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Well it seems Trump has come onboard swinging it looks like a wild ride. 1. Jan 6 ‘hostages’ pardoned including the known violent cases. 2. Security clearances pulled for the officials on the Hunter Biden laptop case who dissented. 3. Crypto currency grift couple of days before inauguration 4. Elon’s Nazi salutes at the inauguration
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Hi folks, Expect more of this with the advent of MAGA 2.0: Biden condemns 'sickening' neo-Nazi march in Ohio Looks like they are not as brave as they would want us to think: masked men shouting racial slurs and carrying swastika flags Jerry Baumchen
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Tucker Carlson, long sympathetic to far-right and white nationalist causes, actually went too far for conservatives with his gushing admiration over a Nazi historian. This week Carlson posted an interview with Darryl Cooper, who Carlson describes as "the best and most honest popular historian in the United States." His area of specialty - World War II. Some insights from this paragon of honesty and scholarship: "Churchill was the chief villain of World War II” Concentration camp deaths were just "a result of poor logistics in caring for starving refugees." It is not the Nazi's fault that "people who are surrendering or people they’re rounding up . . . ended up dead." In fact the gas chambers were humanitarian. "“Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to finish them off quickly now?” Hitler wanted peace but Churchill wanted war - Hitler "didn't want to fight" On his blog, Cooper posted a picture of Hitler on the left, and a picture of the opening pageant for the 2024 Olympics on the right, with the caption "this may be putting it too crudely for some, but the picture on the left is infinitely preferable to the picture on the right. Tucker asked probing questions during the interview, including this gem: "If Churchill is a hero, how come there are British girls begging for drugs on the streets of London today?” Musk, of course, posted "very interesting . . . worth watching." Now this is nothing new to Carlson who has previously sympathized with white supremacists. But it seems like even republicans have a limit on how much Nazism they will accept. Conservative radio host Erick Erickson: “Didn't expect Tucker Carlson to become an outlet for Nazi apologetics, but here we are." Senior director of the evangelical Dobson Culture Center: “I am trying to believe my ears, because on Tucker Carlson's respected podcast I just heard these immortal words: ‘I read about Churchill, and he strikes me as a psychopath. Who *on earth* is Darryl Cooper, and how did he get this platform?” Founder of the conservative outlet Compact Sohrab Ahmari: “I can't get over this. The claims made. The fact that Tucker saw fit to lend this guy an uncritical platform. The fact that Elon recommended the interview. This sector of the right is sinister. I'll stop saying ‘they've lost their minds.’ No, it's worse than that.” Babylon Bee owner Seth Dillon: “Tucker's guest: The Holocaust was an unfortunate logistical problem. The Nazis ran out of space for prisoners. Nobody wanted to kill all the Jews. Except maybe Churchill, that dastardly terrorist. Tucker: Finally, an honest historian willing to tell us the truth.” National Review writer Jonah Goldberg: “I’ve known Tucker for 30+ years. For most of that time, if I told him he’d become this guy one day, he’d have laughed, cursed me out, or punched me. This is just sad. It’s pathetic whether he’s doing it sincerely or as a grift.”
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I think you just crossed the line: no prayers for you! ***I like to think of the Soup Nazi saying that as he snatches a bible out of your hand.
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Get a clue, Billy... National Socialist German Worker's Party. That's what the NASDAP translates to. Too long even for Germans. They shortened it to Nazi. They were just as Lefty as the Soviet Commies they were fighting. Only difference was who was gonna keep the loot. Truth Hurts...
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Comparing political figures to Hitler has a long and ignominious history in the US, and has been overused so much that there's actually an Internet law about it; Godwin's Law states that if an online discussion goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will make a comparison to Hitler. Earlier, the philospher Leo Strauss had spoken of a very similar logical fallacy: reductio ad Hitlerum. The problem, of course, is that that means that if there IS a politician that proposes (for example) to exterminate a race of people, and people compare them validly to Hitler, no one takes any note of that. Just another Godwin attack. Comparisons of Trump to Hitler initially fell afoul of Godwin's law, because there really wasn't much similarity between a mealy-mouthed reality TV star and Hitler. Just another Godwin violation! Trump was something of a joke anyway. But lately the parallels have been getting scarier, and none other than Mike Godwin has written editorials stating "this time the comparison is valid." I just listened to an interview with Timothy Ryback, author of "Takeover: Hitler's Final Rise to Power." Ryback is an historian, and he wrote this book not by going through historical records, but by reading contemporary accounts of the time (newspapers, meeting minutes, pamphlets) so he could get a better sense of how this happened from the perspective of the people living through that time. He never mentions Trump in the book. But the parallels are astounding. While Hitler was building his power, he regularly used Polish immigrants (who were pouring across the border due to unrest in Poland) as a scare tactic. During this time, two Germans brutally tortured and murdered a few Polish immigrants; the Germans were sentenced to death for their crimes. Hitler decried that, and stated that if he were elected "never would a foreign life be put above a German" again. He made up bizarre stories to enrage and infuriate his party. He claimed that German children were being sold as sex slaves to foreign countries, and claimed that this was required by the Treaty of Versailles. (Pizza had not been invented yet, so no pizza places were involved.) His stated goal with this sort of disinformation was to "hollow out the middle" - remove the moderates and drive them to one of the two camps, so that he could frame his quest for power as a choice between only two options. Hitler regularly vowed to destroy democracy through democracy; he promised to use the mechanisms of democracy to destroy the right of the people to govern. He planned to give himself more power if he was appointed chancellor. He was very open about this, but the German people assumed he was just making speeches. "The soup is hotter during the cooking than during the eating" was a popular German phrase, indicating they thought that Hitler would calm down once he was in power. It is noteworthy that he almost didn't make it to the Chancellorship. Due to his profligate spending and his lack of respect for the law, he was often in court in the years leading up to his chancellorship. He didn't mind this; he used the courtroom as a pulpit, and one of his fellow Nazis once said that every time Hitler went to court he got another 1000 votes. The justice system was closing in on him, for his crimes, his unpaid debts and for his refusal to pay taxes. His only chance to avoid jail was to do what he did - become chancellor and suspend civil rights and the justice system. His campaign was based largely on vengeance - against the Treaty of Versailles, against the Communists, against Hindenberg and his other perceived enemies. Even his own people became enemies once they crossed him, or told him that maybe perhaps he was being a little racist. "Once I'm in power, heads will roll," he told several of his supporters. And roll they did. Hitler could not get any support with just the Nationalist party behind him, so he allied with the Socialists (and specifically with socialist leader Gregor Strasser) to get a larger percentage of the electorate. Even with that, the best he ever did was 37% of the vote. He publicly supported the Socialists but privately detested them. Strasser was a big socialist - an anti-capitalist polemic of his caused Hitler to repudiate him at the 1926 Bamberg Conference. He was briefly elected to the vice-chancellor position while Hitler was rising to power, but retired when he could no longer stomach the changing Nazi goals. Then, in 1934, Hitler had Strasser arrested and executed for being a socialist. He could not do this alone, of course. Maintaining his bizarre claims of sex slavery and victimhood required a media apparatus. And that came in the form of Alfred Hugenberg, a media mogul who had his sights on world domination as well. At first Hugenberg and Hitler couldn't stand each other, but once Hugenberg realized that Hitler was rising in power, he allied himself with him. At that point Hugenberg owned the Scherl publishing house, the news agency Telegraphen-Union, several newspapers and the Universum-Film-AG (Ufa), a major film producer. This let him churn out not only news about the evil Polish immigrants and the child sex slavery thing, but also publish glowing articles about "Hitler at home" "Hitler with children" and most importantly "Hitler as a victim of the evil Europeans." This went a long way towards steering public perception about Hitler. Hitler took every opportunity to "gum up the works" of government when he could through his position as one of the leaders of the Nazi party. The worst provisions of the Versailles Treaty were due to end in two years, and there was a movement to delay the passage of new laws until that time, so that they would be passed in a less reactionary environment. Hitler did everything he could to push as many new laws through as possible, often with conflicting goals that he could then use them to show how dysfunctional government was. The Nazi party, according to Ryback, thrived on political chaos and economic despair, and worked hard to provide that environment. The president at the time - Otto Hindenberg - was elderly, and Hitler's media apparatus spent quite a bit of time attacking him for being senile, doddering, and sleepy. Hitler could not attack him directly since he still needed his support. A month after he was appointed Chancellor, there was a fire at the Reichstag, the seat of government for Germany at the time. When police arrived, they found Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch council communist, leaving the building. The fire chief, however, saw Nazis fleeing the fire, and found evidence that they had in fact started the fire. The fire chief was then arrested and assassinated by the Gestapo. Hitler used this "attack by the Communists" to issue the Fire Decree which suspended civil liberties in Germany and allowed Hitler to start eliminating his political opposition. And of course there are the growing similarities in their speeches. Trump speaks of "poisoning the blood" of America with immigrants; Hitler spoke of "The rats that poison our body-politic gnaw from the hearts and memories of the broad masses" and that "this poison was allowed to enter the national bloodstream and infect public life without the Government taking any effectual measures to master the course of the disease." Trump talks about how "we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country" - and Hitler said he "the right to eliminate millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin." Trump: "The threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous and grave than the threat from within. Our threat is from within." Hitler: "Never in our history have we been conquered by the strength of our outside enemies but only through our own failings and the enemy in our own camp." Finally, in a speech in 1940, Hitler said that the various German political factions could be "blended into one strong new idea to carry new strength which would make Germany great again." It's not funny any more.
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Lets pile up a scale of when who said what and see which side fills up with NAZI calliing.
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Sure, Trump and his surrogates calling the democrats fascists, Nazis and totalitarians was all I heard from them too. So why were you making it a liberal media thing? But hey, if you disagree with me, feel free to just call me a Nazi like Trump would.
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Hard left? Ha. At least I'm not a Nazi. One more time. I heard him say the words live on TV. I understood the context. The "Protestors" were Nazis & KKK. Or their sympathizers. There WERE NOT ANY 'protestors' who weren't. There were TWO SIDES. Nazi & KKK. Antifa protestors.
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In 1931, American journalist Dorothy Thompson interviewed Hitler. She thought little of him; a not very intelligent man with an obviously evil plan. The German people would not be fooled, she decided. “Imagine a would-be dictator setting out to persuade a sovereign people to vote away their rights!” she wrote, bemused by his foolishness. She was expelled by 1935, “in light of your numerous anti-German publications." She had become the enemy; the press. In 1937, she wrote about her experiences in Germany: “No people ever recognize their dictator in advance…. He always represents himself as the instrument for expressing the Incorporated National Will. When Americans think of dictators they always think of some foreign model. If anyone turned up here in a fur hat, boots and a grim look he would be recognized and shunned…. But when our dictator turns up, you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American.” In 1941 it became clear that the US would have to enter the war at some point - and the Nazis were the people we would be fighting. But how could the sensible, rational Germans she knew from her time in Berlin turn into Nazis? Who does that? “It is an interesting and somewhat macabre parlor game to play at a large gathering of one’s acquaintances: to speculate who in a showdown would go Nazi,” she wrote. “By now, I think I know. I have gone through the experience many times—in Germany, in Austria, and in France. I have come to know the types: the born Nazis, the Nazis whom democracy itself has created, the certain-to-be fellow-travelers. And I also know those who never, under any conceivable circumstances, would become Nazis . . . . .Kind, good, happy, gentlemanly, secure people never go Nazi. But the frustrated and humiliated intellectual, the rich and scared speculator, the spoiled son, the labor tyrant, the fellow who has achieved success by smelling the winds of success—they would all go Nazi in a crisis. Those who haven’t anything in them to tell them what they like and what they don’t—whether it is breeding, or happiness, or wisdom, or a code, however old-fashioned or however modern - go Nazi.” Later that year she observed that the man Hitler no longer really mattered; it was what he represented, the chance to save Germans and make Germany great again. “Chancellor Hitler is no longer a man, he is a religion. My offense was to think that Hitler is just an ordinary man, after all. That is a crime against the reigning cult in Germany, which says Mr. Hitler is a Messiah sent by God to save the German people…. To question this mystic mission is so heinous that, if you are a German, you can be sent to jail. I, fortunately, am an American, so I merely was sent to Paris. Worse things can happen….” (parts taken from Heather Richardson Cox's latest column)
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You are playing semantics arguments like this: A: I love holding my straightened right arm with hand extended at an upwards angle, wearing a brown shirt, while shouting support for my leader. B: A says he loves being a Nazi A: No, I never said I loved being a Nazi, why don't you go by what I actually said.....
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What makes you say that? Let's look at reality vs just one of your claims here: On 2 May 1933, Nazis stormtroopers raided trade union buildings throughout Germany. Union leaders were abducted, imprisoned, and tortured. And union assets and properties were seized. Independent trade unions were replaced with a Nazi-controlled German Labour Front, which served as a propaganda tool for the regime and its hate-filled ideology. The Nazi ban on free trade unions not only deprived workers of collective bargaining and representation, it also removed a bastion of democracy and freedom that stood in the way of the Nazis’ total control over German society. It was an early step in their rule of terror and antisemitism. https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/ninety-years-nazi-ban-free-trade-unions-lessons-remain-relevant-us-today It would seem like you don't have the first clue about politics or history. I mean for fuck's sake, it's even in Niemoller's poem - "Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist" What possessed you to write something so ignorant and so wrong?
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Medical advances were accomplished by the Nazis at the expense of Jews. Did you support the Nazi cause? Do you realize how f-ing stupid your comparison was?
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No thanks. I'm gonna pass. https://www.dropzone.com/search/?q=nazi&quick=1
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Let's try something else from this election, not something that an indeterminate Roosevelt might have said 100 years ago. Luke Meyer was Trump’s regional field director for western Pennsylvania. Online, he was the white nationalist Alberto Barbarossa and a co-host of Richard Spencer’s podcast. A Trump campaign staffer was unmasked as a neo-Nazi, virulent white supremacist - and after being outed confirmed that all the things in Trump's speeches that sounded a bit Nazi were put there by other Nazis. "“Like the hydra, you can cut off my head and hold it up for the world to see, but two more will quietly appear and be working in the shadows,” Meyer wrote. “Slating Trump to speak at [Madison Square Garden], putting ‘poisoning the blood’ in his speeches, setting up Odal runes at CPAC, etc. In a few years, one of those groypers [white supremacists] might even quietly bring me back in, with a stern warning for me to ‘be more careful next time.’” And Brent is the only person in the room still struggling to figure out why he wasn't working for Harris.
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Trump said that people attending a rally dedicated to preserving the public celebration of men who fought to maintain slavery, which was organised by white supremacists, and who decided to continue taking part when their own side was clearly littered with actual swastikas, Klansmen and various other Neo-Nazi paraphernalia, were very fine people. You don’t think that’s fucking outrageous?
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Ah! So the sample pool is the whole world! In that case, Trumpism is _definitely_ extremism; most of the Western world sees it as such. Nope. Such people see extremism as an extreme of a formerly moderate position (such as conservatism.) For example, concentration camps for illegal aliens. Did you live in Nazi Germany under Hitler? No? Then where did you get your views on what that was like? Hogan's Heroes? FOX News? Perhaps a more authoritative source like Alex Jones? Let's see what actual survivors of Hitler's regime say: Henry Oster lived in Germany during Hitler's regime: "Make America Great Again . . . sound a bit too much like Germany must rise again. Now, he doesn’t yell and scream like Hitler did. But the insults, the demeaning other candidates, holding himself obviously as being superior … has a great similarity.” Zeev Hod lost his father to a labor camp while he was living in Germany. Is he concerned about Trump's likeness to Hitler? "Not only has my concern not dissipated, it’s grown much stronger. Again, 1933’s Germany and America today are starkly different. And, contrary to common belief, history does not repeat itself. Not the way people think. The world, as a general rule, moves forward. Enough has changed that I don’t believe another Holocaust is imminent. But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Hitler. Like Hitler, Trump was able to tap into voter anger. His supporters believe they’re being denied the American dream because of globalization. And that’s exactly what Hitler was able to tap into back in the 1930s. Hitler went after the Jews, while Trump is zeroing in on Mexican immigrants and Muslims" But what do they know, eh? You listened to Alex Jones.
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Maybe if you taxed a few of your billionaires and provided health care to people, you wouldn't have to sound like a Nazi advocating for mass encampment of people you don't like......
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Again, Musk isn't Nostradamus. Buying Twitter was basically the equivalent of a drunk bet that he desperately tried to welch on until the courts forced him to honour it. It's great that you think allowing Silicon Valley elites to buy power is a positive feature of a Trump government though. Most of your MAGA fellows will claim that's exactly what they stand against. Cute gif by the way. I suppose the only dfference with X now is that you're trapped in there with a bunch of neo-Nazi farts, and farts that haven't had their measles vaccines?
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I’m not sure I’m saying they are equivalent. I’m left leaning and more likely to agree with the views of the left. A 12 month jail sentence for a nazi salute is extreme. Walking a very fine line, and not entirely confident I can communicate this correctly. But amplifying a minority to place them on a pedestal is an extreme position. Absolutely vulnerable groups should be treated with respect and dignity and not discriminated against. The best example I can think of is transgender people in sport. They should not be discriminated against, but when biological women are upstaged by a transgender person (for example swimming) I have a problem. There are shades of grey though. A top Aussie skydiver is transgender and holds world records. Her biological makeup doesn’t give her an unfair advantage in skydiving, so I don’t have a problem. I believe sexuality should be kept out of the workplace. When organisations decorate with rainbows and gay pride symbols on gay pride day I have an issue with it. Admittedly my workplace also does international women’s day and the non gender based mental health days. Yesterday was apparently International men’s day and not a peep. Yet there is a crisis in young men (my son’s best friend took his life last Wednesday at 19 years old. It’s the 5th suicide in 6 years among my son’s friends.
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That is the issue though. What is the extreme left position and what is the nazi extremist position? Are they really equally extreme? Is wanting to tax billionaires so society can have more the same as wanting to kill specific races? Is caring about the LGBTQ community the same as wanting to take their rights away? What in your mind makes these extremist positions equivalent?
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The rise of extremism is a global problem. I would agree that there is a radical left that is very vocal and influences policy (big problem here in Australia), By the same token the radical right is every bit as vocal and influences policy. If the majority of a population become extremists, I would argue that is still the case. You’re from South Africa originally? I’m from Zimbabwe and I think it’s fair to say that the mainstream white culture was extremely racist, by world standards. That didn’t make it any less of an extreme view. Similarly examples from Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia etc. We could argue over who is to blame and which side is simply reacting to the excesses of the other. Here in Aus it is clear that currently the extreme left is driving a backlash from neo nazi extremists.
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All white supremacists shouting at a rally = Nazi is not the same as all liberals = violent Antifa.
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And just like that... Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski meet with Trump at Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring, just a few days after the other Joe (wearing his November 2020 smile) invited Trump to the White House. Who would have guessed they would warm up to a nazi so fast? Anthony Rota did not fare as well.
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Some of them get it -- Sullivan Before the Election
gowlerk replied to base698's topic in Speakers Corner
I would agree with you on that. The law would seem to be an ineffective knee jerk reaction. I have always considered Oz to be very much a nanny state on many issues. A quick search turns up a story in Canadian media about the first man reaching martyr status under this law. https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/self-described-nazi-becomes-first-person-jailed-in-australia-for-performing-outlawed-salute-1.7102769
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