Anachronist

That would be cool, but I would put serious cash on it never happening, each manufacturer would need a demo fleet which no one has. Wicked's arsenal only goes up to the S-Bird and every manufacturer I've contacted (Squirrel, Tony, and Phoenix) about a big suit demo has responded with "we really don't have any demos." With a manufacturer that will remain unnamed, I eventually got them to agree to send me a big suit "demo" but it came with "don't tell anyone we did this, we don't want people thinking we give out demos" and a whole slew of stipulations causing me to decline the offer and purchase from a different manufacturer. (Those involved I'm sure know what I'm talking about). Regardless of being a much smaller market, much smaller companies, and having to have several different sizes of each suit; it would be really nice for the wingsuit companies to follow the lead of the canopy manufacturers and have a demo program for people looking to purchase. Wicked's rental fleet is nice but essentially stops at the S-Bird and only represents one manufacturer. I'm not suggesting a "rental" fleet but rather a "demo" fleet, i.e. one to two weekend demos for $50 or something, just enough to fly the suit, not 1 month for $200+ (e.g. Wicked).

If you have been mostly flocking then I would just stick with the Havoc for now and get used to "maxing the crap" out of it. Only move up to a bigger suit when you are getting consistent and even boring results from the suit you already know. A smaller suit makes you really work for it and feel what every part of your body is doing. When you get to the bigger ones a lot of that becomes a more blended feeling and you won't know what subtle changes to make to get the most out of it. This is the best advice on the thread. Adding to it, get so comfortable being unstable, that it feels impossible to actually be unstable. The transition to big suits is more about stability. If you can control the suit you can learn to fly it, and the best way to learn to control it is when it is unstable. Make intentionally sloppy rolls and front flips and then fix them, get so use to it that it becomes boring. Too much arm pressure why? Because you don't like it or because you can't control it? Or because you are too weak to pull? If you don't like it... too bad, everything is going to have higher wing pressure than the Havok (I know, I put over 200 jumps on one), welcome to big suits. If it is because you can't control it... then do that stuff I just said, until there is zero question about you fixing any instability on your Havok in just a second or two. Also the maxing it out thing I quoted, that also makes the suit more sensitive, which all big suits will be, it will help you get use to making smaller inputs. If it is because you are too weak... exercise, this is a sport that can kill you and requires a certain degree of fitness and athleticism to participate in reasonably. Some of the famous short and fat wingsuiters can make up for that lack of fitness with an incredible amount of experience. But you can choose, make thousands(literally) of jumps, or build up your muscles and lose weight. #realtalk, not trying to be a dick.

http://wilson.med.harvard.edu/nb204/AuthorityAndAmericanUsage.pdf This is relevant, you should read it all (you will be a better person for it), but the politically correct stuff starts toward the end. This trend is part of the evolution of dealing with a problem, it is both inevitable and necessary. Much like the anti-establishment and hippie movements of the 60's and 70's were necessary to develop a sense of government mistrust. This sort over reaction is part of dealing with social issues of race and gender. The hippies didn't win, but I think influenced our culture for the better (anyone who doesn't have a bit a mistrust for the government is a fool) and confronting race/gender issues is something we have to do, the super-pussies won't win, but they will force everyone else to address the issue. If you are going to really look at something, you have to do so from every angle, all extremes and a moderate view. This is just an example of one extreme, and it is college students (extreme political views are kinda their thing).

I can see the appeal of "doing more with less" kind of thing. Are there any other advantages or is the start different/better in some instances? Like are there any exits where a ws is feasible but a tracksuit is a better choice? (not where a ws is just a bad idea, e.g. high ultimate) I agree, big track suits for skydiving are just silly. I can see some use for them but it quickly turns into "just put on a ws." (not counting practicing for BASE or just doing it because someone likes it of course).

Just out of curiosity, since I don't BASE, I'm under the impression tracking suits are, while fun, more of a "let me get some separation from this object kind of thing." When they get so big and efficient that they are in the beginner/intermediate WS range, why not just wear a WS? Seems like if you want to fly that hard and far then the WS would be a better gear choice. Like why build a crazy fast go-cart when you can just take an ok car and go much faster/farther? I'm being genuine in my question, not trolling, I honestly don't know and would like to hear the reasoning if there is one from BASE folks.

They are different. I'm no free fly expert (I suck actually) but have a couple tunnel hours and have farted around with free flying in the sky. The tunnel requires a lot more precision, if you move a couple inches in any direction you know it (and you have to stop it), you also have to maintain constant speed. In the sky you might be sliding 10ft or more going from your back to a sit or any other transition and not even realize it or sliding in any direction at a couple mph, your vertical speed can also change a lot without you noticing. I've known several people (myself included) that can sit in the sky but not in the tunnel, same for head down. Known a few very skilled free flyers that had a hard time transitioning those skills to the tunnel as well because the sky is much more forgiving. Watch some non-pro free fly vids and pretend they are in a tunnel, pay attention to the people relative to each other, in the tunnel they would be slamming into the walls and net constantly. But yes, the rig makes some difference, and the tunnel doesn't teach you exits, flying relative to each other more than a few feet away, or with much vertical separation, i.e. chasing someone. (at least without being a tunnel pro and using the whole thing like they do). As far as what you learn faster in (e.g. "I can do x, y, z now") That is just variable from person to person. Either way, if you learn something in the tunnel or the sky, it will take a little practice (or a lot) to make it work in the other one too. There isn't a completely direct translation from one to the other, they supplement each other. Just from personal experience, I had the opposite experience from what you described. I could do 4 way and turn points on my back really well but can't hold a sit for long in the tunnel and it sucks pretty bad in the sky too. Everyone is different.

I agree about the EP's but... It looks like a dummy gun used for training, not a plastic toy, they can weigh 5+ lbs, rock hard, and sometimes are real metal guns that have been rendered inoperable and coated in rubber. He also had to ditch it just to execute EP's properly not because of an extremely rare and life threatening malfunction (i.e. camera helmet entanglement/chop). Holding a prop in your hand is not comparable to a camera helmet in terms of 1: probability of dropping it, or 2: in comparing potential damage to it hitting someone or something on the ground.

Haha, you clearly have no experience (and way too much faith) in the American judicial system/ American public To be clear, what you said is the right idea, but the execution is usually a joke, partly because no one defines "expert" it is up to each side to convince the court their person is indeed an "expert" they can be paid, and jurys are usually pretty stupid. Also thanks for the update LowDuck.

One of two things happened, both equally probable. First, it was a quasi-setup and he intended to sue before he made it to the ground; or he is really just that stupid and completely incompetent. The fact he landed on the DZ after "being unconscious" for so long is very fishy, but remotely possible. At any rate, what we can learn from this is student gear needs to be in tip top shape, not just good shape, or in a condition any of us would jump, it needs to be in the best shape possible, better than most sport rigs. When I was a student and before I got my own rig I jumped some worn out rigs with old leg strap PC velcro, main and reserve bottom tabs that wouldn't stay closed in freefall, and badly faded and frayed cordura. I've jumped a student rig with the AAD control panel tacked in place with thread because the clear window had split open, etc etc etc. All airworthy and I would happily jump any of those rigs again. But they look sketch to an untrained eye, and the judge and jury are the untrained eyes that matter. Students and inexperienced jumpers are the most likely to sue because they understand so little and have to put so much faith in other people telling them what to do, so people providing them gear need to make sure there is nothing about it that could be called into question, even if it is entirely cosmetic. Also, "twatwaffle" is the funniest insult I've heard in a while, thanks for that whoever posted it

Yeah, it's all relative as said before. Hopefully with the more you learn the more you will realize how much you don't know, for thousands of jumps to come. To be stable and comfortable you have to jump regularly, no matter your experience. Jump numbers are deceiving, but in general, 100 jumps is basic minimal competency, 200-300 and ok, you're a skydiver, but you don't know s**t. Think of an A and B licenses as demonstrating minimal competency to begin training with people who aren't AFF instructors. Get canopy coaching as soon as you can, and plan on getting it again in the future, even if you don't want to swoop. Right now as far as canopy stuff goes, focus on accurate landings and solid patterns, that's it. Don't worry about riser input, the pressure is so freakin high and the response so slow on 200+sqft canopies that it is really kind of pointless. Try it, so you know what they do, but it isn't something you should focus on, it won't be something you have any real use for for quite some time, it is only to teach you the basics of how the canopy responds. At this point risers are a basic training exercise, not a meaningful/useful skill (except in the extreme off chance you have to land with you rears). A canopy course will teach you this stuff and give you a good foundation to use when you start downsizing. As far as free fall, stable belly position, speeding up, slowing down, making precise 90/180/360 turns, and tracking. Don't fuss with flips and rolls except to practice getting stable after executing them. If you have the money go to a tunnel and let the instructors teach you what they want to teach you. It takes a long time to "get good." As mentioned earlier, if you don't jump much you will always be rusty, even after hundreds of jumps and several years in the sport. IMHO, bare minimum to maintain reasonable proficiency is about 50 a year, but 100 is much much better, say a "practical minimum."

For the love of God, don't jump with potentially lethal props (i.e. if the dummy rifle hit someone on the ground). Yes people have jumped with chairs and kayaks and real guns and all that stuff, as organized stunts in the middle of nowhere. Try and imagine the fallout if it landed on a road, much less hit a car, much less hit a person, much less killed said person. You have to anticipate that whatever you jump with you will lose on exit and it will land in the worst possible place. This guy deserves the dumb f**k award, he also fought the line twists way too long, so maybe an oak leaf cluster too. Based on his chin strap beard and apparent lack of appreciation of how bad he f**ked up, I'm willing to put money on him being involved in a serious incident/possible fatality within a few years.

I've heard more stories about new tunnels that fell through than there are tunnels in the US. Until the structure is going up it is all hot air.

Exactly, night jumps are sketch, introduces erroneous risk as some sort of "training." It is a symptom of archaic thinking and is basically sanctioned hazing by the USPA. There is never a reason to do one unless you just want to for fun (by all means, help yourself) and does nothing for training.

This is a good point, same suit, different fit (mine is a smidge snug) and you get a completely different handle situation. Must suck for the designers "we made this one PERFECT!" someone else tries it on "oh wait... nevermind"

So here are some photos of my Havok hooked up and on. I apologize for the quality, I have a crappy phone, but you get the idea. It is very hard to get my handles anywhere near the hole in any position. When I sat down I tried with both hands to force the reserve handle into the hole (in every way possible, pulling on the suit, the harness, and the handle) and could only get the bottom corner to go in, it was still easy to grab and when I stood up it popped out. This to me is about as non-handle swallowing as you can ask for. (I recognize no two suits, rigs, or people fit exactly the same.) Crouching like an exit http://postimg.org/image/kcauc53i1/full/ Sitting 1 http://postimg.org/image/pdi8diayh/full/ Sitting 2 http://postimg.org/image/7yy058dtl/full/ Standing 1 http://postimg.org/image/of1vb7xmh/full/ Standing 2 http://s12.postimg.org/yb2yav3el/Standing_2.jpg Tried to shove the handle in with both hands while sitting http://s12.postimg.org/y9t0hg1kt/Tried_to_shove_it_in_the_hole.jpg That said, I have seen first hand a Ghost's over the shoulder zipper fail in flight at the front (where the start is) and run completely to the back (where the stop is). I've also heard of it happening to others. In the one I saw, it was on the right arm and the pilot was able to pitch without a huge problem, but it was sketchy, on a very large suit it would be infinitely more sketch. Why this happens I'm not sure, I just wanted to point out that even this system is not "perfect." I would be ok with an over the shoulder cable system but yeah, those cables that go all the way up the wing are a pain.

"This mod" meaning a cable system? Or the Spectra system you're talking about? If it's a cable system, that's great; I'll have it put on my next purchase. He means nipping the pull tabs off and putting some line on the sliders. For people completely devoid of any mechanical inclination I guess. I think you're right, he has a hard on for Squirrel and a bit of personal experience bias. "This worked for me so it is perfect for everyone and can't fail" kind of thing.

This guy's hard on for his locking zippers is making me awful tempted to give it a try The issue I see though is that you're potentially putting a lot of force on just a few teeth, over and over and over. Which could break them, cause the lock to fail, make the whole zipper in need of repair. The locking mechanism (at least what can be seen) is also thinner than a paperclip, and I'm pretty confident it isn't made from tool steel, so again, putting a lot of force on a probably kinda flimsy mechanism. I've seen plenty of zippers (sliders, teeth, pull tabs) break on jumpsuits and a couple on wingsuits, so my confidence in there structural integrity under stress has been reduced. There is also the sensitivity of the locking mechanism, just the slightest little tug on the spectra and the lock disengages. All of those are why I consider it a "mediocre fix/improvement."

Just to clarify, the spectra thing he is talking about does immobilize the sliders. Squirrel (not sure who else does or doesn't) uses locking sliders, replacing the pull tab with spectra locks them in place unless you pull on the spectra. Basically they are so sensitive that any motion of the metal pull tab will disengage them, the spectra is less inclined to. They are also directional, they only prevent unzipping. A mediocre "fix/improvement" in my book. https://squirrel.ws/public/Squirrel_Innie_Outie_System.pdf Starts on page 4.

Oh yeah, I see what you are saying. On the Havok and P3 I jumped the openings were nowhere near that close to handles though. Lots of variation in flyer and harness dimensions. Will post some pics if I get a chance.

Yeah, the innie-outie system is gonna have to go (all of them), hopefully before someone pounds in with video where it is apparent what happened. The PF over the shoulder zips for the P3/Ghost/Havok pretty much made handle swallowing impossible (assuming the suit was a remotely close fit) I'm not playing favorites, the PF leg and body zips are utterly retarded. I get that the proxy flyers (the ones who actually have any business doing it, which is a tiny fraction of the ones who are) say the suits fly better over the harness. Fair enough, but that means every suit with an innie outie system has a significant compromise to benefit less than 1% of all wingsuit flyers. Seems kinda silly. Maybe make a "all purpose" version, without the innie-outie, then make a "Super Elite Dick Hardening BASE" version and charge a extra $100. Or charge $100 more for the all purpose one, you'll sell more of those anyway, and I'd pay $100 to have a better system for skydiving on my C2. Fortunately I haven't had the handle swallowing issue, I think correct rigging and playing around with it helps, but it is still an issue for others, and I'm not particularly fond of having the zippers ride up and stop when they meet the bottom of my handles, even if they haven't gotten sucked in... yet.

I've had consistent and recent experience with L&B that is quite the contrary. They are a little slow (like 48 hours tops) and very brief responding to emails, I imagine high maintenance customers will have a bit of a challenge dealing with that, but they always respond and always have followed through for me. They had a big press release announcing when they would no longer service the dytter and pro-dytter It even says they no longer service them on their website http://www.l-and-b.dk/products/repair). And as for the "it costs too much" and "I break mine too much" I don't know man, that sucks I guess. #I'm not sponsored, just giving my 2 cents.

(congrats) These are just the nuts and bolts. Focus on canopy and belly skills. Most people get hurt under canopy and it is a relatively neglected skill, but vitally important. If you can afford/have access to canopy coaching then do it. For freefall you are building muscle memory and reflex memory. You want to be able to fly without thinking about what you have to do. You are also building your knowledge, personal experience, and situational awareness. The best bang for your buck is a wind tunnel, but it isn't a substitution for actual jumping, a combination of the two is good (if it is one or the other, chose jumping). Have fun, jump with other people, and focus on becoming a great belly flyer and canopy pilot, both will serve you immensely in the future (wingsuit included). Tracking jumps are fun and helpful to grasp some very basic wingsuit concepts but don't bother doing a bunch of them unless you just really enjoy it. If you do 50 tracking jumps it won't make wingsuiting any easier than doing 5 or 10. Hop and pops are better than nothing but won't teach you much about freefall, don't be one of those guys who does 100 hop and pops to boost their numbers and learns very little in the process. As for coaching, make sure they are qualified, in most cases that means they are an AFF instructor or some other professional skydiver. The USPA coach rating is a joke, I know because I had one. Get coaching from someone who is a pro, not a fun jumper with a rating. (If other people aren't paying for their instruction, you shouldn't either.) Did I mention have fun? It's the journey, not the destination.

Cookie Fuel is comfortable, a very nice helmet. (cutaway is unnecessary, but if it is more comfortable or makes you feel better, then go for it) It will serve you a long time. Viso 2 is very nice. Will also serve you a long time. Stay away from custom free-fly suits unless you just like burning money. Get something used and cheap and jump that until you don't need to ask other people what you are looking for. They are highly tailored not only in fit but also performance and flying preference. In the position you are in, it would be like buying a bespoke Armani suit to go for a job interview at McDonalds.

Was the one wearing an open face using a mic? How did that work out?

I can second the Firebolt and Saber2. The Pilot is very tame, I've jumped a 168 at a 1.5 WL and could barely make it turn with harness input. I love the canopy, just doesn't sound what you are looking for. Remember not to change size and canopy type at the same time ;) Demo 170's first.