Auryn

Dude! I've had that happen, twice. Both times on the reserve. I let the cat out one night after that, and didn't let it back in. This is a better idea FFR.

I placed an order for a replacement cutaway handle for a Wings container (no, I didn't lose the original in a cutaway, I lost it on the DZ somewhere) on Monday midday, the 17th. It just arrived approximately 48 hours later, for no express shipping charges. Kudos to para-gear for a job well done.

"drier air found in many other parts of the country" try Minnesota on March 15th 2008. The air was so dry I could not breathe, function etc in the lack of humidity here. If someone were to ask me to pack a canopy in these conditions, I would simply refuse. (keep in mind, in MN the season opens right about now) There is a HUGE difference that humidity makes when packing. so, this leads me to a bigger question. Are the canopy misters that I hear about at Perris real? if so, I might personally spend the money to get them installed at my home DZ in OH. It can get just as bitchingly dry there as anywhere else. But I digress, are the canopy misters real at Perris? Gotta Know, Gotta Know. Bryan

This rings VERY true. If you want to learn, you have to show it. Spending a total of 6 hours sober/day/weekend is not the way to do it. Early and Late in the day is the time to get into the game. Often, early/late loads are literally LOOKING for people to get on them, make them fly, etc. Get there early, get on first load.. let the instructors, packers, manifestors, DZOs etc. do their jobs during midday, and in the afternoon, stay sober! You WILL find a jump to get on. And perhaps a gorgeous sunset to boot! The experienced people KNOW who's out there that want it. It may not seem like it at times, but they do. Blue skies!

So, with the Catapult, why DOUBLE the chance of a horseshoe on your reserve with 2 PCs? I don't see any logic to it.. if you have a horseshoe on the first PC, the second may save you. However, if you have a horseshoe on the second PC (the one closest to you on the bridle) you/re going to have the problem of the tension of the first PC on your rig (essentially a reserve PC in tow). If you can show me a comprehensive list of catapult saves, I might sign onto the "innovation". I personally don't call it that. I firmly believe in the "KISS" system. "Keep It Simple, Stupid." give me 1 reserve pc, a long bridle and a good launch. This system has saved WAY more many lives than the "catapult". We all face the chance of a bounce on a horseshoe mal, whether it be with the main, the reserve w/ 1 pc or the reserve w/ 2 PCs. The solution is really quite simple: breakoff high enough that you know you can get into a perfectly stable position. if you can't do that, then the higher breakoff will give you more time to fix your problem. follow EPs, as you were taught. land, jump, repeat. I don't think a second, or third, PC will give me any advantage, the same way I don't think a tertiary canopy will increase my safety margin. Do what you're taught, when you're taught to do it, and you'll be at the highest chance of survival in the sport. there is NOTHING that will make it 100 percent survivable, and in the case of the catapult, I think it makes it worse. 2 PCs, double the chance of entanglement. Im hoping to finish my rigger's ticket this summer, and if/when I do, I will not pack a reflex with a catapult.

Hi Nick Is this the exclusion for USPA member liability still valid ? Did USPA ever raise the policy limits?, I'm guessing it used to be something like $20-$50K . Barely enough back in the day to pay for damage to some DZ property. Like a old cessna 180. ***USPA third-party liability insurance Third-party liability insurance comes with membership. All USPA individual members, regular or temporary, have coverage for property damage and bodily injury liability insurance. The third-party liability insurance does not cover medical benefits to the member. This insurance is valid for skydives made in accordance with USPA's Basic Safety Requirements and the Federal Aviation Regulations. Most drop zones assure that jumpers have this type of insurance by requiring current USPA membership to jump there. All claims must be brought in the U.S. or Canada. To report a claim, call (866) 585-4590.

Hi Nick Is this the exclusion for USPA member liability still valid ? Did USPA ever raise the policy limits?, I'm guessing it used to be something like $20-$50K . Barely enough back in the day to pay for damage to some DZ property. Like a old cessna 180. ***USPA third-party liability insurance Third-party liability insurance comes with membership. All USPA individual members, regular or temporary, have coverage for property damage and bodily injury liability insurance. The third-party liability insurance does not cover medical benefits to the member. This insurance is valid for skydives made in accordance with USPA's Basic Safety Requirements and the Federal Aviation Regulations. Most drop zones assure that jumpers have this type of insurance by requiring current USPA membership to jump there. All claims must be brought in the U.S. or Canada. To report a claim, call (866) 585-4590. R.I.P. you're 100 percent right. All I've ever seen from their insurance is 3rd party liability claims. Such as when a cutaway baglock goes through somone's windshield that was driving down the road. Or when a lost altimeter goes through their house. Or when I go in through their house. It's all 3rd party, it does not benefit me DIRECTLY. However, it does save me from the liability of a lawsuit. Hence the term LIABILITY insurance.. It's just like liability insurance on your car. Neither you nor the other driver sees the money (third party) but the damages get fixed.

Can you point to that FAR? Dave I think that getting an FAR that specifically mentions us would be cost prohibitive. Think in lines of the cost of a TSO cerification. we still benefit however, it's just what should be considered a general rule. If everyone needs an official designation as a pedestrian in the sky, then let them pay the fees associated with such, just like traffic laws. I'd still pay it, whether it be 10 times the current rate or not.

[/email] If you are speaking about airspace over your DZ there is nothing that keeps anyone from flying over your DZ. What more does anyone expect USPA to do? We have liability insurance, a voice to government that allows us "self-regulation". How much more does anyone want? I've NEVER been prevented from climbing onto a plane with the intent of jumping out of it. As far as I'm concerned, that means the USPA is doing its job. Not only that, but they've put procedures into place that during the course of over 400 jumps I've only had to divert a load ONCE because of aircraft traffic. If the concern isn't one of cost, then what concern do we have? I've already admitted that the magazine sucks. What's left that they can provide, outside our ability to participate in our sport in the first place? Nice chocolates on our seats? And pilots that violate opening airspace despite repeated warnings, [NOTAMS] can have repercussions. attached is an example of a part 91 lawsuit. Dammit, I don't know how to make an attachment such as this. If you research part 91 lawsuits you'll quickly find that part 91 operations do have rights.

The keyword in your post is the word "active." There are a lot of people who's living depends on the health of the skydivng industry. Yet, they're silent. If my professional living depended on the health of the industry, I'd be right on the front line promoting it. So, let me be such. I plan on working in the industry next year and I want it to be healthy, exciting and fun.

I know very well that I'm opening myself up to flames by posting this, but bring it on! I started skydiving in 1998. I've had several long layoffs because of serious back problems (I had the entire T sections of my spine fused) but have been very involved in the sport for the last 4 years, both jumping and working in. So, I see a lot of people bitch about the USPA and bitch about the cost of jumps. I'm an economist by trade (degree from UNC Chapel Hill) and here's what I see. since 1998, when jump tickets were 18 dollars, I've seen jump tickets go to 22 dollars. This increase is still LESS than average inflation (3% a year), despite MASSIVE increases in gas prices. (in 2000 I could get a gallon of gas in NC for 79 cents). Also in 1998 a 20 ounce Coke was 89 cents, now it's 1.29. The price of USPA membership has increased by a MUCH SMALLER factor. And yet, I still see people bitch and moan, not seeing the forest from the trees. Here's what we really get from the USPA: We get a shitty self promoting magazine (minimum value 30 dollars per year, in comparison to other limited market magazines) However, here's what our membership REALLY gets us, magazine be damned. We get legal representation that allows us to be the "pedestrians of the sky" and have the legal right-of-way of such. I've personally been involved in turning in several tail numbers of space violating aircraft, and they do get reprecussions. We also get the liability insurance that protects us from lawsuits such as when a cutaway bag lock goes through some driver's windshield. Or when a lost altimeter goes through someone's roof. Or when we have a double mal and go in through someone's roof, 2nd floor, 1st floor, and end up splattered in their basement. These services are priceless for those of us that have something to lose. So, I'll keep on paying my $4.17 per month liability insurance (Excluding all other service of the USPA). BTW, I think the reason that you don't hear more about this line of reasoning is that most skydivers that have something to lose simply don't have the time to post it. Since I'm on holiday break, I do. Flame On

[reply I know most of them and the RD too. The biggest problem is they are ex military but not really. They have never really got out. That’s ok too, cause without people like that the army would not have people to brainwash. Your attitude regarding this is simply incorrect. I've seen military style training during my time at Raeford NC where they launched a good number of military sorties. Above mentioned people at above mentioned drop zone handle things differently. They handle them as ANY professionals would handle them. I was a corporate trainer for a fortune 500 company for several years, I know what professional is. This DZ and these people do exactly that- they're true professionals. Not just by our (skydivers') standards, but by the rest of the world's standards. Since they are our customers that keep the plane flying, why not cater to them?

It looks like the camera man goes head down at first, but at the end of the video you can see him/her roll back to belly. At this point the camera man and the victim jumper are well above everyone else in the skydive that tracked away (who, if they're any good, should track at less than normal freefall speed anyway). I'd bet that the camera person went to their back during the questionable part of the video, not head down. Most camera guys I know don't know how to fly head-down in camera wings anyway (which I bet he had, filming 4 way)

Check this CRAZY video for your answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddYYoHhzjA The video shows the reality fairly well. When the malfunction is a horseshoe, the victim jumper is still at the same fall rate as the other jumpers. Once the PC is out, he slows down noticably. I don't understand the argument re: this question "the more informed you are, the better jumper you are" The reality is that you need very little information in this situation. All you need to know is that if you don't do something, you will die. This can apply to every single skydive you make: if you don't do something, you will die. (some may argue that your cypres will save you, but you still have to do something IE turn it on, in order to not die)

Hell Ya

Amen! I am getting VERY TIRED of hearing people bitch about USPA that don't get involved to try and change things. Every USPA official I've met (RDs and NDs) genuinely cares about what they are doing. I'm also really getting tired of people not factoring in the liability insurance that's included with USPA membership when they bitch about the cost. I'll gladly pay 50 dollars a year (that's a massive 4.17 a month) to have that insurance, for times such as when a cutaway baglock goes through someone driving down the highway's windshield and almost kills them, which I've also personally seen.

Not necessarily. A lot of people have gone in while thnking TOO MUCH about what happened. If you have altitude (I had a PC in tow on a 3k hop-n-pop and knew I had time because I wasn't at terminal) If you're at terminal, you have 6 or so seconds per 1k feet to think about all this extra 'data' and it could easily kill you. This sport is very simple in a lot of respects. Do what you're trained to do from day one. It isn't a safe sport; things you were originally taught to do might kill you. BUT, there are a lot more dead bodies that DIDN'T do what training taught them than bodies from doing everything right.

I agree with Bill Von 100 percent on this. I personally self check my main pin once I get into position on jump run and I know to never let my rig touch anything between the last check and exit. If you were to, on your own accord, mess with my rig without saying anything I'd insist on rechecking it before exit, potentially causing a go around. However, you can verbalize your concerns with either yelling my name and telling me that something happened or yell "GEAR CHECK" I've been in your exact position, more or less. We were on jump run and the green light came on, but we were clearly miles away from the DZ. I was able to stop the exit and keep the people in the door there till we were on the spot. Even in the door people can hear you. Then I'd appreciate your efforts 100 percent and probably buy you a case of beer for it. if you want to save another jumper's ass, that's awesome. Just let him know first.

It looks to me like he was able to only cutaway 1 of the risers by 1:19. you can see at 1:27 that he's trying again and there's still tension on one of the cables which means that riser is still attached to the container. But, at 1:49 it looks to me like youre right, the second one releases (there's clear movement that looks like tension being released). however, at just before 2:00 you can see the main come into frame. So it would seem that it took until 2:00 for the horseshoe to clear. Speaking of partial cutaways, I've seen an infinity rig that was having it's main cutaway for a reserve repack bind up permanently. the way this happened was that when we cut it away the hard housing kinda rebounded and got stuck in between the largest ring and the middle ring. We could not force the cutaway even w/ 2 of us pulling on it. I think there may still be pictures of it around somewhere. so, even if you have all the right stuff, I think it might be possible to still have a riser hang up. But, then again, there wasn't nearly the same tension on the main/rig as when someone is hanging under it. Ah hell, who knows :) It's all a crapshoot anyway.

Talk to a rigger before changing the size and/or material of a pilotchute. It may be that it's best to stay with what size/material he has and just replace it with something new. Not only that, but the slight hesitation may be the normal hesitation of the deployment sequence. How long is the hestiation? and yes, PCs (at least kill-line collapsibles) come with the bridle. Talk to the manufacturer of his container or talk to Cazer if a replacement is needed.

I've packed for 4 seasons now, and I find that a pullup cord is indeed much faster for sport rigs. However, Sigmas require a power tool of some sort. the pictures that are posted in this thread are very instructive- my experience has been exactly the same. If they're used properly they won't generally bend. However, if you're packing for money and bend a tool every 1500 pack jobs you're out 20-60 dollars at most a season. Since I make about 10 grand every 1500 packjobs, replacing a 20 dollar tool isn't that big of a deal. a fun jumper that uses one should almost never have to replace any of the models that are available, if they're used properly. there are VERY few professional skills that have such a low outlay of $ for tools as packing does.

I chose other: Explain All the things said here are great. In my experience, the person most trained to handle the situation took control of the situation very quickly and everyone stayed out of his way, but helped in other ways which haven't been mentioned here yet. untrained person on phone w/ 911 relaying his assessment to get info out as fast as possible (me) untrained person calling his wife and telling her where to meet her husband (manifest) and several upjumpers formed a human shield of sorts to block the scene from the packing area and manifest (he hooked it in about 40 ft in front of everyone) this was to the benefit of tandems and their families as well as to the injured-protecting his privacy (if you've been at a major injury you know what I'm talking about) there are things that can be done to help, but listen to who knows what they're doing and if you have no idea what to do, get the fuck out of the way. Better yet, take a walk to save yourself from having to see it. Blue Skies, Bryan Klindworth

I knew that a thread along this context was a matter of time coming. And I was actually thinking the Richmond boogie might be what brings the discussion out.. and I was right! (Damn rare thing in my neck of the woods) I worked for the person in question, and sky-gods in question, for 3 months and I have to say that I have never met a higher quality of people running/sponsoring a DZ. Ever. The particular Board member, (and if you're going to put his name out, the one thing that's the most important for reputation purposes to anyone that works in skydiving at least learn to spell it right) has given everything he can to the sport. While most DZMs take their salary home at night, he goes to the trailer park and lives there with the rest of us common laborers. He gives up paid jumps CONSTANTLY so that other staff can eek out a living. He does this b/c he knows he has his retirement to live off of and others don't. He is a hard ass, and can be an ass... I don't agree w/ him about a lot of things. But his integrity and commitment to making the sport better are SECOND TO NONE.. so while he's sleeping in his trailer tonight.. think about that. As far as the coincidence to the richmond boogie, most DZs run something for labor day, and this being a new DZ especially had reason to.. anything to get jumpers out and check things out, then make their own decision about where they want to jump. This sponsored DZ is also good for fun jumpers. on any given weekday the team trained jumps for fun jumpers were 12 bucks and one week they were 8. so money is not what these people care about. As far as the DZO saying he doesn't hire or fire people, that is commong practice in the *normal* business world-the guy with the biggest financial stake doesn't make those decisions. The corporate attitude you complain about provides the A/C that you know is legit, and you'll be on a turbine w/ 4 other people on board b/c of it. Hell, one weekend we were flying it with two people on board-fun jumpers. LAY OFF dude.

It'll only get worse! I've flown commercial about 20 times since I started jumping and I swear I need to get a script for valium.

LOL! this thread has been great! No, I don't play for the other team, I've realized that dating skydivers (female!!!) is BAD NEWS. been through 3 and will never date another. thanks all for the suggestions and the anecdotes. Bryan