The JVX with sail material...

[CanopyPiloting 0]

From the forums at www.canopypiloting.com

DAEDALUS CANOPIES USA does not have an official demo program but many JVX pilots including myself are more than eager to allow other pilots to try them out. There will be 6-8 JVXs at the 2006 PST Swoop Festival show. The sail material adds a huge performance in many different ways. I am also very confident that other parachute companies will offer sail material as an option in the future. As a matter of fact, I recently saw a prototype canopy from another major parachute manufacture with sail material. This company did not design a new canopy but only added the sail material to one of their existing designs. Can you also believe this canopy did not have stabilizers, who would have thought? Next thing you know we are going to start seeing..........................back to the issue on sail material.

The sail material is thicker and more rigid than standard ZP. Sail material helps the canopy hold its shape better which has a significant advantage during the swoop. In addition, the sail material lasts much longer than standard ZP. In fact, during our testing a three year old JVX made of sail material was more rigid and had less porosity than a brand new canopy made of ZP! This is huge advantage if you are a non sponsored pilot that can't afford to purchase a new canopy every year. There is a reason why factory pilots get multiple new canopies for competition each year.

The openings on Daedalus canopies are not like Icarus canopies VX. Yes, both these companies are owned by same engineer but the JVX was designed to open WAY better than a VX. There is very little difference (if any) between the openings of a JVX will sail material and ZP. If you come to the PST Swoop Festival you can check them out for yourself or just ask some of the competition pilots like Clint Clawson, Charles Bryan, Duane Hall, Chuck Owen, Stuart Schoenfeld, Mark Shimmell, Paul Rossouw (owns 3 JVXs), Nick Batsch, Mike Wittenburg, Bundy Taylor, Steve Armstrong, Keith Colwick, Greg Chopik, Jonathan King and Jim Moss just to name a few. We even have freefly teams like TEAM WICKED LIQUID www.teamwickedliquid.com that fly JVXs on every jump.

The main disadvantage of a JVX with sail material is the added pack volume. If you don't have a large rig or plan to get a larger rig then you may want to stick with a JVX made of standard ZP. A JVX 85 made of sail material pack about the size as a conventional 135-150. If you’re going to use the JVX strictly for competition swooping and you have a larger rig then I would consider a JVX with sail material. If you are going to use your JVX for everyday jumping and have a small rig than stick with standard ZP. The JVX that is available for purchase from DAEDALUS CANOPIES USA is the same canopy used by our factory guys. Other parachute companies sell a stock version of their high performance canopy and reserve the modified wing for their factory guys only. You should have the best or at least a choice of the latest options and materials….right?

The JVX comes in custom colors, competition trim and two HMA line sets on delivery. Delivery times during the summer months are around 4-6 weeks and in the winter months they are around 8-12 weeks. The factory is in New Zealand so our winter is their summer and so on.

All additional questions should go through DAEDALUS CANOPIES USA support@daedaluscanopies.com

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[deathtrap 0]

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As a matter of fact, I recently saw a prototype canopy from another major parachute manufacture with sail material. This company did not design a new canopy but only added the sail material to one of their existing designs. Can you also believe this canopy did not have stabilizers, who would have thought?

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who's that?

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The JVX that is available for purchase from DAEDALUS CANOPIES USA is the same canopy used by our factory guys (AKA- Test Jumpers...). Other parachute companies sell a stock version of their high performance canopy and reserve the modified wing for their factory guys only.

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Now you too can be a test jumper, for only about $3000!!!

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Now you too can be a test jumper, for only about $3000

haha,

the test jumping has been completed to the point where it is marketable.

but why would you stop there?

[Spizzzarko 0]

hey mark,

How does this thing compare to an equal size velocity? I just got a velo 96 with HMA, and there is a jvx 96 with hma up here that I can jump. I want to try both out this weekend, but if you have any insight in the JVX compared to a velo that would be great.

Grant

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the JVX isnt as steep as the velo, and it's arc is longer. "further back" "flatter". the jvx has a little oversteer wich you will be used to in a few jumps. "once it starts to turn it keeps going untill you stop it." the riser pressure is a little higher on the JVX, but not alot. the rear riser pressure is a little less than a velo, but it doesnt react to rear input as quick as the velo, but more than the vx. the front and rear riser pressure are fairly even.

you will notice on the JVX that it uses more of the wing in rear riser flight. "pull down the rears and watch where the canopy bends. it is close to the nose". but since the recovery arch is longer and flatter, it wont dig as quickly out on rears as a velo, but it is less drag in rear riser flight.

one of the biggest things you will notice is the amout of speed the JVX gets compared to the velo, it is quite noticable, and the speed takes quite a bit longer to degenerate also, im thinking this is because it has less drag than a velo due to its thinness. it is obviously a nigher aspect ratiop wing also, but I don't know what that aspect ratio is.

it also isnt as "twitchy" as a velo, and doesnt "breath" as much.

I really like my velo, I also like the VX, but I really really like the JVX.

[Spizzzarko 0]

I'm going to see if I can do 6 alternating jumps. 3 on the 96 velocity, and 3 on the 96 jvx with sail material. I will post my findings on Monday or Tuesday.

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I'm going to see if I can do 6 alternating jumps. 3 on the 96 velocity, and 3 on the 96 jvx with sail material. I will post my findings on Monday or Tuesday.

here is what i tell people, and im thinking other jvx polots will agree.

"it flies like a 9 cell velo with less drag."

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[Spizzzarko 0]

Cool. I'm doing a 450 on my veloctiy at about 850'+ for the turn altitude. I'm going to try and keep all the variables the same when I'm comparing the canopies. What do you recomend to do for the openings, and how does it open? Is it like a VX or like a velocity? How about subterminal compared to terminal?

Grant

[marks 0]

i have found that if you pack the JVX 4 rolled into one and stuffed into center. on both sides it opens nice.

as long as you make sure the slider is all the way on the stops, "front and rear are uneven due to no stabilizers and the slider stop being on the brake line." make sure they stay down when you lay it down. and "quarter" the slider well, with the front "nose" side of the slider exposed in front of the nose and spread open.

ask brandi, I tought her how to pack a while back. she knows how i like it.

if you have line twist, it doesnt spin like a velo, well it will but it doesnt start flinging you right away, and my lineover last weekend wasnt bad either.

packing is inportant with the JVX, you will get nice openings with carefull packing, you cant just throw it together like you can a velo.]

don't try to "fly" the opening, just let it be, and don't be moving forward "from a track".

[marks 0]

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Cool. I'm doing a 450 on my veloctiy at about 850'+ for the turn altitude. I'm going to try and keep all the variables the same when I'm comparing the canopies. What do you recomend to do for the openings, and how does it open? Is it like a VX or like a velocity? How about subterminal compared to terminal?

Grant

you can do your turns at about the same altitude, but slightly further back with the JVX.

but if your digging with rears out of the turn on a velo, turn higher with the JVX.

the VX and the velo's openings are a little bit more predictable than the JVX. not heading and stuff, but if not packed carefull with the slider like i said, it CAN spank you. packing is the key, i think mainly because of the uneven slider stops.

[CanopyPiloting 0]

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I'm going to see if I can do 6 alternating jumps. 3 on the 96 velocity, and 3 on the 96 jvx with sail material. I will post my findings on Monday or Tuesday.

Hey Grant, I had to reschedule my canopy seminars in MA so I will be at the Mile Hi Swoop Park this weekend when your jumping the JVX. I'll see you then you lucky devil...

[Spizzzarko 0]

Cool man. I look forward to it. I think having the 96 velo with the HMA can make as equal a comparison as possible, and I'm going into it with as much of an unbiased opinion as possible. The only thing that I can see being biased would be the fact that I have flown the velocity exclusively for several hundred jumps. I did have 98 VX for awhile though, so I'm sure it will come back to me.

Grant

[Spizzzarko 0]

Thanks for teh info Mark.

[ntacfreefly 0]

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it doesnt spin like a velo

pretty good info for the most part Mark, except that sentence. That's bs. The velo doesn't spin any more or less than any of the others out there. In fact, every time I'd had linetwists it's flown straight and level.

In fact if this:

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the jvx has a little oversteer wich you will be used to in a few jumps.

is true then it is MORE susceptible to spinning than the other canopies.

Bar that point of contention, it's been an interesting read and I'm looking forward to hearing what Grant has to say.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

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Ian, in my experiance, an eliptical 9 cell takes longer to spin that a 7 cell. not sayuing it wont, but it takes longer to speed up..

I HAVE experianced this on a VX and a JVX. and the velo would sometimes fly straight and level, but sometimes you would be spining on your back above the canopy instantly.

the JVX just takes longer to get to that point that is all im trying to say.

I have had linetwist on it, and am able to fix it before it gets too bad, on the velo it sometimes would just be like that instantly.

im sure any VX pilot out there that also has VELO experiance will tell you much of the same thing.

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the jvx has a little oversteer wich you will be used to in a few jumps.

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is true then it is MORE susceptible to spinning than the other canopies.

nope, I dont think you understand what im getting at, they are two very different things.

and also, this is just MY observations, not something that others think. but i got quite a few jumps on a VELO, VX, and JVX.

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here is a pic of one of the first JVX's ever made, maybe the first.

you can see im HEAVY in the rears on the right side of it, but look how far foward the crease in the wing is. it is even more far forward when you have lighter rear inputs.

you might have to zoom the pic to see it,

note also, this JVX is pretty worn out.

[Spizzzarko 0]

I'm sure I will get line twists on both as I'm a shitty packer, and I can't pull stable (according to Joe Bennett, but what the hell does he know he won't even show his face back here in Colorado because of his shaming from last year).

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the jvx has a little oversteer wich you will be used to in a few jumps.

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is true then it is MORE susceptible to spinning than the other canopies.

I just thought of something, maybee this will help explain it better,

remember I told you it is harder to get the JVX to turn, or start turning? but then you have to add input too stop it from turning.

it takes longer, or it is "harder" to start the turn, even with line twist, it takes longer before it starts to spin. this delay gives you time to get out of them.

maybe that makes more sense.

of course if it does start to go, then it will spin. then once your out, you got to stop the turn. but that is true with a velo also..

does that make more sense?

[ntacfreefly 0]

Far better way of explaining what you mean. Thanks

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[superstu 0]

grant, ian and i did the team speed together last PST event and we were both loaded about the same (i might have been heavier) and we flew pretty well together. i was leading most of the time and the only thing ian said was that he had a hard time keeping up with me if i got aerodynamic. when we went into full flight together i might have been out driving him just a little bit too. ian is what i said pretty much correct? you had a better view of it than i did.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm going to try and keep all the variables the same when I'm comparing the canopies.

Are you going to be jumping an RDS with both canopies? If no, it won't be a fare comparision if your Velo has one and the the JVX doesn't (or visa-versa). If yes, where did you get the RDS for the JVX? Mel told me to hold off of getting an RDS for the JVX until after his visits the New Zealand folks some time later this year.

Also, I hope to confirm this later this coming weekend, but I'm going to lay out my JVX 96 on top of my Velo 103 to see which one is bigger. It sounds like the JVX is measured different and is larger than the advertized size (or is it that the Velo is smaller than it's size). I'm only saying all of this as I no longer know what to think about my wingloading on both canopies.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

I saw you guys come in twice on the team speed. It looked to me that the JVX was out driving Ian quite a bit when you guys were coming in on base. After the turn it looked like Ian really sunk out on his Velo compared to you. It probably is what Mark was saying about having to set up further back on the entry gates. It also seemed as if the guys on teh JVX were able to get a little more into the corner before giving any input than the Velo guys were able to, but I think that is because the velocity doesn't really want to recover. When I had my 98 VX, it really wanted to recover, but not as bad as my 104 FX wanted to recover at the time. I really enjoyed the VX after it opened, but now that I know the velocity I am enjoying it. I don't three jumps on any canopy is enough to really make an informed decision, but I will write up what I find out. Who knows my opinions may be completely different that any of yours, but I'm going to be as unbiased as possible.

[ntacfreefly 0]

Stu,

Pretty much accurate. Here are my observations on how the flying together and turns went.

Full flight. Same speed with the velocity being trimmed a teeny bit steeper so I had to use rears to stay up with you BUT that slowed me down so if you weren't on toggles to slow down more than my rears I had a hard time catching you. Didn't lose ground but couldn't make it up either.

Turn altitude - identical. I was on level and in the power with you every time.

Recovery arc - the JVX lost as much altitude but gained more forward drive during the recovery, so, for Stu and I to hit the gates at the same time I had to be close to the gate than him. Once plained out the JVX did not accelerate away from me, nor did I accelerate away from it. Both canopies covered about the same amount of distance and speed IMO.

That's my impression as the 'follower' on TS.

Edit: Grant, yeah I was having a hard time cause the little fucker kept balling up and being small when I was trying to catch him !!!
Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[Spizzzarko 0]

Yea! That's pretty much what I meant about STU flying away on the recovery. Thanks again for letting me jump your 90. It was fun.

Steve,

I will remove the slider on both canopies, but I may not have the bag and pilot chute come off. We will see though. If I can take the bag and pilot chute off I would prefer that, as that is how I have been jumping my 103 all season, and that is how I jumped the PD demo 96 the other weekend, and Ian's 90 velo too.