the only thing Cooper could do is keep his feet and knees together and put his arms up to protect his face and head. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, Where are you coming from? What difference does the color of the parachute make on a dark night with several cloud layers and a total overcast? And where did you get the idea that a 1970 era sports chute had a forward speed of 14 MPH? Coming down fast and coming down slow? I think most parachutists in the early 1970s would vote for the parachute that came down "slow" or at least "slower". Have you made any jumps yourself? Only Cooper knows why he selected the NB6. Robert Nicholson

Even Lake Mead is expected to gain about 20 to 30 feet of water from this spring's snow melt. If that proves to be correct, it will probably move Lake Mead's predicted "bone dry" date from 2020 to 2021. In my area in Baja Arizona, I have recorded exactly 0.25 inches of rain since January 1st. Robert Nicholson

Georger, Sluggo has pictures of these notes on his web page. It looks like all of them were written on 2x3 or 4x6 plain paper. It also looks like someone in the cockpit did all the writing since such remarks as "Tina called" indicate that Tina did not do the writing. Could one of the other flight attendants have been in the cockpit doing the writing and talking to Tina on the intercom? Otherwise, one of the flight crew would have to do the writing. Robert Nicholson

What is "FAA Flight Plan Stationary"? Have Farflung or Robert ever seen such stationary, or anyone else, whatever Bruce is talking about? In case you forget we already had testimony on the paper Cooper used for his notes. Smith's allegation is brand new. Georger, You can Goggle "FAA Flight Plan Form" and download a copy of FAA Form 7233-1 (8-82) where the "8-82" means that the form was approved for FAA use in August 1982. For general aviation purposes, this form only has to be filed for IFR flight operations and as otherwise required. I am not aware of any reason why this form would be on a commercial airliner. The commercial airliners were formally dispatched using other forms. If you flew the airlines in the 1970s, you probably noticed that at the end of the passenger loading the gate agent or someone else would walk on board, hand a flight attendant some paperwork which she promptly took to the cockpit, then step out of the airplane and help close the cabin door. At that point, your flight was on its merry way. Robert Nicholson

As 377 asks in a post above, where did the FAA flight plan forms come from? A commerical airliner in revenue service is "dispatched" by an individual authorized by the airline to do so. A dispatcher must be FAA rated. These "small airplane FAA flight plan forms", as you call them, would have no use in normal airline service. So why were they on NWA 305 in the first place? You are right about the current flooding around Portland and Vancouver. The Columbia River's water level gage in that area is on the Vancouver side of the river and just a few hundred feet east of the Interstate 5 bridge. Yesterday afternoon, the water level was 17.2 feet (above sea level) with the flood stage being 16.0 feet. This means that the Fazio's probably have water at their doorstep. The highest elevation on the Fazio property is probably only about 20 feet. In addition, water is currently being released by the Grand Coulee dam in order to make room in their reservoir for the spring mountain snow melt. This means that the Columbia River is going to have flood conditions along its entire length. Robert Nicholson

Airtwardo, Manly Butler was the individual I talked to. This was probably in the early 1980s and the Butler Parachute Company was located at California City, CA. It has since moved to some place in Virginia. Butler did not, to my knowledge, make sports parachutes in the 1980s and apparently still doesn't. They have made emergency parachutes for specific individuals, including me, that I am aware of. They appear to have some government contracts for parachutes with military applications and these may, or may not, include emergency pilot parachutes. In any event, I was highly pleased with the parachute they made for me, and so was my rigger. On the matter of this ex-military reserve, I can't remember for sure if it had butterfly type fasteners. To many decades have gone by for me to remember all the details accurately, but you may be right on that point. On the quick release fasteners on my NB-6, they were installed with the opening facing the wearer's body which is the opposite of the installation shown in your photograph. While I have never jumped an NB-6, I don't remember any problems with the fasteners coming open during any ground, flight, or just squirming around situation in very cramped cockpits. Robert Nicholson

YIKES!!!! I never once experienced this in well over 100 jumps with reserves of that type. When I had to do a cutaway of a C9 main my belly reserve (26 ft Navy conical in an Army container) worked just fine. My D ring connectors had a very robust spring loaded clip. Hard to see how it would become disconnected accidentally, but I know you had it happen. If they were so unsafe why did the Army keep using them for decades? Usually if parachute gear was found to be unreliable, newer improved gear replaced it. Witness the evolution of Rocket Jet types to better and better canopy releases culminating in the latest Capewell types. The military doesn't seem complacent about parachute gear safety. They move slowly but they do move. Riggers, your opinion? I am not an expert on attachment hardware. 377 377, We were using WW2 surplus paratrooper reserves (where the jumper went out on a static line jump while clutching the reserve to his chest). In retrospect, the reserve fasteners did seem to have some differences with the fasteners that the manufacturer that I mentioned earlier insisted that I use. The newer hardware, which is probably the same thing that is still being used, seems to be very slightly larger, have a stronger spring as you mentioned, and there may be some differences in the "hook" part of the fastener and the tip of the gismo that the spring is attached to. I agree with you that the military services are very careful about their emergency equipment, as well as the equipment used by the standard paratroopers and the special forces types. The emergency military parachute equipment improved as fast as the speed of jet aircraft did following WW2. Robert Nicholson

I made lots of jumps with surplus belly reserves and wasn't aware of this potentially fatal problem. Which reserve fastener came loose and how? Lots of jumpers would unhook one of the chest fasteners and droop the reserve to get a better view of the target. 377 377, In my limited parachuting experience, everyone I was personally acquainted with used a 24-foot ex-military reserve that had two fasteners that connected to D rings on the harness. In addition, we always used tie down straps to keep the reserve from flapping around. These straps went through some loops on the reserve container (I think the loops were actually for hand holds while putting on the reserve) and then through the lower part of the main harness in some manner to provide a secure means to prevent the reserve from jumping around. Nevertheless, all of us (and that includes me) had numerous experiences of one of the fasteners that was connected to a D ring coming unfastened during a jump. One fellow, an experienced jumper and rigger, decided he wanted to come down on his reserve to see what it was like. So when time came to pull, he pulled the reserve ripcord instead of the main chute ripcord. As fate would have it, one of his reserve fasteners had come undone. However, there is a heavy duty strap connection in the reserve container between the two fasteners. So he proved in actual practice, that only one reserve fastener had to stay fastened for a safe descent. In any event, he was unable to fasten the other one during his descent. Robert Nicholson

Your request was probably denied because the manufacturer thought you would be better off with a harness you didn't have to be knowledgeable about to wear. Airtwardo, Thanks for the "compliment". Actually, I was talking to the owner and president of the company in question and he has plenty of parachute jumping and manufacturing experience. We discussed all the components of the specific parachute that I was interested in him working up for me. When we got to the hardware he told me up front what leg and chest fasteners he would recommend and the ones that he would not permit on his parachutes. End of fastener hardware discussion. The fasteners he insisted on are still in use today on military equipment. With the introduction of the integrated torso harnesses, the Navy's version of quick fasteners went out the window and the Navy equipment now also uses Capewell fasteners as does the equipment used by other services. If you have any experience jumping with ex-military chest reserves, you are well aware that the probability of one of the reserve's fasteners coming un-fastened is quite high in even a routine jump where the reserve is not deployed. Apparently, the fastener technology had improved enough by the time I was talking to the manufacturer so that he had a very high degree of confidence in the new fasteners and non in the older "quick release" types. Robert Nicholson

377, You are mistaken about the 1970 era NB6 parachutes having Capewell hardware. I owned an NB6 in early November 1971, the same month Cooper made his jump, and it absolutely did not have Capewell releases. I have never seen an NB8 to my knowledge but doubt if they had Capewells either. I have been told by personnel in the Portland, OR area who are experienced parachutists and riggers, that the NB6 Cooper used did not have Capewells and that the shroud lines were sewn into the risers. This means that the only connections between the canopy and the harness consisted of seperable link hardware components along the line of those shown in the lower right hand corner of page 245 of Para-Gears 2011-2012 Catalog No. 76. Basically, the only unusual hardware on the harness of NB6 parachutes in the 1970 era was "quick release" fasterners for the leg and chest straps. That type hardware is no longer used since it can be opened accidentally. Somewhere in the 1980s, I was told by a parachute manufacturer who was working up a special rig for me that he would not put such fasterners on any of his products. Robert Nicholson

According to co-pilot Bill Rataczak, Flight 305 was at least ten or more miles EAST of the Interstate 5 freeway. The Tena Bar location is maybe three miles or so WEST of the freeway. This means the money would have had to fall in such a way that it drifted at least 13-20 miles WEST of where Cooper jumped. I agree with everything you said about the money and the bag, pretty much anyway. But I favor a drift down the river (probably from Paradise Point State Park) or a deliberate trip to the river later to plant the money. Mr. Blevins, Just who did Rataczak tell that the flight was 10+ miles east of Interstate 5? Some authors and other people report that Rataczak told them otherwise. And how did Rataczak determine that his flight path was as you have claimed? Some people on this thread seem unable to understand that claims about the airliner's flight path must be backed up with facts. Times, positions, aircraft headings and speeds, and winds aloft direction and speed must be considered consistently and systematically. Claims without supporting evidence don't mean anything. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, Unfortunately for your theory, the winds aloft at the time of the jump were from the southwest, not the southeast. That is a 90 degree difference. Little details like this can derail even the most wishful theory. Robert Nicholson

Not true. A press conference was held almost immediately. Himmelsbach notified the media and invited them in with the Ingrams. Seattle was notified instantly. The media was all over the site at Tina Bar including in the air over the excavation. Where did you get the idea H witheld info ? I'm almost certain that I heard about the money find on the national television news on the evening that H. first saw one of the bills. And I lived in the Eastern time zone at that time. I think it was a Tuesday that H. first met with the Ingrams after they had found the money on a Sunday evening and then contacted the FBI after talking the matter over with friends and family on Monday. Perhaps H. didn't call the Seattle office on Monday after the first phone call from the Ingrams, but by mid-day Tuesday the Portland FBI people were digging up Tina Bar with the media all over the place. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, The maps on Sluggo's site that show flight paths came from the FBI. If those maps show two flight paths then who put those paths on those maps? FBI? Perhaps you could elaborate on what you were saying or trying to say? Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, It is obvious that you haven't considered the hijacking events in any detail and maybe not even seriously. I would suggest that you do some reading on the matter and make some effort to distinguish between "facts" and "fairey tales". You state that the FBI indicated there were two flight paths for the hijacked airliner. Simply put, the airliner could not be in two places at the same time. So which flight path is correct? How about "neither"? I believe you described yourself as a Boeing engineer in an earlier post. If that is correct, get out your calculator and see how the times and positions given on the FBI charts check out with other information. Then you may need to revise some of your ideas. The saga of "Janet" and her x-ray vision has been thoroughly discounted by everyone who has taken a look at that possibility. The human eye just simply cannot resolve things two miles away in such detail. And the fact that an overcast, yes an overcast, prevented "Janet" from seeing the airliner in the first place further complicates her claims. Finally, the only thing dumber than making a parachute landing adjacent to the Portland Airport would be to make a parachute landing on top of the Portland Office of the FBI. Sailshaw, You need to get busy. You have a lot of catching up to do. Robert Nicholson

Sailshaw, There are some problems with the above post. When the hijacked airliner was headed to Reno, there is absolutely nothing to support the idea that it passed closer than about 10 miles from Portland International Airport. In addition, there was a complete undercast below the 727 and it was impossible to visually estimate the aircraft's position with respect to Portland. About three different sources state that the crew couldn't even see ground lights in the Portland area. Further, a parachute landing adjacent to the Portland Airport is the last thing that Cooper would want to do. Today's posts about some of the radio transcripts having been "redacted" applies specifically to the Seattle Center's transcript which has plainly been sanitized. You might take a look at both the Seattle Center's transcript and the Oakland Center's transcript and you will probably agree that practically all the vital air traffic control information has been removed from the Seattle Center's transcript. Can you think of a good reason why information would be deleted from the Seattle Center's transcript? Robert Nicholson

IF the FBI had even talked to JOHN they would KNOW those answers. John was a consultant for Boeing with the ARMY FOR 6 YRS- DOES this explain the above to you? I have stated this time and time again and the FBI was told this. I have had surgery - and this is ALL I feel like saying. I have said it before - NOW the FBI needs to check their background on John and his ARMY records are something the FBI should have already checked. Jo, I trust you came through the surgery okay, but will all due respect your response doesn't explain anything. What connection did the Army have with the 727 program? Probably nothing directly. The program that used about 5 727s in southeast Asia was not an Army program in the usual sense of the word. The Army may have had knowledge of the program, but it was run by those famous Other Government Organizations. And probably only a handful of people at Boeing were aware of the southeast Asia program and nothing you have written to date indicates a connection of any kind with John. Simply having been in the Army is not good enough. Millions of other people have also been in the Army. Robert Nicholson

Jo, As has been explained on this thread any number of times, on the night of the hijacking Boeing personnel had to search for anyone who could provide information about the possible deployment of the aft stairs in flight. This means that such information was not "common knowledge". Why would the original commercial version of the 727 deploy the stairs in flight anyway? As 377 has also repeatedly pointed out, there is nothing in the aircraft handbooks related to even the accidental deployment of the stairs in flight. Consequently, the airlines and flight crews operating the 727 would not have any handbook information as to what they should do if the stairs deployed on their own. Did Duane even know how to read the wiring diagrams for the original commerical 727s? Just exactly what did John "consult" with Boeing about? Did John ever even see the blueprints for the 727 and if so for what purpose? Cooper did know that the 727 could take-off with the aft stairs unlocked and slightly down. He told Tina that despite agreeing to take-off with the stairs up to stop an argument with the crew and get the plane airborne. Again, only about 5 727s routinely deployed the aft stairs in flight in southeast Asia and those aircraft had probably had some modifications to the stairs, the control panel for the stairs, and the motors that raised and lowered the stairs. After lowering the stairs had served its purpose, the next thing is to close and lock them in the up position so that the aircraft pressure bulkhead door can be closed and the aircraft pressurized again and then climb back to its normal operating altitude. I doubt if either Duane or John had any knowledge of what unusual activities the southeast Asia 727s were involved in or had the potential to do. Robert Nicholson

I don't know how the Third Amendment, which forbids the quartering of soldiers in private homes without the owner's consent, figures into this. But there is a famous saying in the aviation industry to the effect that aircraft designers should make the first flights of the aircraft they have designed. That way, bad aircraft designs will eliminate the bad designers. The Wright Brothers were indeed self-educated in the aviation field. Nevertheless, they were still the leading designers and pilots for several years after 12-17-1903. They had several aircraft accidents including the first fatal accident in the history of heavier-than-air machines. The smart pilots, parachutists, etc. are those that learn from the mistakes of others. Of course, someone has to be the first to make a specific mistake and suffer the consequences. Robert Nicholson

In the mid to late 40's I have no idea what certificates were needed. I expect those who do NOT know need to find out what Duane's father did prior to moving to CA from OH and know who his friends where. Family friends who assisted Duane's father in his move to CA in 1943 participated in an unusual hobby. Parts for old airplanes often had to be made because of the war. If you have Duane's personal affects then you would have the proof. If he was a SM and was a Paratrooper there is a record of it. So prove your statement. I do not think you can, since I believe Duane was a two bit hood and crook, all the way to his death and conned you too. Matt Exposure to planes and knowledge of jumping can happen thru association - 1943 to 1949 - do you REALLY believe that everyone who learned to jump was in a school of some kind. What about private planes and some guys trying to makes some money and innovations. What if an Uncle or Grandparent or a Family friend has their own plane and was trained himself? What about the individuals out there trying to make a buck - this was the time of innovation and inventions? A young man who is helping the trained individuals gather up their chutes and whose family is associated with the owners of the planes. Don't any of you realize there were LOTS of young men shown how to jump - maybe on their Uncle or Fathers own farm. I have already explained how Duane knew about the 727's but NO one ever listened. Perhaps some of you along with the FBI needs to check into Duane's father and Uncle's background. Then I suggest you take it one more step forward - Duane did learn the basics during WW11 while in the service. He had the opportunity, the knowledge of the plane and enough skill to pull it off. It is all right there in the family history - but the FBI did NOT go there. They never checked out another relative of Duane's who WAS a jumper in the WAR and as the story goes used that knowledge for OTHER endeavors. Jo, With all due respect, let's get serious about a couple of things. In the WWII and following years, the only thing dumber than a self-taught parachutist would be a do-it-yourself brain surgeon. If Duane didn't have a reasonably good instructor and good equipment, there is an excellent chance that he would have suffered some kind of injuries within 5 or 10 jumps. Whatever knowledge that Duane had of the commercial 727 is irrevelant. Cooper had specific knowledge about the stairway although he reportedly had trouble lowering it, but that can easily be explained. Only about 5 727s were used by CIA front organizations in southeast Asia. And Duane, with a police and prison records, would not have a security clearance or access to how these 727s had been modified or what they were being used for. So in my opinion, it is very unlikely that Duane had any parachuting experience (Cooper probably didn't either) or that he had access to information about the 727 that Cooper definitely had. Robert Nicholson

That is logical, but it may not be what happened. Snow posted info about other successful jet skyjack jumps and at least one of the guys had no prior parachute experience as I recall. I suspect Cooper knew a lot about 727s and about parachuting too. His orders about flap angles and altitude tell me he was well informed. 377 377, Cooper's knowledge of the 727's rear stairs and the flight conditions for dropping parachutists and equipment down the rear stairs is why the initial pool of suspects in late 1971 was probably less than 500 people worldwide. If I remember correctly, about 1500 people have already confessed to being Cooper and/or been investigated as possible suspects. Robert Nicholson