Zoltan

You might know that there are two type of canopies on the world which are similar to the PC (easter block copy). The famous Russian UT-15 which was actualy better then PC and the Polish SW-5. I jumped UT15 in Hungary this summer and it was a great canopy... i am not sure but it was not too old, max 10 years old... and as i know the russian philosophy of aviation industry this type is still under production

So you are upgrading a ZP canopy form a PD190... Why are you considering a 190 Hornet. If you were comfortable with your PD 190 than the optimal ZP canopy size for you is abou 150. Hornet is a good canopy it packs about the same size as PD Sabre, but because of the material is different the packjob is easier. Test a lot and have fun, blue skies, z

kallend, you do not have to sorry, you have right to disagree with me :) Still... the RW/FS jumps has one interesting behavior what most of the folks forget very easily... It is not about your absolute speed.. it does not metter if the formation has 100 or 140 mph fallrate (after the jump in the debrief it might be interesting information). It is about relative speed. It is about you and the formation. In the sky there is no speedmeter, you just feel it. you know it on the ground when you do dirt dive, that is it ia fast picture or slow, are the folks in the jump slow or fast. Do you need to take one tshirt over your jumpsuit or you need the use a tight and fast suit, or you might need to jump an old style RW suit. Before loading you must know if you can fly a fast body position or a bit more conservative box position or maybe a really extended super slow position. On the dirt dive you must know that you are falling like a rock so you better be close to the base, or you are slow and you should dock last. Got it? It is not about that 60 seconds.... and if you do the rest well you just simple need to brake in time before docking. As i already said.. You can show me even a super compressed 16 way with box grips where all jumpers are jumping oldschool rw suit and all are looking to the ground so floating like hell... it is still possible _NOT_ to go low :) blue skies.

"a formation that was really floating"

Brian, use booties :), it is not a a question, if you are planing to do formation skydive you must learn to control your speed with booties. The practice you do is good, but do not forget that every manouver can be done in a way to change your fall rate. Specialy turns and dockings. Going low has nothing to do with the fall rate (even if folks like to blame the fallrate instead of accepting the fact that they just went low). Going low is about "braking in time" and "flying relxed". If you have problem with dockings then you shoul fly more relaxed and break earlier. blue skies. z

Have you ever jumped same loaded Stiletto? I would be interested in the difference. Somehow i have the feeling that any ordinary elliptical canopy with new line-set and high enough wingload (1.7+) gives you rocking flares and quick turns and soft openings. The problem is that i am not convinced that these new ellipticals gives any additional value compare to my old (ie. cheap) Stiletto. Whoever i asked about improvements I received the same information :) fast turns, long flares, short recovery, soft on-heading openings... yes i get these from an old Stiletto with new line-set... But what the hack is the new... z

yes, of course you can do whatever you want with your canopy if you have enough altitude... If I test jump a new canopy me myself also doing all crazy thing to see how it reacts for various riser and togle and harnes input. But it is different then doing it in a sharp situation close to the ground... Of course if you have to... then it is a different case. But as you wrote as well, landing a fast canopy with rear risres might hurt... so i would not say that it is "must" before downsizing canopy... it is a "must" only if you want to learn high performance landing or you want to be super curent canopy pilot who is prepared for all cases :) like landing a lineovered 2.2 loaded elliptical :) blue skies z

Are you sure that before anyone decides to downsize his/her current canopy should -land with rear risers -land uphill and downhill -flare turn at least 45 degrees and stand up the landing ??? I have 1000+ jumps and downsized couple of times and still have never even considered to land with rear risers. With ZP canopies it is way to risky... it is very easy to stall the canopy with rear risres.. it is question of millimeters. It is fine for experienced canopy pilots.. but why a 500jumped young friend should land a 1.5 loaded Sabre before going to a 1.75 loaded Spectre? the other two manouvers are also more like competition swooping technics. blue skies, z

Hi, Off heading canopy deployment can be because of asymmetric opening. Let's not talk about body position and harness... only packing 1. pay attention how you roll the nose. As Alan wrote, roll the four outer cells on each side toward the center cell. Sabre packers just roll all the 9 cells to one direction (and it still does not necessarily cause off heading openings) 2. Place the nose __exactly__ in the middle. If the packing is not 100% symmetrical then one side of the canopy might inflate faster and starts to fly when the other side of the is still inflating. 3. place the slider in a correct cross... AND then pull out the slider material on the nose side... It will cause slower and more controllable openings. But the most important is the symmetry, in packing job, in harness adjustment, opening body position, riser input during the opening. If nothing helps then check your lines, first the brakes (might be twisted) and the the rests. have fun and blue skies.

fred, do not be afraid... almost all the beginner FS jumpers have the same problem. I have seen 110-130 lb hevy weight girls lurking under a 4way and i also know experienced 200-220 lb butterflies who are able to dock easily last to big ways what normally has a very low fall rate. By my opinion there is nothing to do with jumpsuit, it is all about body position and experience. There is no use of doing FS in baggy suit.. First of all it is sucks to do FS in freefly suit and vice versa :) second if you use baggy suit you will not learn that good leg and arm work which is needed for FS. If you want top slow yourself down with suit then use regular FS suit and take an extra t-shirt ... but leave your arms and legs free, you need them. So i suggest you to jump two ways with experienced FS jumpers and learn your own comfortable body position and get used to the feeling that sometimes you need to be faster or slower :) z

Hi, i made about 60 jumps with Manta. I found it a very good student canopy which opens, flies, lands safely and comfortable. It was perfect for students even if it is an old tech and the mad of F111. Only few linetwists were annoying, but it is normal if you pull immediately after exit. The opening of the Manta in my opinion strongly depends on the pack job. We used to pack on the ground and we were told to roll the nose and place the slider on the front side. If you propack the Manta this last means that you pull the slider out fully (similar if you want a Sabre to open slower). The speed of the opening depends also the size of the pilot chute and also on the speed of the freefall. Pull in relaxed body position. blue skies, z

and with these speds was the descent rate the same? z

..... AAD ..... and no more comment. z

Yeah.. I see this topic is popular :) many pros and contras. My final and very strong opinion is still that elliptical canopy for a student jumper is crazy stupid idea. An 1.1-1.2 loaded square zp canopy with few hundreds of jumps is just fine. Cheap, easy to pack and later you can sell it close to the price you buy it now. Remember that in the future you will jump only smaller canopies.. so it is useless to buy too big container. Too low wing load can dangerous since the wing profile of the canopy is not stable enough. Elliptical canopies require more experience because these canpoies are less forgiving for packing and pilot mistakes and because every mallfunction is more radical and more dangerous under an alliptical than under a squere one. Also important to note, that you look cool under a Stiletto only if it is loaded properly... if you jump an 1.2 loaded Stiletto, people will not say you are cool (if it is any important for you, be honest it is important for many of us) but they will say you are a snobish crazy idiot. And anyway.. be cool during the freefall to do great transitions in freefly, many points in a formation and keep safe under the canopy. z

There are no pros and contras of the vest and the belt... It is not a comfort issue. It is up to your body, it depends which part of your torso should be loaded more. If you have too small behind then the belt might be more optimal in order to keep you proper body position. But if it is you upper body which is too light then vest is the solution for you. I remember from the l;ast summer that in the Skydiving there was many articles about the equipments written by GK member, one was saying smart things upon weights. Find it and read it.

i don't agree fully... to jump good quality gear always means higher safety level as well even if the configuration you mention might be just fine. It is not the price you should look first but the safety and quality. I would not suggest to buy new and cool jumpsuit since a novice jumper doesn't surely know what sort of jumps he/she will do. FS or FreeFly, FreeStyle or the old school classic jumps... each requires different jumpsuit. So it is waste of money to by an RW suit if the jumper decides after 100 jumps that FS sucks and than goes freefly :) Also... novice jumpers are rarely great canopy pilots, so it is not the best idea to brake a highend expensive suit just on a bad landing out of the DZ.

To jump a stiletto with 40-50 jumps in your logbook is not only suicide but it is against the manufacturer's advice. Stiletto manual says that it is built "for extremely experienced skydivers". Consider to demo same sized Sabre and/or Spectre.