leapdog

Yeah, I know. I'm a Toad Sucker too. Who ever said the event wasn't a demo is right however there are plenty still calling it a demo. The definition seems specific to me. while it is broad in some respects it isn't in another aspect. Agree to dissagree I guess. Like I said wasn't looking for right or wrong here. Just trying to get what our industry (jump performers/demo jumpers) players thought. Good talking with you since our last time over the phone. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Yes I did answer my own question. I wrote all that to illustrate those things are normally done at drop zones. My point is this- The event in deland was not practice. Those were fun (being called demos) jumps that happened to have smoke and flags... with spectators. Thos jumps were not in preaparation for a show but were attempts with the intention of completion for people watching. BTW-Most DZs have spectators. Those are the people who come with ones who jump tandems. The missing part is that the definition says Off DZ and for spectator benefit. Niether one of those things were satisfied for the event in Deland. If a NFL team hires a jump team to land during half time. that is for spectators benfit. It is not a fund raising event. And it is off DZ. There is a difference. If an event like what happened in Deland is going to be called a demo, then the definition should be changed to include that type of show. I'm not looking to show right or wrong here or even to say the definition must be changed. The intention of the thread was to invoke a discussion. Call it seminar of sorts. We as team leaders or demo business owners (much like other industries) should have discussions in our field. Not everything should stay the same forever either, the way to move in a positive direction is to have good discussions about the world we perform in. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

While this event was not Pricapally for the benefit of the spectators ( it benefitted the museum) yes spectators were also involved and yes there was stuff going on not normally done at a drop zone. I can see your point. SO- back to the original question should the definition be changed to inlcude drop zones? Another question just to play devils advocate. If stuff at demos aren't normally done at drop zones, then how do jumpers get practice in the craft of doing demos? Some of the FAA special provisions I have recieved say that a jumper has to have jumped a flag before if they are going to do it at a demo off the DZ. How does one get a pro rating inthe first place if they don't practice these things on a drop zone? While it is unusual, it has to be done. My team and I practice at a drop zone before a show and in between to hone and refine skills or try new routines. so they are normally done at DZs as far as my team is concerned. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Just to play devils advocate, Somehting like that could be organized off the DZ. They are normally called air shows and happen for 3 days in a row. Usually lots of plane involved. So why not just all skydivers and not all air planes? I wasn't at the event so Im not sure if anyone else was allowed to jump or not. This brings up another thought. if normal DZ operations were suspended for favor of the invited only jumpers then if could be a demo much like an air show is for air planes. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Half of the price to participate in the jumps went to the museum to buy a (brick, plaque?) with a name on it. So I suppose this would qualify as a fundrasing event. Were you there and participating? Just want to qualify your statement as fact. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

I was thinking about the National Skydiving Museum event in Deland and wanted to see what some other folks thought. I have seen some banter about the event and the term demo being thrown around. I want to start the discussion with what the SIM says a Demo is. From USPA SIM section 7- A demonstration jump, also called a display or exhibition jump, is a jump at a location other than an existing drop zone done for the purpose of reward, remuneration, or promotion and principally for the benefit of spectators. One purpose of USPA is to promote successful demonstration jumps as part of an overall public relations program for the sport. fact- The event took place on a DZ. Not a location other than an existing drop zone. Deland is an existing drop zone. Not sure if it is fact- the event was a fund raiser for the museum? If the second is true by definition this wasn't a benefit to spectators it was a benefit to the museum. I have a pro rating and have been doing demos all over the south east for 4 years now. I am well aware of what a demo is and how to organize one. Maybe it would be time to update the SIM with the proper verbage if events at drop zones are going to be considered demos and the benefit is to something else other than spectators. Again I wanted to see thoughts from others. All thoughts are welcome but lets try to keep the duscussion to people with relavent experience. I also want to point out that guideline for demos are spelled out in the special provisions manual from the FAA and in section 7 subpart c and d of the sim. A jumper needs to have 50 jumps within the past 12 months and five jumps within the previous 60 days using the same model and size canopy to be used on the demonstration jump. I saw some photographs of people I recognized that hadn't jumped in two years or longer who were in the event described by some as a demo. Since the event was at a DZ the currency thing doesn't really apply except that the event was called a demo. I would like to see some thoughts on currency and its appropriateness as it pertains to a demo jump. Not a jump an a dz. Again this is just a discussion to see the thoughts of others not a bashing session and I don't expect it to turn that way. Educated thoughtful responses are what I'm looking for here. Thanks Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Thanks. People can add thoughts and pics. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

russell.elliott.muchloved.com Please pass this website on to everone. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Russell E. Elliott, 40, of Kansas City, KS passed away on May 29, 2010 due to a skydiving accident. Memorial service will be at 2:00pm on Saturday, June 5, 2010, at Chapel-Hill Butler Funeral Home in Kansas City, KS. Visitation will be held from 6:00pm to 8:00 pm on Friday, June 4, 2010. A private internment will be held at a later date. In lieu of flowers, contributions may be made to the Russell Elliott Memorial Fund, c/o UMB Bank, N.A., 1310 Carondelet Dr. Ste. 400, Kansas City, MO 64114, or the Humane Society of Greater Kansas City, 5445 Parallel Parkway, Kansas City, KS 66104. Russell was born on February 27, 1970 to Gerald and Marjorie Elliott. Born and raised in Kansas City, KS, he was a graduate of Sumner Academy, and the University of Kansas with a degree in engineering. He was preceded in death by his grandparents Dale and Lois Kendrick and Cecil and Maxine Moore. Russell is survived by his wife, Ginger and their first child expected later this summer. His parents Gerald and Marjorie Elliott of Lenexa, Kansas; sister, Diane Elliott of Lenexa, KS and her children Lauren and Dakota; Ginger’s family Larry and Carollyn Barnett of Humboldt, KS; Cathy Barnett of Kansas City, MO; Russ and Tobi Barnett and their children Sydney and Nicolas of Overland Park, KS. Also left behind to mourn Russell’s passing are numerous family members, friends and his extended family in the skydiving community. Russell had many passions in life, the biggest being his friends and family as well as his sense of adventure. Although we are deeply saddened that our time with him was too short, we are grateful for the time we had. It was full of laughter, joy and love and for that we are forever grateful. (Condolences are at www.chapelhill-butler.com). Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

A while back USPA had falcon and eagle and double eagle for RW and a 3D award for Free flying. (maybe more) And of course the CRW awards. When USPA announced that they were canceling the awards everyone in CRW was "give it to us we'll take over the program and keep crw awards going". There was a back and forth and USPA ended up keeping the awards going for CRW. Just because stickers and patches aren't available doesn't mean that the program is done it just means that you can't buy a patch or a sticker. They don't and have never, from what I know, given them away like they do 12 hour badges and 1,000 jump wings. Remember this- you got in on a 4 stack and if you keep going probably bigger. No one will ever be able to take that away from you. Even if you can't show it off on your jump suit or gear bag. You still have the certificate and can keep that in your log book to show other jumpers. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

I wasn't at the dinner after the WR, so I have no memory of that. The WR had many competitors, but not every nation was well-represented by its competitors. Consider Egypt, they probably didn't care about a WAG then, but they would now. I can tell you the WAG in Spain in 2001, was very well-attended. Eleven nations competed in CF? Have to look that one up for an accurate count. WAG's get more corporate sponsorship, provide a greater venue for our sport to be shown, including TV. One of the major reasons to have it outside the US is because TV is more willing to show skydiving there than they are here. It might get picked up here, afterward. If the World stage is bigger, is it ultimately better for our sport? Don't know, but it ain't getting better with what we are doing now. Competition CF is really struggling in the US, if it wasn't, this wouldn't be an issue. Two large, well-known teams missing the Nationals would be okay, but not in the state we are in. My worry, if Clean Air and Redline are not there, and only one other team shows- the Wisconsin gang. No meet for rotes, sequential, 8way. Could get two way done if they have two camera people. But the next BOD meeting, CF is on the chopping block! top So you are speaking for Clean Air and they are showing up this year? My team and the WI team is showing so there is two. But if the dates change and we are put out finacially then your purpose is defeated. Nothing the world stage has done has helped us at home. If it had then we wouldn't be in trouble. Focus here, not there. From what you write they seem to be doing just fine and don't need your help. Who else went to the WAG from the US in the last 5 years. I know one- Clean Air and that was two way. SO obviously no one in CRW cares about the WAG. This is in response to your other post- I have tried to be about a diplomatic as I know how to this point. Are the dates already changed? So far the statement May be changed is has been made not they are changed and I have not seen a solid "this is the new date" from someone that has authority to do so. Also we are talking about 2010 not 1999 there are a whole new set of competitors now aside from Red Line and Clean Air. Obviously someone who is not competeing shouldn't care less when the dates are. The audacity is shocking to me that a peer/ fellow competitor is stating the "dates are changing" as if the competition was being run by them. That needs to come from the meet director and the competition commitee. So far this proposition that has been issued has not been well recieved. Other competitors are stating funds changing reservation fees, vacation days alreay submitted ect. If one team doesn't get to go to nationals because he dates get changed and you do how is that helping? Thisis assuking of course that history will repeat itself and Clean air will not be there on an off year. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Hey leapdog, your recollection of last year is a little weak. Redline intended to do 8way, but two of our team members were killed on a practice jump a month prior, so we opted out. We intended to do 2way and pro-am. Sorry, we didn't stick around for the 2way, but we had a team member (and her husband) who had to get home for some much need rest and healing (one was injured in 4way). We "care" about all the events, and have been supporting the nationals for twenty years. To answer everyone's question about this air show. It is not a "demo" in the normal sense. It is a large international air show that the FAI and IPC are hoping to have host a World Air Games in the future. Since they have not had CF performed much there, they would like to see it at the air show by people that may attend the WAG and decide if it would be something to have. Ultimately, this is up to the meet director, Bill Wenger, and the comp committee. I am trying to get feedback from competitors who may be affected by these changes and minimize the effects. top Yes, that's right. last year is coming back to me more clearly. Thanks for the clarity on the purpose for being in China. So here is a more direct question- Why should the CRW competition community care about the world air games? If we are haivng trouble keeping it alive in the US for comp, (thus being the reason for the date change) then we should be focusing on that and not the air games that seemingly no one shows to. IF my memory would not fail me again, after the world record at the "formal" dinner I remember the question being asked what the interest for CRW was for games. The answer was very little. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Todd- The competion community and I think Larry Bagely is the USPA people who are ultimately charge. user name Sedwick- * edited to say* Good question. What is the intent of these two teams at nationals that they want to attend both events. What events will they support. Last year neither cared about 8 way and only one supported Pro-am. I only remember one of the teams supporting 2 way sequential open also. The dates being moved or not still allow for both 4 way events to be attended. As said before, more clarity form these teams is needed. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

I have a team and I plan to be at nationals- Sorry for the long post. PR for our sport where? in China? Will we recruit the chinese to move to the US and become CRW jumpers and eventually U.S. national comptetitors? Not very likely. The gerneral chinese public doesn't care about skydiving in the US. Hell the average public in the U.S. don't care about skydiving in the U.S. How does PR in CHina help us here in the U.S. We as a community should support each other. However, the concern is how many of us will have to sacrafic something for it though when the glory of such an invite will not actually be felt by all who may directly or indirectly give something for the effort. What stands to be gained in the US for going to showcase CF in China? Will we grow CF here by going to China? The original post sounds like a demo personally but I have been wrong in the past too. I do demos and usually those are paid. [edit] no one started doing CF as a rsult of a demo I did [edit] I do remember nationals being temoprarily on hold for a demo in the recent past [edit] Eloy [edit]. Not very well recieved but not vocally protested either. Examining this further, if I had a high profile demo and it conflicted with nationals I don't think USPA would even consider changing the nationals CF schedule to accomodate me. I would have to make a choice for one or the other. Small fish in a large pond so to speak. So is it really fair to ask USPA to change the national schedule because someone else may be larger fish when they typically don't show at nationals on an off year? Or even for someone who does? I don't have the answers and not trying to provide any. Just the question does beg to be asked why the special consideration? Last year there were was small worry that there was not enough teams for 2 way. There ended up being five. Same with Pro-am. Not sure as my memory isn't up yet but Red line didn't compete in every event and 4 way CRW still survived at nationals. Now I'm not saying they aren't needed but one would have to ask themselves when put in the same situation, is it morally right to ask USPA for special consideration when no one else would get a second glance if they asked for the same? As I said before I hope the decision is made quickly so we can all move on with our travel plans for nationals without spending too much, fees, or losing reservations. Just so I'm clear, The reason I mention that the international airshow sounds like a demo event is that I can't imagine that someone would travel all the way around the world from the east coast or half way from California and not get paid to demonstrate CF. Most certainly the travel to get there is being paid for. That is a lot of money to pay out of pocket to jump for free. I'm confident in saying that no one cares if someone from CRW gets to go get a huge paycheck and then still come to nationals to mop up the gold. If the dates line up then go do it by all means and congrats on being asked. However, it sounds like you are asking all of us to say have your cake and eat it too, its ok. If nationals is that important then come to nationals and skip china. Skydiving was ok before [edit] the international airshow [edit] this event and it will be ok after. Perhaps Someone from Red Line or Clean Air can clear [edit] the whole demo thing [edit] that up for us before the whole community throws thier hand in the air in fustration. I want a reason to support our friends. I do also want nationals to go on the orginal dates so I don't have to change my reservations either. Or perhaps they all would be willing to pay the fees associated with having to change reservations. IF it is that important to change nationals for an international airshow. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

So when will we know if the dates have actually changes and that is solid with no more changes? Some of us have already reserved lodging and need to take advantage of cheap plane tickets by getting them earlier than later. Can USPA decide and decide fast and then stick with it? The concern is that another team, based on the change and if the change comes too slow, won't be able to make it. That would be self defeating for the reason of the change in the first place. Just trading one team for another. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Did a search and didn't find anything on this. Does anyone know if lenses between nikon D series cameras are interchangeable? I have a D40 and I am looking at a D80 but what I found doesn't come with lenses. Cheaper that way. so I want to put the d40 lenses on the D80. Thanks Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Thank you for the explaination. Understandable. BTW- Personally I'm not angry. I don't have enough energy for that during competition. Thanks again for the response. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Anything and everything on the web are bonus points. There is no obligation to put anything on the web. OmniSkore! did it for years because it was part of the system. OmniSkore! posts each score as soon as the judges confirm it. I'll bet the next time you see Camscore it will post automatically too. The live feed is GREAT, but I'm sure it cost Spaceland a pretty penny. There were a few glitches with audio and cuing up dives, but for the first attempt you really cannot complain. . This is not a vent, rant, or bark- Simply making an observation. if it seems harsh I apologize. I'm very good at gettign my point across sometimes. Camescore is a great system. With my boots on the ground so to speak I am getting round score posts very quickly. the team video person is having a very easy time of getting video to the judges, ect. Love it. Also all the people that make nationals happen are great and they bust thier ass and listen to competitors whine about trival things. They do a job that most won't. I respect them. Even though camscore is a new system and still has bugs in it, yes you can complain. As a competitor, I saw RW was treated as if it were the olympics of skydiving while I, a CRW competitor have to update on my own to people who want to know about CRW because whom ever was in charge of updating on the web abandoned it afgter RW was over. It is not because camescore is a new system and it is not USPA or spaceland or that Omniskore had been around longer or was designed differntly. I am in technology as a callege major and for a living. If someone can make update regularly when RW is going on they can do it for all the other events. We are all jump competitors and we all deserve the same treatment. Usually when I post I get barked at. If you feel like wasteing your time barking at me on line then go ahead. It won't change anything and I don't really care. Thanks for reading. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Got a link to the post? Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Thanks. even though it was really the answer to my question, the info was still somewhat helpful. I'll reprhase. How can I get my Nikon D40 outfitted with a bit switch? Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Where can I get a LANC port installed on my Nikon D 40? I'm looking to use a bite switch with it. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Do you mind sharing your find with the rest of us?? Won't be much help, you have to be law enforcement or military. I'm Military. This however, might be of use. http://www.flyfirebird.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/41/products_id/390 Yes they are foriegn, but if you plan enough ahead you can get them in time. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Yeah- those are minimum 100 qty purchase. Thanks eveyone for the help. I found a supplier that will sell one at a time. M18 style too. Only 30 second burn but we do parabatics so we don't really need 60 sec or longer since we aren't in the air that long. if we need a longer burn time then we can fire more than one. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

Thanks. BTW needs to be less than 100.00 usd. itis only one show i don't realy need a a whole case. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker