Robert99

Thanks to Meux and Buff for the information. And here I go again. What follows below is derived from the best of Hammer and Tong Engineering, creative cross-plotting of questionable data, and other advanced techniques that I came across in my days as a practicing Aeronautical Engineer. So you have been warned! The only time data that can be reasonably accurate is that in the ATC transcripts related to NWA 305. I used the four times that also specified altitudes during the initial take-off and climb to 10,000 feet. Those times were plotted against altitude and the resulting manipulations resulted in a projected take-off time of 7:34 PM PST, as opposed to Sluggo's estimate of 7:33 and the FBI's estimate of 7:36. In addition, the winds aloft were estimated from the chart that depicted the original guess as to Cooper's landing zone. All of this resulted in a three segment climb to 10,000 feet with the entire climb being flown at 160 KIAS. First, the climb from the Seattle airport to 7000 feet would take 6.5 minutes and cover 16 nautical miles. The aircraft would maintain 7000 feet for 7 minutes and cover 18.5 NM. Then the climb on up to 10,000 feet would require 6 minutes and cover another 16 NM. The total time from wheels off to 10,000 feet would be 19.5 minutes and cover 50.5 NM. The end result of the above is that the climb to 7000 feet was at a rate of only about 1000 feet per minute and the climb from 7000 to 10,000 feet was at a rate of only about 500 FPM. The aircraft reported "leveling at 10,000" at about 7:53.6 PM which would be the time that it was 50.5 NM down V23. This point is about 13.5 NM north of the Malay Intersection and several NM south of the point that is labeled "1954" on the FBI charts. The distance from the 50.5 NM point to the PDX (now BTG) VORTAC is 54.5 NM and the aircraft would arrive at PDX, assuming it stayed on the centerline of V23 for the entire distance, at 8:11.8 PM PST. If this estimate is correct, then Cooper jumped within 3 NM of the PDX VORTAC assuming a jump during the time the aircraft clock showed 8:11 and assuming the clock was correct to begin with. The above was done on a conservative basis (i.e., tried to slow the airplane down) insofar as possible. There is no basis for assuming that the winds aloft were ever greater than about 30 knots at 10,000 feet, regardless of what Captain Bohan reported at 14,000 feet. While I understand the claim that Cooper jumped into a rainstorm, the weather was generally reported as good with haze and fog south of Portland and generally higher atmospheric pressure south of Seattle. Haze and fog are generally associated with relatively stable weather systems and low surface winds. To make a full disclosure here, I do not think the airliner overflew the PDX VORTAC but stayed some distance west of it to avoid flying over Portland proper. If this assumption is correct, then Cooper probably was quite near Tena Bar when he jumped. I understand that there are some strongly held opinions contradicting the above. But your comments are welcome and I look forward to seeing them. Robert Nicholson

377, georger, airtwardo, anyone else. Do you have information that can be used to estimate the climb TIME of the 727 from sea level to 10,000 feet in a standard atmosphere and in the landing gear, flap, leading edge devices, gross weight, etc., configuration that NWA had on take-off? Assume a sea level take-off and a continuous straight ahead climb to 10,000 feet. Ignore the fact that NWA 305 leveled off at 7000 feet for a minute or two. Just the climb time please. Robert

That explains those odd perforations in the Tena Bar money. 377 Does anyone have a picture or other description of the perforations or other marks that were on the Tena Bar money? Robert There are lot of Tena Bar money photos posted way back on he forum. Look at Snowmman's posts. Check this too: http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS351US351&q=db+cooper+money&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=tMsOTKXxDoPWNuCJ3esM&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDAQsAQwAw 377 377, thanks for the information. So let me see if I can get away with making a wild-eyed guess about this. Anyone needing proof that will stand up at the Supreme Court need not read further. Cooper did a belly landing on top of the money bag at about 180 MPH in a gravel pit (or at least an area that had small gravel) and the money next to the ground was compressed enough by the gravel so that it was damaged. Then for the next several years, the money stayed relatively protected from the elements in the bag and eventually found it way outside. Upon exposure to the elements, the parts of the bills that were damaged disappeared faster than the undamaged parts of the bills. That is, the most damaged parts of the bills would be the larger holes. Of course, some of the bill would probably not be damaged in the first place. Operating against the above idea is my own belief that the money didn't come from more than a few hundred feet down stream and probably not more than a couple of miles upstream at the absolute most. And that NW Lower River Road, which is built on top of a levee, is a definite obstacle to any land or water movement of the money from the east. Are there any gravel pits or areas at Tena Bar? Robert

That explains those odd perforations in the Tena Bar money. 377 Does anyone have a picture or other description of the perforations or other marks that were on the Tena Bar money? RobertQuote

The hijacking took place at 2:58 PM PST as the aircraft was taking off in Portland. So the chances of someone hearing about it at 2:30 PM are rather remote. Did Marianne also listen to the NWA company airborne and ground frequencies in Seattle? Perhaps 377's in-house advisor can elaborate on this point. Robert

What does your local in-house expert or the flight manuals say to do if the rear stairs come unlocked accidentally during high speed cruise flight?

Cooper may never have seen the specific control panel for the operation of the stairs that was on the NWA aircraft. If the stairs were going to be routinely lowered in flight, it may well have had a control panel with more capability, switches, etc.

Cooper was reportedly keeping himself out of sight in the rear part of the aircraft during most of the time it was on the ground in Seattle.

The communication transcripts are available on Sluggo's web page. Robert

First, let me say that I didn't say what these aircraft were used for in southeast Asia. That comes from other sources after the hijacking. The original article I saw was either referred to me by Sluggo or maybe I found the url on this forum (maybe from a post by you?). Anyway, I have just googled "Air America: Boeing 727s" and found an updated version of the article. The link is . The article was written by Dr. Joe F. Leeker and was last updated on June 1, 2009. It is now six pages long. Robert

There is information online listing the Air America 727s that were used in southeast Asia. And that number was only about three or four if I remember correctly. Assuming that there were other contractors who operated 727s in the same manner, the total number would be higher but there was not a great number of 727s used in this manner. In your listing of all the "possible" flight personnel who could have figured out how to jump from a 727, you would have to exclude NWA since they didn't know that the rear steps could even be lowered in flight until Boeing personnel told them. How many of the flight personnel you mentioned had even thought about lowering the steps in flight prior to the hijacking? How did Cooper know that only the rear steps on the 727 could be lowered in flight and not the steps on other aircraft such as the DC-9? According to Tosaw, Cooper told Tina Mucklow that he knew that the 727 could take off with those steps down. Cooper gave the crew specific flap settings and airspeeds. All of this "suggests" that Cooper was familiar with the 727, knew what he was talking about, and "probably" had first hand experience and knowledge on the aircraft.

Only a small number of 727s, probably less than five but almost certainly not more than 10, were used for dropping parachutists and other items prior to the hijacking. Cooper's technical knowledge of the 727 indicated that he had participated in such operations directly and had not just gained that information in hangar flying or bull sessions. The people who were conducting these operations were not known for broadcasting them far and wide. On a "need to know basis", there would only be a few people who knew the speeds and aircraft configurations that were being used. Some Boeing engineers and workers, but only a very limited number, would be aware of this since they probably designed and made modifications to the rear stairs to facilitate these operations. Tina Mucklow is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper checked the packing card and pre-flighted the back pack parachute that he took. Tina also said that Cooper was obviously experienced in putting on parachutes. But if Cooper tied the money bag to himself in the manner described in Tosaw's book, he was just plain stupid since he would probably wrap the money bag tether around himself as he tumbled, and he would have, upon leaving the aircraft.

My guess would be that less, and probably a LOT less, than 500 people who were on this planet in late 1971 would have the specific technical information on the 727 that Cooper had. Cooper probably had extensive experience in wearing parachutes but little, if any, in jumping itself.

Musika Farnsworth also has the first of a series of articles on the Cooper hijacking in the May 2010 issue of The Parachutist Magazine. Perhaps you could contact Farnsworth through that magazine and either get a back copy or a referral to where a copy of the article can be found online. Robert Nicholson